Reasons to use AMS with glyphosate

[willy]

https://www.farmprogress.com/node/219292

Why Use AMS With Glyphosate Herbicide?
Some crop consultants and chemical dealers always recommend adding ammonium sulfate to glyphosate to improve weed control.
Rod Swoboda 1 | Jun 13, 2005

Avoid problems mixing AMS with herbicide

The addition of AMS to glyphosate is not always necessary, but it tends to improve glyphosate effectiveness on certain weeds and in certain situations. The addition of AMS to glyphosate accomplishes the following:

• It prevents the cations in hard water from binding to glyphosate, which reduces its effectiveness.
• It improves control of certain weeds, such as velvetleaf and some perennials.
• It helps maintain glyphosate effectiveness under cold or other adverse conditions.
• It helps overcome the reduction in glyphosate effectiveness when mixed with other herbicides that cause antagonism.
• It helps maintain glyphosate effectiveness when mixed with manganese for foliar feeding of soybeans.

"Although many of us tend to always add AMS at the rate of 17 pounds of dry material per 100 gallons of spray solution when applying glyphosate, this rate may be higher than is needed for some situations," says McGrath. "The amount of AMS can be adjusted based on water hardness if it is known, and a rate of 8 pounds per 100 gallons may be adequate for many sources of water."

Avoid problems mixing AMS with herbicide

AMS is available as a dry material, and also as a liquid. Problems with mixing the dry materials with water can be minimized by using spray-grade AMS, which is formulated specifically for use in herbicide applications. Other dry AMS materials may be available, but those not specifically formulated for use in herbicide applications may present more problems in mixing or clogging of sprayer parts.

Various liquid AMS-replacement products are also available, and these are frequently used by many applicators due to the convenience. It can be difficult if not impossible to know the rate of a replacement product required to provide the same benefit of 8 or 17 pounds of AMS.

Some manufacturers provide this information, but it may be found only in technical or promotional literature, and not on the product label. This does not mean that these products are less effective than dry or liquid AMS, just that information is lacking to know how they compare to true AMS in their capacity to negate hard water or overcome antagonism from manganese.

"So, now you know way more about why AMS works than you really needed to," jokes McGrath, who offers this good advice: "Plan on using some form of AMS, with your glyphosate program and work closely with your local dealer. He or she will help you get hold of the right AMS product for your situation."

 

[j-bird]

Thanks for the info....I use AMS, but I apparently am using not enough! I have VERY hard water (due to my well). Based on the info I should be running roughly 8.5 lbs in my 50 gallon sprayer. I don't run near that much! I use a liquid product that is listed as having only 3.4 lbs/gallon. I would need roughly the entire 2 1/2 gallon container per tank! It's not that expensive at $22 per 2.5 jug. I will certainly do some more digging into the matter. I seem to have decent gly results....but if they could be better...then it may be worth the effort.

https://www.ruralking.com/drexel-ams-supreme-2-12-gallon

 

[Tap]

I've added AMS for years.
There was an excellent thread about it somewhere...maybe on the QDMA forum, by one of the well known and highly educated members (I forget his handle..."brush" something or other).
I got the spray grade granular from Keystone Pest.
I've never done a side-by-side comparison with a mix without AMS so I don't know how much it helped. But its cheap so why not add it?

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[Bill]

Thanks for the info....I use AMS, but I apparently am using not enough! I have VERY hard water (due to my well). Based on the info I should be running roughly 8.5 lbs in my 50 gallon sprayer. I don't run near that much! I use a liquid product that is listed as having only 3.4 lbs/gallon. I would need roughly the entire 2 1/2 gallon container per tank! It's not that expensive at $22 per 2.5 jug. I will certainly do some more digging into the matter. I seem to have decent gly results....but if they could be better...then it may be worth the effort.

https://www.ruralking.com/drexel-ams-supreme-2-12-gallon

check your coop or fertilizer guy. You should be able to get a 51lb bag for not much than that.

 

[j-bird]

check your coop or fertilizer guy. You should be able to get a 51lb bag for not much than that.

Sometimes my retail farm store has it in granular form as well....just not always. I was just surprised at the amount was all. Wil be interesting to see if I see any difference in it's effectiveness....

 

[g squared 23]

The fact that it helps with velvetleaf is enough for me to try it. I loathe those things.


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[willy]

I didn't start using it until about 10 or 11 years ago. I'd buy my chemicals at the coop and be on my way. It was on the old qdma forum someone mentioned it, (I believe it was Paul Knox, Paul was instrumental in shortening my learning curve on habitat and plotting, I miss his wisdom and humanity. He was a great man ) and it helping with gly effectiveness as hard water would lessen it's impact. I'd noticed that my gly didn't seem to work as well as people were sharing. I'd never paid attention to our water really as to how hard it was as we had just moved onto the place but took at look at it and it is very hard, lots of stuff is left behind when an ice cube melts and evaporates on a surface.

I went to the place I get my herbicides and asked if they had that. They did and said it was a great addition to gly applications, makes a big difference in hard water that we have around here. That sold me and the next time I sprayed it was very noticeable. I use the granular and get it in 50# bags.

I now use it with any herbicide that advises to in the label description/directions. One definitely doesn't want to use it with certain herbicides, including some mixes with gly as it can turn into a cloggy mess/gel. Learned that the hard way and found reading some herbicide labels that it is not to be added for that very reason. Read labels closely. I know it's a pain in the arse but it does make a difference in outcome of spraying.

On a different note try to find the show AgPHD, it is put on by two brothers out of SD. The Hefty brothers really know their stuff and put it into terms I can understand. It is geared for farmers but plotters can pick up great info and knowledge from it on herbicides and weeds.

