trampledbyturtles
5 year old buck +
Haha
Plowing/Disking in the Fall
- Thread starter Victor Van Meter
- Start date
Haha
You failed, with aplomb, respectfully. Haha
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I agree 100%. Most of us want to see deer in our plots. I do a variety of plots - from throw n mow to disking down to bare dirt. I have never used a bottom plow and never will. The tillage method that works the best for me is what I call a “semi-till”. I do that by pulling a woods seeder set pretty high through established durana clover plots. The disk blades open about a two or three inch wide trough but there is four inches of undisturbed ground between the disk troughs. I seed the wheat which falls in the troughs and it comes up and establishes a quick green crop while the clover is still recovering from summer heat and drought. I doubt the disk blades go much more than a couple inches deep - this is the method I prefer. My tnm are on plots I can live without - and I have never had a tnm that I consider a great plot. I have had a number of failures and a number of get by plots - and the deer use is comparable to the success of the plot. Never even hunted one of my tnm plots because deer use is not nearly as high as deer use in my more conventional plots. I have no other ag in my area. I have use by individual deer for hours at a time. Even have deer bed in the plots. It may be true deer dont need my plots - but I believe in a lot of cases - they are getting a lot of food from my plots.
Crimson n' Camo
5 year old buck +
You have to understand the "how to" and the "why" of planting this way before you can insure success... In other words, once you understand it better the you will see the issue you just had coming and tweak things a little to compensate. If I saw my thatch was going to be to thick then I might have very lightly tilled it....or I might have mowed it taller and not put some much on the ground....or I might have just dragged the seed in. I would have adapted to the situation. Some seeds do better at handling the thicker thatch....It takes a really thick crop of hay to smother out cereal rye but it doesnt take a whole lot to choke out somethin like clover. Again, you just have to have an understanding of how things are working to use a new method like this and have success....
Attached are 3 WSJ articles (2017, 2019, yesterday) about farm debt in relation to production agriculture; as mom/pop farms continue to give way to large corporate farms, will change occur more rapidly because of economies of scale issues? Ain't no farmer ... just live/hunt in the highest corn/bean producing county in the U.S. and most farmers here engage in reduced tillage practices on corn (chisel plowing #1). As for bean fields, most apply fall nitrogen (rotating to corn for the next year), lots of lime piles on field entrance edges of field right now, and some will do a couple of loops around the outside edges of the field to stop weed encroachment (I doubt the yield increase from this tillage covers their cost of fuel). Many of these farmers farm 2500-4000 acres and say they aren't willing to gamble with a wet/cold spring. I'd say the southern 40% of Illinois (from Mattoon-Effingham area south) is where you find much less fall cultivation of any form. If you hunt waterfowl in harvested cornfields, any type of tillage can be a tough go!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-next-american-farm-bust-is-upon-us-1486572488
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-has-been-bad-for-farmers-11551916875
https://www.wsj.com/articles/farmer...interest-loans-as-banks-pull-back-11573381801
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-next-american-farm-bust-is-upon-us-1486572488
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-has-been-bad-for-farmers-11551916875
https://www.wsj.com/articles/farmer...interest-loans-as-banks-pull-back-11573381801
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Like with anything TIMING is a critical part of the equation. Can you elaborate more on when your summer plots were planted, what was in those plots the previous planting, what seeds your summer plots consisted of, your planting method of fall seeding into your summer plots, and what those seeds consisted of? Pictures of your summer plots before planting your fall mix would also be helpful if you have them.
I would broadcast, mow, then spray so you aren't matting down the thatch before broadcasting any more than you have to.
I have not had a problem with the previous crops inhibiting germination on my TNM plots. This is the first year with a diverse summer annual planting for me and I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into for next spring.
I am just envisioning for next year I will have standing mature sunflowers, milo, and soybeans stalks with a green mat of rye coming through and some kale that will more than likely make it through winter and be bolting early next planting season. I cant see this being any problem at all but....
I would have preferred planting awnless winter barley this past fall but I couldn't get my hands on any. With this being said I think after I broadcast my seed into last years dead standing crop with this green carpet coming through I'm going to have to spray after rolling just in case the roller doesn't terminate the rye. I dont foresee last years thatch inhibiting anything but I could be wrong.
I will be planting these same plots with a similar summer annual mix about the first week in June. (when the soil will be warm and germination will happen sooner) I will be planting the earliest maturing soybean I can get my hands on to help get more sunlight to the ground for my fall "cover crop" planting. I leave my summer plot stand and plant into it similar to how Rit plots.
This years summer mix: ON 1/2 ACRE planted TNM method plante first week of June no herbicide use into previous winter barley plot
50# Milo/soybean mix: medium-height Milo with a tall bushy non gmo soybean
50# DS Admiral field pea
5# sunflowers (unsure of variety they came from the MN deer hunters association)
1# of Kestral Kale
3 small packets of pumpkin seed (dont recall variety but they were a small sweet variety)
50# winter rye planted Labor Day weekend
Next years summer mix: ON 1/2 ACRE planted throw and roll method first week of June with herbicide into mature 2018 summer plot and winter rye regrowth
25# organic soybean with a 0.7RM
10# cow peas
5# wildlife grain sorghum (Milo that stand 26-30" high)
1# Winfred forage brassica
6 small packets of pumpkins
(I'm going to skip the sunflowers and see what I get for volunteer growth)
S.T. I'm impressed you can get away with that summer mixture on 1/2 acre. No chance that size summer plot would work here.
