Saint Lawrence Nursery rootstock

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The nursery is now all Siberian rootstock. They say they're having trouble getting antsy rootstock. I emailed them if they grow the seedlings themselves and if the seeds come from their nursery. Their rootstock would make great surprise variety trees if it does. Alot of good zone 3 trees are in their orchard to cross polinate with.

Got a dozen from them last year, they grafted well. Alot better than my m111's fared. Decent size, good roots on them too. The one or two that didn't graft the 1st time, did the 2nd time. Had a variety of scion that wasn't too good on a few. Just condition of scion.

Hoping my order of antonovka from mehrabyan nursery doesn't have problems.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

That's odd considering Antonovka rootstock was a major marketing point for them in the past. Perhaps Siberian rootstock is similar, but I've been fooled on rootstock before (B118's that were hyped, but weren't as tough as I hoped). I hope the change to Siberian rootstock works for them, I haven't ordered from them in years, but I really liked getting their annual catalog.

 

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They've sold Siberian seedling rootstock for 3 years now. They also say their harder to graft crabs have been on it a few years now. Didn't see any huge differences between my order last year. Was almost all crabapples violin, awho, adirondack, and winter wildlife.

They say they're all zone 3 stuff. They got enterprise and liberty as well as some other common apples many say is zone 4 or even a few 5's in there.


Debating buying a few this year or not. Wondering If I should order a few more antonovka from mehrabyan.

I know a few places stopped selling dolgo. Who knows, maybe you can buy seeds cheap from China or parts of Asia. Thinking maybe taking 1 anty and planting it sideways so I get 5 or so shoots every year for more trees. MAybe even a M111 too.

 

[sandbur]

The nursery is now all Siberian rootstock. They say they're having trouble getting antsy rootstock. I emailed them if they grow the seedlings themselves and if the seeds come from their nursery. Their rootstock would make great surprise variety trees if it does. Alot of good zone 3 trees are in their orchard to cross polinate with.

Got a dozen from them last year, they grafted well. Alot better than my m111's fared. Decent size, good roots on them too. The one or two that didn't graft the 1st time, did the 2nd time. Had a variety of scion that wasn't too good on a few. Just condition of scion.

Hoping my order of antonovka from mehrabyan nursery doesn't have problems.

Do you mean they are using Siberian for trees you order from them and for rootstock you order from them?

I welcome the change. I have never used Siberian but have used ranetka and like it. I wonder how Manchurian, ranetka, and Siberian differ.

Anty just seems to be a problem for me on lighter soils but does well on better soils and with decent snow cover in the winter.

I have heard a second hand story from an experienced apple grower in Montana that Anty doesn’t survive well unless he buries the graft.

 

[bigboreblr]

They offered Ranetka 2 years ago or so. They got back to me about the rootstock. It's not from their farm. Surprises might be less than expected. But plant one to find out for sure.

I don't think Siberian would bother me. Very likely most of my spring 2025 order was on Siberian anyways considering I bought crabapples.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I have plenty of Siberian seedlings growing last 20 yrs. They are hardy, grow fast and at least they make a full size tree. Fruit is normally pretty small but some exceptions. Can expect it makes a decent rootstock somewhat like Dolgo.

Wonder if Anty shortage is really the whole reason or if they are feeling pressure to please the show me now crowd on forums like this. My SLN trees on Anty all seem to grow slower than trees from other popular wildlife nurseries like Blue Hill or Whitetail Crabs. Those other nurseries don't focus on Anty as much and early on (say trees under 7 to 8 years) from other places just get big faster with other rootstocks and produce fruit sooner. Don't get me wrong, my SLN trees have all survived and long term will probably still be cranking out fruit beyond 50 yrs old. But sure SLN owners want repeat customers and folks get impatient on taking 10 or more yrs to ramp up some fruit production.

For what it's worth, I do like Ranetka over Siberian if one is just going to let the seedlings go and never graft. Fruit is generally larger averaging about 1" and starts dropping during hunting season. Siberian is generally about pea size and holds on into winter.

 

[sandbur]

I have plenty of Siberian seedlings growing last 20 yrs. They are hardy, grow fast and at least they make a full size tree. Fruit is normally pretty small but some exceptions. Can expect it makes a decent rootstock somewhat like Dolgo.