 

[willy]

When one goes to put the AMS in their mix make sure one mixes it with water to get it dissolved prior to dumping in tank otherwise it won't get dissolved and be a waste of time and money. I take a plastic container that will hold 5 pounds of it and then weigh out in one pound increments in the jar and mark the 1-5 pound marks as some herbicides have lessor amounts than others it say to add. So its a quick and easy measurement, dump it in a 2 gallon bucket, add water and stir the heck out of it and dump it in the tank prior to dumping in any other products. It's listed to be dumped first in all the mixes I use, as most powders and granulars are directed in the label to be mixed first.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

One of out local ag places stopped carrying granular AMS. I believe they have liquid (though a bit spendy for my taste) I haven't had a chance to check with the others in the area. ( I have three within 4 miles so thats nice.)

 

[Kooch]

I've never done it without AMS. I half-fill my ATV mounted sprayer with water then add the granular, spray-grade AMS. Next, I go for a dangerous joy ride, swerving all over to mix the AMS. It's fun. Then, I add the other chemicals, and the balance of the water.

 

[DIY]

I've never done it without AMS. I half-fill my ATV mounted sprayer with water then add the granular, spray-grade AMS. Next, I go for a dangerous joy ride, swerving all over to mix the AMS. It's fun. Then, I add the other chemicals, and the balance of the water.

I cracked up when I read this. I do the exact same thing.

 

[TreeDaddy]

......If you mix your herbicide sprayer by going for a joy ride on your ATV.....

........you might be a habitat guy.......

bill

 

[j-bird]

I think the message here needs to be: IF you are having issues with your gly effectiveness adding AMS may help you. I would also suggest starting at the lower suggested rate of 8 lbs/100 gallons and then go up from there if needed.

We base a lot of what we do based off of the farming community and that is fine, but we need to keep in mind that for many of us plotters..."Close"....is "good enough".

It also has 21% Nitrogen in it so it can give your chemical a little "kick" if you are targeting grasses as well. I started using it with my cleth originally.

 

[Tap]

I think the message here needs to be: IF you are having issues with your gly effectiveness adding AMS may help you.

I think the issue for a lot of us, is that its not always easy to identify the reasons we MIGHT be having with gly. A lot of us spray diligently and end up with less than adequate results and we can't understand exactly why.
Is it our water? Is it our spray application or mixing methods or our timing? Are we dealing with gly resistant weeds? Is it the gly mix or something else at play?
There are a ton of variables as to why gly might not be doing the job for us.
If I'm gonna spend the time, labor, and money to apply an herbicide, then I want it to be as effective as possible.
I will gladly spend a couple extra dollars per acre on AMS.

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[yoderjac]

Lots of good posts on "why" in this thread. I just want to make sure new folks reading this thread understand the "how". You first put some water in your tank and then add the AMS. You can get granular in water soluble form. If you the granular AMS is not water soluble (or even if it is, if you like), add it to some water in a bucket the night before to give it time to dissolve. With the water soluble form, I just put it in the tank after adding a few gallons of water. I then fill the tank with water. The agitation caused by hosing in the rest of the water helps mix the AMS with water.

The AMS then has a chemical reaction binding to the minerals which ties them up. Otherwise, the minerals bind with the glyphosate making it less effective. (a little dumbed down as I'm not going to get into the details of the chemistry). The point is AMS and water first. Once it is well agitated and mixed you then add the glyphosate.

This is the general approach. As always, read the label of the chemical you are using and follow directions related to your application.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[birdog]

How much liquid AMS should I be using with my gly? I've been using 3oz per gallon but I have a feeling that is not enough as my kill was not very good.

 

[yoderjac]

How much liquid AMS should I be using with my gly? I've been using 3oz per gallon but I have a feeling that is not enough as my kill was not very good.

It depends on your water. The more minerals in your water the more AMS it takes to bind them up.

 

[birdog]

It's well water but I have not had it tested. I believe it's not terribly bad but I noticed I never really had a good kill, even when spot spraying around my barn. Can you use too much liquid AMS?

 

[yoderjac]

It's well water but I have not had it tested. I believe it's not terribly bad but I noticed I never really had a good kill, even when spot spraying around my barn. Can you use too much liquid AMS?

Probably not from a gly effectiveness standpoint. AMS will add N and Sulfur. It is actually a fertilizer.

Have you calibrated your sprayer? There are a few possibilities if you are not getting a good kill. One is that you are not applying 2 qt/ac of gly that you think you are because of sprayer calibration issues. Another is that your weeds are either naturally gly resistant or have developed gly resistance from misuse of gly over time.

If you have checked your sprayer calibration and not getting a good kill, I would consider adding 24D to the mix. Check the label for tank mixes. 24D will handle many broadleaf weeds that gly alone will not. Unlike gly, it does have a soil residual effect, so you need to consider that when selecting your crop and the timing of spraying and planting.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Rit]

It's well water but I have not had it tested. I believe it's not terribly bad but I noticed I never really had a good kill, even when spot spraying around my barn. Can you use too much liquid AMS?

Guess only but your well water is probably harder than you think. It also matters how you mix the AMS. You should be mixing the water and AMS and give it some time before you add the gly. Sprayer grade dry AMS is 17 pounds per 100 gallons of water and if I recall correctly liquid AMS was 2.5 - 5 gallons per 100 gallons. I think that changes If adding something like 2-4d. I have hard well water (softener set to 25) and before I used AMS I had all kinds of trouble getting a good kill. Now I mix AMS a few hours before I add gly and it’s smoke city.