Spring Appearance of Fall Planted Clover

[SD51555]

SD above posts by Buehler of why his clover is not germinating or filling in. Thank you

I'm new to red clover, so I can't offer anything more than a wild guess. I never purchased red clover, but got a plot full of it when I opened up my road plot. Into the full second growing season, I produced a massive crop of red clover and it went to seed and browned down on it's own. I also had balansa do the same. I rolled it down thinking I'd have 100x the clover seed I needed from what grew and matured.

The following year, which is now, I'm not seeing a ton of clover. It's still very early up by me. Things will go fast now over the next 6 weeks, especially as we barrel towards the summer solstice. I spread a rescue seeding in September to see if I could keep the crop going, but again, still too early to say what I'm going to get.

My theory was the clover seed was stuck in dried seed heads and never contacted the soil because it was gently pressed flat.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm new to red clover, so I can't offer anything more than a wild guess. I never purchased red clover, but got a plot full of it when I opened up my road plot. Into the full second growing season, I produced a massive crop of red clover and it went to seed and browned down on it's own. I also had balansa do the same. I rolled it down thinking I'd have 100x the clover seed I needed from what grew and matured.

The following year, which is now, I'm not seeing a ton of clover. It's still very early up by me. Things will go fast now over the next 6 weeks, especially as we barrel towards the summer solstice. I spread a rescue seeding in September to see if I could keep the crop going, but again, still too early to say what I'm going to get.

My theory was the clover seed was stuck in dried seed heads and never contacted the soil because it was gently pressed flat.

With no rolling, pressing, self-seeding (because it wasn't there before), or even trying to grow clover in lawns and other places we don't want it - I'd like to know how it gets there. Clover in lawns around our neighborhood is considered an eyesore. I'd love to have it pop up like that in food plots with no effort!!!

 

[omicron1792]

With no rolling, pressing, self-seeding (because it wasn't there before), or even trying to grow clover in lawns and other places we don't want it - I'd like to know how it gets there. Clover in lawns around our neighborhood is considered an eyesore. I'd love to have it pop up like that in food plots with no effort!!!

I was at our local baseball field and an area around the batting cages was the thickest, most lush white clover I have ever seen. I was thinking man sometimes it grows better as a weed than when I want to cultivate it.

Heck there wasn’t even any other weeds or grass in it. Just pure flowering clover.

 

[matinc]

Another thought what does the group think if you just mowed your fields at 4 inches and kept planting more ladino every year. Basically a grass plot with any number of different plants growing. Maybe mow the field twice a year.

 

[omicron1792]

Another thought what does the group think if you just mowed your fields at 4 inches and kept planting more ladino every year. Basically a grass plot with any number of different plants growing. Maybe mow the field twice a year.

Mowing makes grass get thicker.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Another thought what does the group think if you just mowed your fields at 4 inches and kept planting more ladino every year. Basically a grass plot with any number of different plants growing. Maybe mow the field twice a year.

^ ^ ^ Years ago, before we started planting clover and other food plots at camp, deer would commonly come into the lawn of the cabin itself to eat the white Dutch clover that was in the lawn. Ever since we started planting food plots, the deer pretty much stay out of the lawn for foraging purposes.

 

[SD51555]

With no rolling, pressing, self-seeding (because it wasn't there before), or even trying to grow clover in lawns and other places we don't want it - I'd like to know how it gets there. Clover in lawns around our neighborhood is considered an eyesore. I'd love to have it pop up like that in food plots with no effort!!!

Some natural seeds have amazing staying power in the soil. They can resist germination for decades waiting for just the right time to go. Think thistle, dogwood, clovers, jackpine.

All kinds of events trigger changes in organic acids in the soil, and that can be the call.


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[SD51555]

If you see a pile of scat full of seeds, if you don’t want to pick it up and move it, give it a kick, because those are all ready to go.


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[matinc]

SD watching white clover explode in a yard without being planted would it take over a plot if it were mowed and reseeded every year

 

[farmlegend]

The main theme I’m trying to convey is, if the ground won’t grow what you want, grow what it can first to fix the problem, then switch it over.


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A+.

It only took me decades of playing whack-a-mole with food plot “weeds” to figure this out.

And it was right there staring me in the face all along.

Ask - what seemingly wants to grow in that spot? Why is it growing there, and not some place else? What are the plants trying to accomplish? Why do the enemy plants remain enemies, in spite of my efforts to make them go away? And then, how to work with what I’ve got so as to achieve a good outcome?

Makes me wonder what other truths of life I fail to see while pounding on the square peg.

