Starlink

[4wanderingeyes]

From my understanding, starlinks biggest disadvantage aside from price, is that it actively tracks the sats across the sky so you have to get the dish above the tree line or a relatively open 360 view of the sky for consistent signal otherwise there can be interruptions.

You need a clear view of the north-north east sky. Even small obstruction can cause short outages of a second or 2.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Most applications don't need good response times. Some VPNs don't like the long delay of satellite, but they may tolerate LEO delays. For most applications Starlink will be fine. We do have some fixed wireless in our area. They put towers on a mountain and can cover pretty much cover a valley and they use repeaters to extend it. It is not as expensive as satellite and doesn't have the response time issue. I was just starting to look into it when the local power coop announced the fiber rollout. It took about 2 years to hit us. I suffered with a Verizon hot spot with an external antenna in the mean time. We got it this past winter. We love it. It is less expensive an better than my Verizon FIOS in the suburb. I have 50mbs FIOS there. It is more than enough for everything I do and to stream to one TV. At the new place, I bought 100mbs business service. I could have had a gigabit/sec for the same price if I had bought residential service. I wanted a fixed IP and full control of the router and they don't offer that with their residential service.

Thanks,

Jack

I have done a lot of research with Starlink over the past year. If you have a clear view to thte north-north east, you shouldnt get any drop outs. The LEO satellites send signal at the speed of light, so the time from the satellite to your house isnt the problem, it is the lack of ground stations, and the distance between ground stations. They have been sending up new laser satellites that will send the info between satellites, and that will eliminate the need for many ground stations. But they are waiting for government approval to turn them on. Once they do turn them on, ping and jitter will be as fast, or faster then fiber, because light travels in space (vacuum) faster then in fiber. So the transfer of information through lasers will speed Starlink up a lot. They have also been adding ground stations as well, but they wont need as many once the government allows them to turn on the lasers to transfer the info in space. They were hoping for approval by July, but the Biden administration is not an Elon fan, so it may be a couple more years before they are allowed to turn them on. In the mean time, they are adding more ground stations, and new laser satellites.

 

[yoderjac]

I have done a lot of research with Starlink over the past year. If you have a clear view to thte north-north east, you shouldnt get any drop outs. The LEO satellites send signal at the speed of light, so the time from the satellite to your house isnt the problem, it is the lack of ground stations, and the distance between ground stations. They have been sending up new laser satellites that will send the info between satellites, and that will eliminate the need for many ground stations. But they are waiting for government approval to turn them on. Once they do turn them on, ping and jitter will be as fast, or faster then fiber, because light travels in space (vacuum) faster then in fiber. So the transfer of information through lasers will speed Starlink up a lot. They have also been adding ground stations as well, but they wont need as many once the government allows them to turn on the lasers to transfer the info in space. They were hoping for approval by July, but the Biden administration is not an Elon fan, so it may be a couple more years before they are allowed to turn them on. In the mean time, they are adding more ground stations, and new laser satellites.

I believe they use KU band. Here is an older thread but it has some useful information. It has some nice graphics in the thread for those unfamiliar. https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1467982

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I think that is all old info, that is from version 0 satellights, they were never in public use, and none of them are in service anymore. The laser satellites are version 2, which are the ones that have been going up for about a year now. The ones that went up prior to that were version 1, no laser on them.

For the most part, people are seeing 20-80ms ping now.

 

[yoderjac]

I think that is all old info, that is from version 0 satellights, they were never in public use, and none of them are in service anymore. The laser satellites are version 2, which are the ones that have been going up for about a year now. The ones that went up prior to that were version 1, no laser on them.

For the most part, people are seeing 20-80ms ping now.

Yes, it is an old thread. I thought it might be useful for folks to understand the basic issues. Optical communication has its own issues. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I presume they are using a mix of RF and laser as weather can be a big factor for optical.

 

[chickenlittle]

I've had a deposit on Starlink since Feb 2021 for a system for my parents. The first Starlink delivery forecast was late 2021. That was delayed last fall to "mid 2022". I've not heard anything more about when we could receive one. Their area on the service map is currently listed as "waitlist/at capacity/Expanding 2023".

