Ohio River Valley winter deer patterns

[j-bird]

Last night I saw something I had never seen before near my place. There was a group of at least a dozen deer! Many of you may laugh at that, but this is both exciting and cause for worry for me. My area has routinely had a low deer density - in the nearly 20 years of being where I am a "big" group of deer is 4 or 5. Seeing this large group tells me that my numbers are growing and I figured that, but I am now concerned about just how many we may have - that is another topic though.

#1 - deer do not "yard up" in my area like they do up north, but I have noticed that they seem to travel in larger groups than at other times of the year. Have those of you in IN, OH, KY or IL seen the same thing?

#2 - why would the deer do this? Why would they be much more content in their own family groups all year long and then once winter rolls around be more likely to intermingle these family groups?

Winter is still our "stress period" but my winters are rather mild (we average an annual snowfall of like 18") and I live in farm country so there is food - they just have to work harder for it in the winter.

 

[Terrific_tom]

More than likely a doe with her doe offsprings and thier fawns. Not very uncommon the farther North you get. Also the better you make your habitat the more the deer will stick around your property.

 

[j-bird]

Tom - I agree that the small family group are typically does with the fawns and in some cases even an additional generation. But I had over a dozen in 1 group! That's not a doe and her fawns - that has to be several family groups together. Why would they do this in the winter, but not so much during other times of the year?

 

[wiscwhip]

If you had a group of yotes move through a nearby area, deer, like any other prey animal, know they have strength in numbers. They will herd up to protect themselves from predators, especially during the vulnerable months of winter. If you are in ag country with broken scattered woodlots, and I assume you are, yotes could very well be the cause. Yotes could have moved through a small woodlot, chasing those deer into the next wooded area, and then followed them to that woodlot, effectively chasing those deer and the residents of the new area out to another woodlot, and so forth. Not uncommon at all. This is the same reason that deer are easy for humans to target with deer drives in areas like this. You drive one woods, chase the deer to the next woods, drive that woods, chase them into another, etc., all the while picking one or two off with each subsequent drive. I know an extended family group with multiple farms in close proximity in SE MN that does this very thing to keep their doe populations in check(one of the only groups of guys I know there that shoot does), they drive one woods, shoot the baldies that run out, watch where they run into and then go drive that woods, and so on, until they kill as many as they deem necessary that season. They have killed as many as 11 does in one day with this method over a couple thousand acres on 4 farms. Easy pickins'!

 

[Terrific_tom]

Tom - I agree that the small family group are typically does with the fawns and in some cases even an additional generation. But I had over a dozen in 1 group! That's not a doe and her fawns - that has to be several family groups together. Why would they do this in the winter, but not so much during other times of the year?

I should of explained better. Let's say you had a doe [Matriarch ] 4 years ago who had a doe fawn. The next year in winter that doe would have 2 fawns with her plus the fawn from year before to give you 4 deer total. Now the next year your original doe has 2 fawns, the yearling doe from 4 years ago has 2 fawns and the older does fawns from last year for a total of 7 deer. Now the next year you have at least 3 adult does with 2 fawns each plus the doe fawns from the previous year which would give you 12 deer. This is asumming that the does have 2 fawns each year and each doe has a buck and doe fawn. We use to have this all the time in Wisconsin Northwoods until the DNR issued unlimited antlerless tags. This destroyed family groups which in my opinion has contributed to the suvival of deer in Northwoods and slowing the recovery of deer numbers. I may have got my numbers mixed a little but you should be able to get what I am saying.

 

[Terrific_tom]

Another way to tell if they are a family group is to watch if there is any fighting when they are on a food source. If it is a couple of different family groups you will see does rear up on back legs if a deer from different group gets to close to where they are feeding.

 

[Brush Creek]

I am on the SE side of the St Paul area of MN. I see the same thing in my area. Bigger groups in the winter and they are not yarding up near me either.

 

[Reagan]

I hunt mostly in SE Ohio which has areas of wood lots in farm ground and some areas with a big woods feel with little agriculture. I have seen what you describe at different times over the last 20-25 years and it has taken place in both kinds of habitat. When I saw it 20 years ago, yotes were pretty rare so I don't think they caused it.

Each time I have seen it in January. There were groups of 20-40 deer traveling together. Our deer don't migrate or yard up but there is something regarding food or cover that can concentrate them occasionally. In these areas we do have a lot of deer but when 20+ walk by at one time, it is very unusual.