 

[Joe Buck]

Update on the results of our reseeding of Clover April 28th. We planted 39 lbs. of clover April 28th in Central Wis. Sands Area on approx. 1 3/4 acres. We used 15lbs. Jumbo Ladino and 24lbs. Aberlasting Clover. We used a Solo hand spreader and we went over twice with the cultipacker. We got some heavy rain that night and then some more rain 3 days later. No more rain until I went there May 10th (two weeks after planting). Was expecting to see a fair amount of clover sprouts and there was almost nothing. Was very disappointed. We got 1.35 inches rain May15th and 1.48 inches May 20th.. Stopped May 30th and we have a field full of Brohm Grass about 8 to 10 inches high and seeded out. There is some clover that is growing in places but overall not much under the Brohm Grass. There are spots where we got a fair amount of germination from the Aberlasting but almost nothing in the 2 areas we planted the Jumbo Ladino. With all the rain we were hoping for so much more. We got another .74 inches of rain this afternoon. Am planning on going up there this Thursday to cut the Brohm Grass and weeds that are starting to grow before the seed heads ripen. So far it's been pretty much a failure. Since last Fall we have planted 58lbs. of Clover in that 1 3/4 acre food plot. With almost nothing to show for it. Anybody reading this thread may want to go back to the beginning to see how this all started. Just a quick note to Bueller. I know you are only a few miles away from us. Based on your post I know for sure now we lost everything this last Winter as well. Just to cold with almost 2 months of no snow cover. No idea why we have had such terrible germination this Spring.

 

[matinc]

Joe 60 pounds of clover on less than 2 acres and no results? Do you have any pics to show?

 

[matinc]

Check out the sweet clover thread by SD. This is how I am planting this year based on SD information and observations

 

[Joe Buck]

i have some picts. on my phone but will have to get them to my computer to attach, will try to do that tomorrow.

 

[SD51555]

Update on the results of our reseeding of Clover April 28th. We planted 39 lbs. of clover April 28th in Central Wis. Sands Area on approx. 1 3/4 acres. We used 15lbs. Jumbo Ladino and 24lbs. Aberlasting Clover. We used a Solo hand spreader and we went over twice with the cultipacker. We got some heavy rain that night and then some more rain 3 days later. No more rain until I went there May 10th (two weeks after planting). Was expecting to see a fair amount of clover sprouts and there was almost nothing. Was very disappointed. We got 1.35 inches rain May15th and 1.48 inches May 20th.. Stopped May 30th and we have a field full of Brohm Grass about 8 to 10 inches high and seeded out. There is some clover that is growing in places but overall not much under the Brohm Grass. There are spots where we got a fair amount of germination from the Aberlasting but almost nothing in the 2 areas we planted the Jumbo Ladino. With all the rain we were hoping for so much more. We got another .74 inches of rain this afternoon. Am planning on going up there this Thursday to cut the Brohm Grass and weeds that are starting to grow before the seed heads ripen. So far it's been pretty much a failure. Since last Fall we have planted 58lbs. of Clover in that 1 3/4 acre food plot. With almost nothing to show for it. Anybody reading this thread may want to go back to the beginning to see how this all started. Just a quick note to Bueller. I know you are only a few miles away from us. Based on your post I know for sure now we lost everything this last Winter as well. Just to cold with almost 2 months of no snow cover. No idea why we have had such terrible germination this Spring.

Man, that is a heart breaker. Here's what I might try, and sand is tough conditions, so you'll need a little luck too. Let your weeds grow all summer so you can some residue built up above ground. Hit it with gly around August 15th again, and then throw and roll rye, yellow sweet clover, chicory, plantain, and hairy vetch (yes i'm recommending a plant I do not like) again on Labor day weekend. Your weed residue should help keep the temps down on your sand, and give maybe a little winter insulation.

Focus on getting that big rye duff layer first. Once you can get a blanket of residue on your sand, sand problems won't be such a problem. Check out the sweet clover thread because the same problems I was trying to address. After you have a full growing season of rye and you let it go all the way to August 15th again, then I'd spread the clovers you want and roll it down again. Add a cereal grain again too, rye if you have high browse pressure, winter trit if it isn't so bad.

Thread 'The Sweet Clover Thread'

Jun 12, 2023

I’ve been at this for 21 years. I’ve had white clover every year. I think I am finally ready to kill it all. I’ve not been able to overcome the smothering effects of WC, and because of that, I haven’t been able to punch in a stand of rye to hold back the grasses with the equipment and methods I use. I’m not going the tractor/drill route either. I’m building a real cabin and fish pond before that ever happens.

I started the road plot last summer. It got primarily rye, chicory, plantain, and yellow sweet clover. Balansa didn’t survive the winter. The deer wiped the sweet clover off the map...

• SD51555
• Replies: 287
• Forum: Foodplots

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[bigboreblr]

Clover with no weeds or grass is much harder than planting clover with the grass you want.

You mow, weeds just o their thing shorter. Been fighting red aramath at home and mace sedge at camp for years.

Clethodim fights grass better than the mower. Killing stuff dead, then going clover n cereal grains keep weeds away for awhile. mid spring spraying with gly helps too.

A little weeds ok, starting to get a bunch, time to redo the plot.

clethodim only does ture grasses, there areras, but are things out there that look like grass, but are not. ID your target weeds well.

2,4db attacks broadleaf weeds without significantly harming clover. I never used it.

At camp, I let nature does what it wants until mid august. Then I spray with gly, or just knock the stuff over with a tire drag. I spread a good dose or rye, a little oats, and a medium dose of clover. There is live clover under the tall axlerod.