The best land service my parents can get is Verizon DSL which varies from unusable to close to 1GB/s. ATT Wireless can be better depending on location in the house so I've looked at ways to improve that despite data caps.

Starlink offered a month ago to sell the RV system for another $25/month and allow it to be used in "at capacity" areas but no guarantee for service level. I am tempted to get the RV system and resell iy when the residential starlink system arrives. But I have no idea if the RV system would ship if I pull the trigger. Even without the service guarantee, I'd expect service level that is 20-100 times better than current DSL. Would make it possible for me to work remotely there this summer while the kids run around and enjoy time with their grandparents.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I have a buddy who is using Starlink up and down the Atlantic Coast where he is sailing. He is very happy with it.

I know people are happy with the no data caps now. I wouldn't plan on those always being around, though. Starlink is trying to increase growth in subscribers and will eventually need to reign in costs. I'm not going to complain because I am loving the competition into the marketplace for ISPs.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Mine is suppose to show up Monday, but I will have to remove a couple trees for a clear vision. I will keep everyone posted on how it works.

 

[MadMadHoosier]

While I have a clear view of the sky at my Western Kentucky install, I have yet to see the dish move from it’s initial aim point - which is almost straight up. I realize it is doing some phase-array aiming, but depending on your location, some lower elevation trees might not really come into play.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I installed and hooked up the Starlink dish yesterday evening, in the first 24 hours, it has been pretty decent. They say it takes about 12 hours before it figures out if there are any obstructions, I have very little obstructions, less then 2%. I have had down loads speeds between 225-48, and upload speeds from 7-45. Ping from 18-120. Jitter has been good except during a heavy storm we had this morning. And of course I was on a live meeting during that time.

I have been getting short drop outs about 2-5 seconds every couple hours. I hope that works it’s way out, because that can mess up a live video conference. But compared to what I had before, it blows it away.

I have been tethering my phone to my laptop for regular internet, am with 35gb per month, with a hard cap, it shuts off at 35. I also have an ATT hotspot, it is more stable, but I only get 15gb, I have reserved it for live meetings. A couple meetings a month and it uses it all. So far I am happy, but it has some room for improvement.

 

[yoderjac]

I installed and hooked up the Starlink dish yesterday evening, in the first 24 hours, it has been pretty decent. They say it takes about 12 hours before it figures out if there are any obstructions, I have very little obstructions, less then 2%. I have had down loads speeds between 225-48, and upload speeds from 7-45. Ping from 18-120. Jitter has been good except during a heavy storm we had this morning. And of course I was on a live meeting during that time.

I have been getting short drop outs about 2-5 seconds every couple hours. I hope that works it’s way out, because that can mess up a live video conference. But compared to what I had before, it blows it away.

I have been tethering my phone to my laptop for regular internet, am with 35gb per month, with a hard cap, it shuts off at 35. I also have an ATT hotspot, it is more stable, but I only get 15gb, I have reserved it for live meetings. A couple meetings a month and it uses it all. So far I am happy, but it has some room for improvement.

Glad its working for you. Your performance description is about what I would expect from that technology. Keep us posted and you use it more.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

The statistic report for the last 12 hours is showing just 1 drop out over 2 seconds, which was 5 seconds long. My server never noticed it. I can live with that. I streamed a live baseball game last night in 4K, with no buffering. I wanted to load the system and see if it would drop out, it didn’t. So an improvement already, over the previous 12 hours. I have a couple hour live meeting tomorrow morning, that will be another good test.

Living in the sticks, literally, and having to jump through so many hoops to have a semi functional internet, something as simple as being able to have computers always connected to the internet, just seems like such a game changer.

The fact that there is no data cap, and I won’t need to plan out all my internet use for the month, is unbelievable.

Before, when I had to have live meetings, I would need to shut video off and just have audio at times, so it wouldn’t use all the available data.

Small things in life I am sure for some, but a game changer for me.

 

[buckdeer1]

Guess if it's all you got but I think I will stick to my fiber

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Guess if it's all you got but I think I will stick to my fiber

This is the point, Starlink is made for rural people with no other options, not for people who can get fiber, or cable internet.