Wonder if Anty shortage is really the whole reason or if they are feeling pressure to please the show me now crowd on forums like this. My SLN trees on Anty all seem to grow slower than trees from other popular wildlife nurseries like Blue Hill or Whitetail Crabs. Those other nurseries don't focus on Anty as much and early on (say trees under 7 to 8 years) from other places just get big faster with other rootstocks and produce fruit sooner. Don't get me wrong, my SLN trees have all survived and long term will probably still be cranking out fruit beyond 50 yrs old. But sure SLN owners want repeat customers and folks get impatient on taking 10 or more yrs to ramp up some fruit production.

For what it's worth, I do like Ranetka over Siberian if one is just going to let the seedlings go and never graft. Fruit is generally larger averaging about 1" and starts dropping during hunting season. Siberian is generally about pea size and holds on into winter.

I have a couple of dozen Manchurian crabs that are about 35 years old. All are bird sized crabs. I am not sure if/how Manchurian is related to Ranetka or Siberian.

I can also remember reading, decades back, that crabs, and probably crab rootstock can do better on a 1/2 lower pH soil than most larger apples.

Does anyone have info on soil pH and Anty versus the other rootstocks?

 

[bigboreblr]

I dont think SLN mai market is deer hunters. They seen to attract the organic growers in my opinion. They claim to do this by hand and use mulch vs fertilizer.

I've looked up apple stuff a million ways, never looked at which roostock is low pH tolerant. I sure have that problem at camp. I took a pH sample of the water mainly for AMS in herbicide sprays. Got 4.5..... When I add AMS my sprayer clogs up with orange goo. Think its tannins in the water.

 

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What little I saw is polish roostocks are more tolerant of low pH situations. P22 being the best, but makes a dwarf tree. P18 would be a good option. Apple trees can accumulate too much aluminum and maganese when the pH is too low.

Been spreading lime around my trees almost every tie I see them at camp.

Not much on crabapple rootstocks out there. One of the best wet location roostocks I saw online is pacific crabapple, also called swamp crabapple.

 

[sandbur]

What little I saw is polish roostocks are more tolerant of low pH situations. P22 being the best, but makes a dwarf tree. P18 would be a good option. Apple trees can accumulate too much aluminum and maganese when the pH is too low.

Been spreading lime around my trees almost every tie I see them at camp.

Not much on crabapple rootstocks out there. One of the best wet location roostocks I saw online is pacific crabapple, also called swamp crabapple.

I have several wild crabs growing in the swamp and have two Big Dogs grafted on some rootsuckers that I salvaged.

The local town has a river flowing through it and there are wild crabs in the bottom lands that survive periodic flooding.

One year I tried to germinate some seeds but failed.

 

[sandbur]

What little I saw is polish roostocks are more tolerant of low pH situations. P22 being the best, but makes a dwarf tree. P18 would be a good option. Apple trees can accumulate too much aluminum and maganese when the pH is too low.

Been spreading lime around my trees almost every tie I see them at camp.

Not much on crabapple rootstocks out there. One of the best wet location roostocks I saw online is pacific crabapple, also called swamp crabapple.

Your comment about low pH and aluminum/ manganese makes me wonder if that has been part of my struggle with Anty rootstock. Anty seems to do ok on my better soils with better natural pH. On lighter soils, it struggles more than dolgo rootstock.

 

[bigboreblr]

I got heavier clay with orange clay hardpan with shallower shale here n there ontop of it. Now you got me questioning what I do at home. I am replacing a few bad performers and making copies of trees that were on b118. Grabbing a few P18 and G890 at home. Several places say m111 and m7 does not do well in heavy wet soil. Then other places say it does. I know B118 gets very lazy in my rich soil. Irrigating when it doesn't rain 5 days might be adding problems too possibly.

At camp I add lime every year if not twice a year. I use pelletized lime in a bag spreader. MAkes a nice mess of me, but gives a nice radius of what would be a mature apple tree's majority of it roots. If I am using a 40lb bag per 8 trees at a 20x20ft application. I am dong a 1/4 ton per acre roughy. I try to do that early season and summer time or atleast in september. In the spring I mix in about 10 coffee cups of 10-10-10 to the the bag. Sandy soil does not hold alot of nutrients / ions and does not hold them long. Several applicatins per year is best. I a little more clean up in 2 spots and I can start using a push broadcast spreader.

Changing up my order with mehrabyan.

What rootstocks have your tried Sandbur? Seems at home m111 will be ok. See if g890 or P18 does better.

