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Question about clover planted in corn

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
Not being a farmer, I see folks plant beans & GFR in corn and I wondered - can clover ( of some type ) be planted in corn? Would it provide nitrogen to the corn while it's growing in it? This would be for a deer plot - not for ag. purposes. We have a big population of bears in the area, so some of the corn will get hammered while " in the milk ". Just trying to get some extra forage benefit for deer while adding to the soil if possible. All ideas welcome!!
 
From my experience, white clover usually does great in that environment. I know a farmer who does it on all his steeper strip cropped ground and on his other fields the year before he turns a row crop strip field to hay. He usually gets average yield from his corn during those years and has a jump start on hay ground for the next year. He drills grass(some mix of fescue, timothy, and ryegrass) and more clover into it the following spring. The limiting factor is water, the clover will use water that would normally be available to the corn. In the drought of 2012 he did lose about 20% yield in the steeper strip rows with clover, but those strips were on slopes with better than average drainage, which may have also limited water retention on that soil, and the heat may have made both the clover and corn use more water, especially with the dry conditions? Otherwise, it usually works great for him.
 
Is there a better thing to plant in corn that will help improve the soil and be a source of food for the deer? Our soil is a heavier clayish - loam type that doesn't dry out too quickly. It isn't goopy & mucky - it drains O.K., no water standing anywhere. Relatively flat / very, very slight slope to the ground - it stays moist for most of the year.

Our biggest invader in past corn plots is foxtail grass. Good for deer bedding in corn, but not for soil improvement or food for deer. Should I just try a couple different things planted into the corn and see what works? All ideas welcome !!!

Thanks Whip, for responding !!
 
Soybeans work great as well in a food plot setting many guys on here have done that in the past and have great success. When you don't have to worry about harvesting, you have lots of options. How big of any area are you talking?
 
About 2 to 2 1/2 acres, Whip. It's a long narrow strip with a width of about 25 yds. It sits just off the high point of an easy hill ( picture the top of a loaf of bread ). It gets plenty of sun, though some sections are somewhat shaded by some pines. The corn will draw bears, so I'm wondering if the beans would get trampled out by the bears? I know many of you guys don't have to contend with bears - they are a PAIN. Maybe just stick with the corn? We have lots of other plots w/ clover, buckwheat, oats, rye, winter wheat, brassica.

You guys that farm a lot have a much better handle on what & how to plant. Trying to learn and save $$$ & time.
 
I understand your apprehension on the beans in that instance, you could end up with 2 crops destroyed. I would still consider the white clover, it is cheap insurance to have something in that plot if the bears destroy the corn, and they will do very little towards damaging the clover.
 
When do you think I should plant the clover - same time as the corn or after corn is up 4, 5" or so? Maybe try just a section w/clover to see how it grows & acts within the corn?
Thanks Whip - for your responses & help.
 
I've often wondered (as asked above) if the clover will provide some N to the corn when the two are planted together?? Idea about % of N provided? (1/3 of the need, or so?)
 
If you have an existing clover plot and a planter that will handle it, I would plant the corn right into the old clover as early as possible in your respective area. Mow the clover as low as possible and plant away. If you have good spring moisture, the corn will be up in a matter of a week or so and will be taller than the clover in a short time. If you use RR corn you could also spray right before or even after you plant the corn to put down any other grasses or broadleaf weeds and set back the clover.
If you are planting into bare dirt, you could plant both at the same time if you were pressed for time or wait till the corn was up a bit, either way would be fine. The caveat is, whether I planted right away or waited, I would be sure to spray gly before my clover germinated. Established clover can withstand a fairly potent gly application, baby seedling clover most likely will not have a chance. In that situation, given you have the time, plant your corn and let it get 5"-8" tall, spray gly to kill the weeds, and broadcast your clover.
If you plant into 2 year old established clover, it could potentially provide 50% to 70% of your corn's nitrogen needs. Planting at the same time, you would not see the clover make enough N during the stages that the corn really needed it, although by the end of the summer it could be providing at least some N to your corn. This is not a real exact or easy to prove "science", the clover is obviously using most of the N it produces for itself, if it produces extra, it is primarily stored in the nodules until the plant needs it or that part of the root system and the attached nodules die, then it is released into the soil. Some science says that living nodules will excrete a small % of N when they have excessive amounts beyond the host plants needs, but again it is not an exact science and hard to measure.

From the ISU website:
A simple way to tell if a nodule is fixing N is to cut it open. A red color indicates
the presence of leghemoglobin and a capacity to fix N. White interiors indicate
ineffective nodules. Green interiors indicate nodules that are past their prime.

I hope that explained some of what you were asking and didn't serve to confuse further.
 
Everything I have read indicates that clover only provides nitrogen 3 weeks after it has been terminated. The clover needs to be mature where it has mature nodes.

My thoughts are there would not be allot of gain growing them together as the clover would compete so growth for both would slow and little nitrogen gained.

I do think you can gain nitrogen if you rotate clover and/ or beans with corn. This is what I am attempting to do on my place.
 
Clover more so than beans. Here is a good quick reference from the International Plant Nutrition Institute:

THE SCIENCE BEHIND THE NITROGEN CREDIT FOR SOYBEANS

“Take a N credit for corn following soybean.”
This statement, or something like it, is common to most N recommendations for corn. The idea is that after a soybean crop, corn doesn’t need as much fertilizer N. The common perception is that because soybean is a legume, it adds to the overall N supply in the soil. Let’s take a closer look at what is going on with this credit.