Sandy poor pH plot has been looking better every year. PRetty sure those tall weeds are mining nutrients down deep. /Most years dont even use fertilizer.

 

[Double Creek]

I'm new to red clover, so I can't offer anything more than a wild guess. I never purchased red clover, but got a plot full of it when I opened up my road plot. Into the full second growing season, I produced a massive crop of red clover and it went to seed and browned down on it's own. I also had balansa do the same. I rolled it down thinking I'd have 100x the clover seed I needed from what grew and matured.

The following year, which is now, I'm not seeing a ton of clover. It's still very early up by me. Things will go fast now over the next 6 weeks, especially as we barrel towards the summer solstice. I spread a rescue seeding in September to see if I could keep the crop going, but again, still too early to say what I'm going to get.

My theory was the clover seed was stuck in dried seed heads and never contacted the soil because it was gently pressed flat.

In Dr. Craig Harper’s food plot book he recommends top sowing additional red clover annually if you are adding it to your mix. It must not reseed very well because on the other clovers he says to let them go to seed and then mow and that additional seeding shouldn’t be necessary if you have a good stand.

 

[Westwind]

We are in Central Sands Area in Central Wis. We planted clover last fall with a cover crop of forage oats. We planted Labor day weekend and had no rain for 2 weeks. Rains came and we had very good germination and continued to grow till the first week in Nov.. We had good growth and it was quite thick but the deer kept it from growing very tall. We had some snow cover but that melted and the plot was completely bare for all of Jan. and most of Feb.. Jan. was extremely cold and by the middle of Feb. the frost was at least 1to 1 1/2 feet deep. The plot was just bare dirt with no sign of even shriveled up clover. Our fear is it all may have winter killed. My son was there last weekend and no sign of any clover. There was some growth starting but only some grass and a few low growing weeds. The clover we planted was Aberlasting, Jumbo Ladino and some Med-Red. My questions.. First- should we be seeing any clover by now or is it still to early to tell if it all died?
Secondly - if it is all dead do we try to replant this spring yet.? Thirdly- do we just forget the clover altogether and just do winter rye or winter wheat every fall and forget the clover altogether. We have been trying to establish clover on this 11/2 acre of sand for a number of years with limited success. lack of Rain being our biggest problem in this very sandy soil. The landowner plants about 30 acres of corn every year which is right next to the clover plot we are trying to establish. He has trouble with the corn in dry summers as well. Thanking you all in advance for your advice.

Joe- quoting your original post just to get back to where you started.

I love a mix. If I’m planting clover I’m planting a mix that includes the varieties you mentioned plus I'm adding Alsike and crimson. Mix it all up and try to keep rates and ratios right.

In your case I’m going to suggest something. My suggestion is that your current goal is to grow clover. I think your goal should be to improve your soil. The growing clover part will eventually happen.

The good news is deer LOVE soil builder mixes. And @farmlegend above said something important- “what wants to grow in that spot”. Thats why you want a mix for now. A soil builder mix of 8 or 10 or 12 seed variety mix WILL have some things that want to grow there, will have some things that will do OK there and some that will grow. Put on 50# per acre with a seeder or drill and 60-70# per acre if broadcasting before a rain.

Here is my suggestion. It is the Cadillac approach and I know not everyone has time and equipment for this. But this is what I think is ideal.

1) Spray it. Use 2 quarts per acre 41% Glyphosate (roundup) with tank mixed AMS

2) Plant a soil builder mix. Vitalize Nitro Boost is both soil builder and deer forage. Green Cover Warm Season Soil Builder is good too. If you are drilling/using a seeder go 50# per acre. If you are broadcasting before a rain, go heavy. (Way heavier than Greencover’s broadcast rate.)

(Three summers ago I had a failed spring planting. I’m in zone 5a, planted soil builder around 4th of July and it took off. Suppressed weeds, improved my soil and I put a rye/oats/pea mix in around Labor Day. I don’t know about winter peas in your area.)

3) Rye this Labor Day. Plant a mix BUT Rye grain has to be a big part of your plan. All the guys in my area farming sand or sandy loam never miss a fall of rye. Totally a disposable crop. If you are using a seeder, 50# rye, 50# wheat, 50# oats per acre. Or 150# rye. Even 200# per acre. You can overseed a mix of clovers at that time but I would plan on doing soil builder again come spring.

I’m good with leaving the weeds, spraying them in the fall and planting again. I hate weeds though. I feel like waiting misses an opportunity to improve. I also think that if its in your means, a soil builder mix would do you more good and the deer would love it.

Again- I love a mix. Your soil will like some seed in that mix and tolerate the other seeds. And every time you do that the better the soil will like the other seeds.

 

[omicron1792]

In Dr. Craig Harper’s food plot book he recommends top sowing additional red clover annually if you are adding it to your mix. It must not reseed very well because on the other clovers he says to let them go to seed and then mow and that additional seeding shouldn’t be necessary if you have a good stand.

Most reds are a biannual so you have to replant it often.