At camp though..... I do not have a good go of B118. So, I just ordered (3) Franklin ciders on B118. Wanted to give that tree a try up there anyway. I ordered 10 P18's and got 4 M111's. Think they would survive in zone 3/4. Had a -35 deg F day in 2022. Been mild the past few years, like -10 to -15. Need only 2 P18's at home and 2 or 3 G890's. Could even try G890 at camp. IF I try these rootstocks at camp, what should I put the graft union at?

 

[bigboreblr]

Low pH ith apples can cause an excess of maganese. ITs refered to as apple measles. I see tha with my old apple orchard trees at home.

Measles

Measles on fruit, leaves, or stems can mean many different things, but it is not the human measles virus. Measles on plants can indicate fungal diseases that may look like anthracnose . Measles...

www.thedailygarden.us

 

[sandbur]

I got heavier clay with orange clay hardpan with shallower shale here n there ontop of it. Now you got me questioning what I do at home. I am replacing a few bad performers and making copies of trees that were on b118. Grabbing a few P18 and G890 at home. Several places say m111 and m7 does not do well in heavy wet soil. Then other places say it does. I know B118 gets very lazy in my rich soil. Irrigating when it doesn't rain 5 days might be adding problems too possibly.

At camp I add lime every year if not twice a year. I use pelletized lime in a bag spreader. MAkes a nice mess of me, but gives a nice radius of what would be a mature apple tree's majority of it roots. If I am using a 40lb bag per 8 trees at a 20x20ft application. I am dong a 1/4 ton per acre roughy. I try to do that early season and summer time or atleast in september. In the spring I mix in about 10 coffee cups of 10-10-10 to the the bag. Sandy soil does not hold alot of nutrients / ions and does not hold them long. Several applicatins per year is best. I a little more clean up in 2 spots and I can start using a push broadcast spreader.

Changing up my order with mehrabyan.

What rootstocks have your tried Sandbur? Seems at home m111 will be ok. See if g890 or P18 does better.

At camp though..... I do not have a good go of B118. So, I just ordered (3) Franklin ciders on B118. Wanted to give that tree a try up there anyway. I ordered 10 P18's and got 4 M111's. Think they would survive in zone 3/4. Had a -35 deg F day in 2022. Been mild the past few years, like -10 to -15. Need only 2 P18's at home and 2 or 3 G890's. Could even try G890 at camp. IF I try these rootstocks at camp, what should I put the graft union at?

I would only be guessing on where to plant the graft Union.

I have b118, Anty, ranetka, dolgo seedling, the wild crab from the swamp, and probably one on m111.

That wild crab has done well as rootstock.

I have scion tacked on Manchurian, red splendor, and another crab a neighbor gave me that resembles profusion.

I have friends who have ordered bundles of red splendor( probably seedlings) and used them as rootstocks.

Most winters we hit -30 and I remember some test winters at -40 or so.

 

[sandbur]

Low pH ith apples can cause an excess of maganese. ITs refered to as apple measles. I see tha with my old apple orchard trees at home.

Measles

Measles on fruit, leaves, or stems can mean many different things, but it is not the human measles virus. Measles on plants can indicate fungal diseases that may look like anthracnose . Measles...

www.thedailygarden.us

I have seen that.

 

[sandbur]

I have seen that.

Is this it or fungal? This scion was tacked on a red splendor that is pretty much ignored, but occasionally gets a fruit tree spike.

 

[bigboreblr]

I'd say its possible. Does it wash off a bit, but still seems to have a residual. Mine have that.

 

[sandbur]

I'd say its possible. Does it wash off a bit, but still seems to have a residual. Mine have that.

A bit washes off but most of it doesn’t.

 

[sandbur]

What little I saw is polish roostocks are more tolerant of low pH situations. P22 being the best, but makes a dwarf tree. P18 would be a good option. Apple trees can accumulate too much aluminum and maganese when the pH is too low.

Been spreading lime around my trees almost every tie I see them at camp.

Not much on crabapple rootstocks out there. One of the best wet location roostocks I saw online is pacific crabapple, also called swamp crabapple.

I ran the question about crab apple rootstocks past some friends in the prairie provinces. A few of the experienced ones mentioned growing their own rootstock with dolgo, ranetka, Siberian, and thunder child.

 

[homerj]

Manganese Bark Necrosis of Apple | Scouting Guide for Problems of Fruit

Return to Nutrient Disorders Manganese bark necrosis or measles is manifested as an uneven bark surface with purplish raised pimples and dark deposits below. It is caused by an excessive uptake of manganese from the soil. A low soil pH of 5 or below makes manganese much more available and...

fruitscout.mgcafe.uky.edu