Prok American Persimmon

[Mahindra3016]

Does anyone have experience with Prok American Persimmon in zone 6 ? I have no other Persimmon trees, I read some places that the trees are self pollinated and other places said they are not self pollinated. I have pears and apples, always looking for more variety.

 

[chickenlittle]

I bark grafted some Prok last spring but have no more experience than that. Zone 6a in central PA. I also grafted Yates and Meader.

The farm has 3 producing female trees of unknown variety (or seedling) that may be somewhat self-fruitful. The mature male tree blew over a few years ago in a storm. It is a mess of stump sprouting suckers but I doubt it is flowering much. I'm not aware of any other mature persimmons beyond these.

 

[yoderjac]

Does anyone have experience with Prok American Persimmon in zone 6 ? I have no other Persimmon trees, I read some places that the trees are self pollinated and other places said they are not self pollinated. I have pears and apples, always looking for more variety.

I have them in zone 7A. American persimmons are not self-pollinating in general. They are dioecious with male and female trees. On occasion you will find an individual tree that has both male and female branches. These are generally called "perfect" trees. While I don't believe there are any American persimmon varieties that are truly self fertile. That is, if you bag a flower you won't get a fruit. There may be some varieties that have more of a propensity for having some male branches. I have not found that to be the case with the Prok that I have. I have seen no male flowers on them.

You can pick up ungrafted trees for very low cost from most state forestry departments. Many of these will be male. You can either plant them or simply get some male scions and bud graft a male branch on your trees. Also, if you are in the native range of persimmons, you may not need a pollinator. Persimmons are not wind pollinated like chestnut, they are insect pollinated. There are often male trees around in the native range of persimmons that will provide pollen. The male could be a mile away with insect pollination.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Mahindra3016]

To be more specific, Stark brothers have Prok listed as self pollinating. I have two open spots reserved for the trees near tree stands, that is where i will plant the prok trees. I could then get some seedlings and hope for male trees and plant in other locations. Hopefully in 6-7 years my Chestnuts and sawtooths will be producing, along with some persimmons, We already have a lot of wild pear and apple, and i have been grafting some of those over for later drop times, i should have a lot of food in a few years. I will be the only one around here with chestnuts and persimmons. Some of the neighbors know i have been planting trees, but i haven't told anybody what kinds. Some things you got to keep to yourself lol.

 

[yoderjac]

There has been discussion amongst the experts over self pollinating American persimmon varieties. Probably the most controversial was Meader. Because it was developed outside the range of wild persimmons and produced fruit, it was thought to be self pollinating. Experts who bagged flowers found it produced no fruit. Jerry Lehman, probably the foremost expert since Claypool on persimmons suggested at one point that pollen or something else was tricking the tree to produce fruit. In other words, some pollen from a non-persimmon tree had the right characteristics to make the flower think it was pollenated, but not being actual compatible persimmon pollen, the fruit did not produce viable seeds because it was not genetically compatible. We also see this seedless effect when a northern strain persimmon is pollinated by a southern strain persimmon.

None of this really matters in practical terms. If you want to maximize production, you will want a known pollinator. It does not have to be a tree. You have several options here.

1) Buy a couple make trees and plant them instead of the grafted Prok. Wait for them to hit an inch in diameter, cut them down and bark graft them with Prok. Make the graft at about head height. During the graft maintenance period the tree will produce water sprouts below the graft that are normally removed. Do that until you are sure the graft has taken. Then, rather than removing all the water sprouts below the graft leave one or two as male branches.

2) Buy a couple male trees and plant them in other locations in addition to your grafted Prok

3) Buy and plant your Prok trees. After they are well established top work the tree adding a male branch to each tree. I have male trees and can send you scions or bud sticks when you are ready to graft.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Mahindra3016]

Thank you for all the info, I would have never thought to graft a male branch to them, i may have to take you up on that.

 

[yoderjac]

Thank you for all the info, I would have never thought to graft a male branch to them, i may have to take you up on that.

No problem. Just PM me when you want the scions. I typically take dormant scions in late Feb or early March since they are best preserved on the tree but I can take them earlier if you are south of me. I haven't done much in terms of t-budding or chip budding, so I can't advise on that, but I can provide bud sticks whenever the appropriate time is for that if you go that route.

Thanks,

Jack