I have no phone lines going to my area, no fiber, or plans for it, the closest cell tower is about 7 miles away, and without a Weboost cell booster, I get 1 bar outside, and nothing inside. My only option was Hughsnet, or Viasat. Luckily with the Weboost it increased my cell reception enough where I could get some signal indoors, but on weekends, or holidays, the bandwidth is horrible.

Starlink is a game changer for people like me. I had Hughsnet, with download speeds up to 4mb, until they throttle you down to .5mb, and with ping speeds of 250-650ms, and paying $150-165 per month, it really was worthless. I had to laugh at their low data caps of 25gb per month, because it was practically impossible to reach them, because the internet wouldn’t load, and if it did, it was so slow, that you forgot what you had to look up, long before the page loaded. Starlink so far has been awesome!

 

[yoderjac]

Guess if it's all you got but I think I will stick to my fiber

It will never compete with fiber and was not designed to do that at all. The physics simply don't allow for that. Fiber already has greater benefits at a lower cost. When you can't get fiber, the options are fairly bleak. While quite expensive, this seems like a reasonable option for some.

 

[buckdeer1]

Problem is that companies like ATT and what was Sprint have collected money all these years and didn't put any back while the smaller independent companies are spending money to do fiber in rural areas.You might want to double check to see if you have any close enough.Alot of them have fiber to nodes then copper to the home,you can't get super speeds but up to 25Mbs.You can google fcc broadband map and get a rough idea.As it's like most government projects not very accurate.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Problem is that companies like ATT and what was Sprint have collected money all these years and didn't put any back while the smaller independent companies are spending money to do fiber in rural areas.You might want to double check to see if you have any close enough.Alot of them have fiber to nodes then copper to the home,you can't get super speeds but up to 25Mbs.You can google fcc broadband map and get a rough idea.As it's like most government projects not very accurate.

There is fiber about 7 miles away, where the cell towers are. The road I live on has 3 other houses, and a couple hunting cabins. Up until about 10 years ago, we didn’t even have electricity on this road. There is no other lines ran down this road. I couldn’t even get the phone company to run a line here. They told me it was too far from their main line, and they couldn’t garuntee it would be without issues. They said it wasn’t worth them running it. I really don’t foresee fiber anytime soon.

I have been averaging speeds of about 80 down/15 up, ping 90. I will take that! Also no data cap.

 

[buckdeer1]

Most companies except att are what is called carriers of last resort which basically means they get a subsidy to to serve high cost subscribers without extra charge.Alot of times they deny this but they are required by law.Most if not all electric companies also if along public road in the assigned service area.Now different story for electric if you build a 1/2 mile off road.I have a fiber route that is 8 miles and goes by 2 ranches

 

[chickenlittle]

A follow up. Starlink let us buy a system for my parents house with “best effort” service. Ordered the antennae array for $550 in August. Installed temporarily on roof and was getting 50Mbs service and up. They drop service every 15-25 min for a second or 2. Nothing that they notice, only know from the starlink app statistics. There is a tree my mother wouldn’t let be cut down until leaves drop. With that down and a permanent mast mount, they should have no drops. Sometime next summer they will guarantee regular/ better service.

We added the Starlink Ethernet adapter and a 5 port network switch to hook up his laptop, downstairs wifi router, and the line to his whole house generator. Got them streaming TV with a Roku box. Next will be a video doorbell and other cameras.

Verizon DSL is unplugged. I need to check that they canceled that service.

Overall quite happy with it.

 

[yoderjac]

A follow up. Starlink let us buy a system for my parents house with “best effort” service. Ordered the antennae array for $550 in August. Installed temporarily on roof and was getting 50Mbs service and up. They drop service every 15-25 min for a second or 2. Nothing that they notice, only know from the starlink app statistics. There is a tree my mother wouldn’t let be cut down until leaves drop. With that down and a permanent mast mount, they should have no drops. Sometime next summer they will guarantee regular/ better service.

We added the Starlink Ethernet adapter and a 5 port network switch to hook up his laptop, downstairs wifi router, and the line to his whole house generator. Got them streaming TV with a Roku box. Next will be a video doorbell and other cameras.

Verizon DSL is unplugged. I need to check that they canceled that service.

Overall quite happy with it.

I did the opposite with my mom. She was a target looking for a scammer. I did everything I could to discourage internet use.