You are in agg country so there should be a lot of food. I wouldn't get too concerned unless you see this type of thing all year.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

j-bird - I see this type of thing most years here in NE PA. we have a much more severe winter than what you likely have...but in no ways would i characterize what i see here as yarding. We have a mix of farmland and big woods....and i see it more in the farmland than in big woods...although i have definitely seen in the big woods. I have attributed what i see to what some have already stated....in the farmland in particular...i wouldn't say that there is plenty of food, unless there is a substantial amount of corn left standing (most year in my neighborhood there are 3-4 fields with at least some corn left in them). The rest of the fields are hayfields of clover, some alfalfa and grasses. the hayfields dont see much attention once the snow gets deep enough and the harvested cornfields see some action as they dig for spilled grain. I would also say that the overall deer density is enough that the woodlots and areas with woody browse are overbrowsed...especially during the winter months.

all that said, what i see is that the local doe groups bunch up, because the food sources are concentrated and the winter thermal bedding cover is also limited. so the does congregate on the same food sources and bedding cover. I also tend to see bucks get right back into the bachelor groups come January. I also think that what whip said holds water...maybe not the only underlying reason for them bunching up but there is safety in numbers with more eyes, ears, and noses on alert for predators like yotes that seem to thrive in snow when targeting deer.

Since this sounds like a new phenomenon to your place...and from what you have said about your deer numbers before...this could become the new normal as you improve your property and offer food and cover. You should absolutely look at your current level of woody browse (which i saw that you have started this based on your other recent threads) and plan to increase it as much as you can to try to get ahead of the "new normal"....and be prepared to take does out when needed.

 

[j-bird]

I have already had a timber harvest and do lots of TSI type things as it is. So far my plots last thru the winter, but if these larger groups become the norm that may change. My area doesn't have much hay field it is all corn or soybean and then late planted winter wheat. It was just really odd to see that many deer in one spot like that. I figure we may have to have a decent flat-top effort come next fall. This observation yesterday just drives home the idea that I need to keep a closer eye on things from a browse and plot perspective.

 

[j-bird]

well it wasn't a fluke. Came home again last night and the field had a dozen or so deer feeding in the cut cornfield. I know where they are coming from and I think I may even have an idea of why. Normally I have corn or soybeans planted in my plots. Last year I wasn't able to get those planted and instead simply planted fall plots. Well the weather conditions here has caused the brassica bulbs to start to rot and go soft and the leaves are all soggy and brown. The wheat and rye are not green and dormant as well. We simply had the cold temps but not the snow cover to protect them. As such food availability is lower than normal and it isn't as spread out like it normally is on my place. I think the deer have found what they can and as such are taking advantage. I will certainly plant corn and beans again this spring and make it a point to continue to do so.

 

[chummer]

I used to see this all the time when I was a kid in ag country. Not anymore, a big group now is 4 deer. I see it now in the big woods. Deer yard up next to our property and it is for two reasons. There are a lot of hemlocks and a river that does not freeze. If this is new to you then you are doing something right, enjoy the increased numbers. Just think in three months it could be 20!

 

[j-bird]

Based on my rough figures and general red-neck math I figure my deer density has doubled in 10 to 15 years. Now that being said I think it went from roughly 15 to 30 dpsm. My limited amount of cover (roughly 300 acres over 2 square miles) means my actual deer numbers grew from an average of 8 to 16. Now I only control 150 acres of those 2 square miles. Now I have to consider a shift in practices to keep that number in balance with the habitat. I need to improve my monitoring process - not sure how just yet. I may even look into possibly adding a hunter to the property or some means to justify taking additional deer.

 

[wiscwhip]

I may even look into possibly adding a hunter to the property or some means to justify taking additional deer.

If you do this, check into being a mentor for a youth hunter or a first time hunter, that way you can teach them something and keep an eye on them. It is a great feeling knowing you got someone hooked on hunting and that they will be able to carry that experience with them for the rest of their life.

 

[j-bird]

Yep - been down that road before. I have taken my own kids as well as kid of other relatives. Remember some of those hunts better than some of my own.

 

[bueller]

I think "yarding" is a relative term. In true "yarding" areas like upper Michigan for an example, the deer relocate to "yarding" areas in large numbers. However in some sense of the term "yarding" I believe most deer herds in northern locations, including Indiana, do "yard" up to some extent. I've seen here in chicago in the overpopulated forest preserves. For whatever reason during the winter the deer "yard" up into groups much larger than the rest of the year. I believe they do this because during the winter they move much less and bed very close to their food sources. This lack of movement naturally creates a "yarding" type bedding situation vs a more layered type bedding common during the rest of the year when the deer are moving about much more.