Curiosity question: Why organic soybean seed? I have never understood the value of buying organic seed vs. conventional though my vegetable garden is purely organic and has been since the beginning of time. While my plots are not organic per se, they are darn close. Appreciate any discussion on organic seed vs. conventional
Curiosity question: Why organic soybean seed? I have never understood the value of buying organic seed vs. conventional though my vegetable garden is purely organic and has been since the beginning of time. While my plots are not organic per se, they are darn close. Appreciate any discussion on organic seed vs. conventional
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
First off there is plenty of ag in my area and the dpsm isn't that "impressive". On the one property we also have 37 acres where these plots are in what some would call "weeds" that the deer get a lot of browse from.
Some of these posts could be part of another thread but... When given a choice deer WILL chose non gmo crops first. It has been proven on our farm (one side organic the other side not) I have also heard the same from area farmers that converted to organic and have seen an increase in crop damage in the process.
Modern gmo crop residue takes a much longer time to break down. When planting with the TNM or roll method as well as notill I think it is a better choice to plant a crop where the soil biology will break the residue down faster (converting it into free 100% plant available fertilizer) I still use herbicide once in a while but when I get my roller crimper perfected I hope I can stop using spray.
And on that note I found that rolled clover responds just as well as mowed clover FWIW.
Good to know about the clover. I was gonna wait until the summer heat wears out my oats and crimson/arrowleaf/red clover mix and do a summer plot without spraying. Gonna roll with the Firminator cultipacker and maybe try to float the discs for some extra "crimp"
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Can you explain this? I'm curious as to why this would be?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Can you explain that a bit further. It is my understanding that the only difference between GMO and Non-GMO soybean and corn seed is simply the gene splice that makes it resistant to glyphosate. Is there something I'm missing? I can certainly see how when combined with gly to reduce competition one could get stronger crops that would talk more time to break down, but I don't see how the genetic modification itself has an impact on the residue breakdown process.
Thanks,
Jack
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
I am not sure of the exact ins and outs of it either. As far as crop residue is concerned modern crops (especially corn) are bread for increased standability. (because over the years out soil had been turned into dirt and poses many new problems that need to offset by new breeding efforts) The stalks are basically small trees now with ears of corn growing on them. Even when plowed under it takes much longer to break them down than it once did.
As far as preference goes I think it's just one of those things that wildlife can sense. I did a fair amount of reading on it last winter an when comparing todays RR hybreds to heirloom open pollinated corn is concerned, Heirloom varieties have substantially higher nutrient values. The elevators only pay based on bushels and todays RR hybreds yield tremendously higher than older varieties.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
That makes more sense to me. It is not GMO vs Non-GMO, it is modern breeds vs older breeds. It is simply that most modern breeds happen to be GMO.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
I'll go with that.
Belchertown Bowman
5 year old buck +
"""" It is my understanding that the only difference between GMO and Non-GMO soybean and corn seed is simply the gene splice that makes it resistant to glyphosate. """"
This is not exactly correct.
You can modify genes to do many things. Currently the most common is Round up Resistance but you can also modify for drought resistance insect resistance and many more. Some Gene Mods can make plants glow in the dark. Who knows what mods are just around the corner,.. ?
Here is one helpful sight:
http://www.gmotesting.com/GMOs/Types-of-GMOs
This is not exactly correct.
You can modify genes to do many things. Currently the most common is Round up Resistance but you can also modify for drought resistance insect resistance and many more. Some Gene Mods can make plants glow in the dark. Who knows what mods are just around the corner,.. ?
Here is one helpful sight:
http://www.gmotesting.com/GMOs/Types-of-GMOs
Interesting. I understand the difference between organic seeds and GMO seeds. I haven't planted a GMO anything in over 15 years. We don't eat GMO plants and I'm not going to grow them on my farm for a variety of reason. Nor do I drench any crop growing for wildlife with herbicide or pesticide { read poisons } . My goal is to grow healthy high quality deer with nutrient dense plantings. Not pretty crops.
Where I have been uncertain is the difference between organic seed vs. conventional. I've yet to understand any value of an organically grown seed over conventional especially at food plot scale but would be keen to learn.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I wasn't suggesting you can't use gene splicing for all kinds of characteristic modifications, but I think most of today's seed characteristics were determined by traditional crossbreeding programs and only a few were through gene splicing.
Thanks,
Jack
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
It has to do with natural selection of parent plants with the best traits for your area. A conventional "seed field" is grown with high inputs on generally poor soils. The seeds that the parent plant produces are going to be seeds that produce a plant that is dependent on those same high inputs.
https://thegoodheartlife.com/organic-vs-conventional-need-buy-organic-seeds/
https://thegoodheartlife.com/organic-vs-conventional-need-buy-organic-seeds/
We’ve been failing pretty miserably at TnM for five plus years. Perhaps we’re doing what is best for the soil “long term.” But choosing to have an attractive food plot is already sub-optimal with respect to soil health, compared to other different land use strategies. How much worse would i be offending if I used some tillage? I know my old man is getting impatient. “Long term” isn’t too much fun, from where I’m sitting; and I imagine the farmers in the OP feel much the same.