The credit itself amounts to a reduction in fertilizer N ranging somewhere between 20 and 60 lb N/A, depending on the recommendation system. It can even be more in some cases. Some universities recommend a fl at rate reduction, while others vary the credit based on soybean yield. Still others use a combination of the two. Common to all of them is that the credit is based on a comparison to a continuous corn system, which typically takes more N to grow a corn crop to the same yield level.

So does corn following soybean use less N or should we really think of it as the continuous corn crop needing more N? It all depends on which one is used as the basis of comparison. A continuous corn crop has more residue that is higher in C. Soil N can be immobilized for a time by soil microorganisms as they utilize the C in this residue, reducing the N available in the soil. Adding the additional 20 to 60 lb N/A makes up for the immobilized N and may also speed the organic matter mineralization process.

Contrary to common perception, levels of nitrate in the soil are often lower after a soybean crop than they are after a corn crop. Soybeans get their N either from the nitrate already present in the soil or from the N fixed by the bacteria present in the nodules. The more nitrate present in the soil, the less comes from the nodules. Consequently, soybeans actually deplete, rather than increase, soil nitrate levels.

So where does the “extra” N come from following a soybean crop? It is currently thought that exudates from soybean roots, as well as the roots themselves, increase a pool of organic N that is easily mineralizable. In the Midwest and Northern Corn Belt, this N becomes available early enough in the season that it reduces the fertilizer N needed, leading to the credit. However, in the warmer, more humid southeast U.S., this N can be mineralized too early in the season, resulting in no credit. In fact, many states in the southeast U.S. do not have a soybean credit.

The soybean credit therefore appears to have more to do with the soybean root system than with the above-ground stem, leaf, and pod residue left after harvest. Consequently, a late season disaster like hail damage wouldn’t be expected to reduce the N credit much if the crop was near maturity when it happened. In fact, it likely increases the credit since the high N soybean seed is left in the field and will quickly mineralize once contact with the soil occurs. The magnitude of this credit will be influenced by the duration of warm soil temperatures and the amount of precipitation received afterward in the fall and subsequently in the spring.

The N credit is more than a number. Although it is a simple part of recommendations, it actually reflects a complex set of reactions in soils. Having a better understanding of the science behind the credit can help advisers make adjustments under changing conditions.

I hope that explains corn following soybean nitrogen question. Clover or alfalfa is a far better choice to follow with corn, which is why I suggested planting the corn into existing clover as opposed to planting at the same time. Both will work, but there are clear advantages to planting into the existing clover.
 
In my experience I would not try planting into existing clover. Even if a planter creates a planting gap in the clover it closes quickly in the time it takes corn to germinate. Broadcasting clover after corn or beans are up only allows the clover to grow in the open rows due to sunlight exposure especially beans. When I did this with beans the following spring there were only rows of clover growing. I drilled sunflowers into the clover rows and the young seedlings struggled as the clover quickly filled in the space. The sunflowers were set back big time but they did eventually grow but not like they should. Just the experience I've had.
 
Thanks fellas, for the great info. It's not confusing to me - I got it. :confused::D What you've described makes sense. Maybe we'll add fertilizer this spring as we plant that long strip to corn and then go to clover after it to prepare for a corn rotation after THAT.

Hey - that made me think - could we plant clover into the corn this coming fall as the corn starts to break down? A lot of guys on these threads say clover starts best in the fall. What do you guys think of that possibility? Not enough sun exposure?
 
I would say yes to planting in fall into corn. Stalks typically breakdown and depending on row spacing should allow sunlight to the clover. Clover doesn't neccessarily require full sunlight anyways.
 
If you have a way to broadcast it, it is a great way to start your clover. Large farm operations fly on clover and small grains in the fall with planes, I can't see how it wouldn't work with food plots.
 
More than likely you won't see a lot of growth until the following spring though. Corn stalks break down the most through winter.
 
Thanks again, guys, for the info & opinions. We'll let the corn stand so the deer have a little security when eating in it thru the winter. We did the corn/let it stand thing before and the stalks do break down pretty well ( with help from bears ). After reading how you farming guys rotate crops using legumes to fix N, I wondered how best to use that method to cut our fertilizer bill for future corn plantings. If you fellas think fall clover seeding into the corn will work, we'll give it a shot. Not gonna bale the clover, it's just for the N and whatever feed it provides the deer while fixing the N. Thank-you again, guys!
 
What works for me....
I plant mix first year that white clover is the most abundant survivor the following spring. The following spring early as possible (May 1st past year) fertilize & lime as needed then till in all about 3" depth 1 pass. I then plant RR corn as with conventional 2 row planter. Corn does not like neighbors during early stage of growth. White clover is strong survivor and can be hard to eliminate once established a full year and handles round up quite well if needed . A good percentage will survive this process.

June 21, 2014
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July 19 2014

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Did having the clover in the corn prevent the corn from making ears? ( competition for nutrients )
 
Google "Planting corn into suppressed clover" there are a ton of university studies that show growth and yields as good or better than planting into bare soil and with minimum N inputs. They explain the best procedures for using this planting method.
 
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