Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Albert ... you sharing the what & why behind the products you sell, as opposed to big buck allusions, is what really separates you guys from the other BOB seed guys. Your contributions are much appreciated here.
Ohio Farm Tours
- Thread starter Buckhunter10
- Start date
Albert ... you sharing the what & why behind the products you sell, as opposed to big buck allusions, is what really separates you guys from the other BOB seed guys. Your contributions are much appreciated here.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Again, sincerely thank you. I don’t do this for recognition but I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t feel good when people appreciate my long rambling write ups and such. Really can’t tell you how much I appreciate it.
Please reach out anytime. If I can help someone I am happy to try!
I am always learning more!
Albert
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Carbon Load is in stock and shipping now!!
We have been getting some questions on the inoculant and the @tainiobiologicals products.
1. First off we are now adding a custom inoculant to each order that has a humic based and is a broad spectrum biological inoculant for N fixation and uptake across all cover crops in our mix. This is at no cost to the consumer. However, I’d your not a carbon load customer - you can buy this from us to use on any and all seed types to maximize germination and nutrient uptake.
2. We also offer our Tainio products - the spectrum+myco is a great addition to any seed coat and acts as an insurance policy to ensure we are maximizing our fungi and good bacteria in the soil.
3. The micro 5000 is another great product that can be used as a seed coat or sprayed on as a foliar. When sprayed on the micro 5000 works to stimulate the endophytes on the plants surface and help communicate micro nutrient solubility in the soil profile. This alone can be a great stress mitigation tool. This product works off the rhizophagey cycle via Dr. James White.
None of these are silver bullets but all of them are solid insurance policies for helping our plants get off to a good start, establish healthy roots, and communications within the soil profile. These can all be used with any product on the market but we prefer them with our diverse fall blend - Carbon Load!!
Check is out at vitalizeseed.com
We have been getting some questions on the inoculant and the @tainiobiologicals products.
1. First off we are now adding a custom inoculant to each order that has a humic based and is a broad spectrum biological inoculant for N fixation and uptake across all cover crops in our mix. This is at no cost to the consumer. However, I’d your not a carbon load customer - you can buy this from us to use on any and all seed types to maximize germination and nutrient uptake.
2. We also offer our Tainio products - the spectrum+myco is a great addition to any seed coat and acts as an insurance policy to ensure we are maximizing our fungi and good bacteria in the soil.
3. The micro 5000 is another great product that can be used as a seed coat or sprayed on as a foliar. When sprayed on the micro 5000 works to stimulate the endophytes on the plants surface and help communicate micro nutrient solubility in the soil profile. This alone can be a great stress mitigation tool. This product works off the rhizophagey cycle via Dr. James White.
None of these are silver bullets but all of them are solid insurance policies for helping our plants get off to a good start, establish healthy roots, and communications within the soil profile. These can all be used with any product on the market but we prefer them with our diverse fall blend - Carbon Load!!
Check is out at vitalizeseed.com
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
One of the best parts of owning this company is getting to meet folks like you all! This is from a customer in Ohio - loving the diversity.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Summer time foodplots -
Often we want to see a huge buck - who doesn’t?! However, what is the goal of a summer time foodplot?
Here at Vitalize our goal is to produce a ton of biomass and fast. We want to fix N and balance the C:N. We want to feed our local herd and prep our soils for Fall plantings via biological activity.
With a 5 weeks left to go before planting - this field is rocking and feeding deer and soil - as good as we could dream, regardless of the earlier drought.
Often we want to see a huge buck - who doesn’t?! However, what is the goal of a summer time foodplot?
Here at Vitalize our goal is to produce a ton of biomass and fast. We want to fix N and balance the C:N. We want to feed our local herd and prep our soils for Fall plantings via biological activity.
With a 5 weeks left to go before planting - this field is rocking and feeding deer and soil - as good as we could dream, regardless of the earlier drought.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
I have seen some regenerative ag videos on YouTube where farmers were top dressing fertilizer on their crops and all the P and K stayed in the top 1/4 to 1/2" of the soil profile. Then they turned the soil over and their soybean yields went up ~15 bushel/acre compared to the no till side where they plant wasn't able to use the nutrients.
I say all that to ask the question about regenerative food plotting... how do the plants on a cycle such as the vitalize program or other no-till applications eventually get P and K down into the growing zone? Just from the nutrient cycling and plant breakdown? I see and hear you guys talking about C:N ratios but can you explain how that satisfies the P and K needed for many plants/legumes?
Thanks!
I say all that to ask the question about regenerative food plotting... how do the plants on a cycle such as the vitalize program or other no-till applications eventually get P and K down into the growing zone? Just from the nutrient cycling and plant breakdown? I see and hear you guys talking about C:N ratios but can you explain how that satisfies the P and K needed for many plants/legumes?
Thanks!
SD51555
5 year old buck +
There's 10,000 years worth of P and K in most soils. Soils don't need P & K because it isn't there. They need P & K because the soil ecology is dead and the plants must be fed purchased soluble nutrients, much like a coma patient with a feeding tube. Living soil has a food web that is always breaking down the rock bound nutrients all throughout the growing season and feeding the living plants.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Great question!! I am familiar with that farmer.
So one - I would never suggest surface/broadcasting P and K. K can move in a lighter soil but he is in IL. We know that broadcasted P doesn’t move but 1-2inches. I have some growers that want to fill and I always suggest if they till in P that’s ok but without tillage it’s not worth the money. Or if a persons running it in a 2by2 on a planter (most plotters don’t have that option). In his case he’s doing a one time tillage then going back to no till. I believe he hasn’t filled in 15 years and still had good yields in mono cropping - pretty impressive!!
So how do we combat this with diverse systems - specifically no till? We are maximizing soil biology. So not only, do we have the benefits of various root structures and plants each assimilating different nutrients. With the absents of tillage and highly diversity - our soils overtime will become more fungal dominated Vs. Bacterial. This is important for P solubility specifically as well as being able to breakdown surface thatch faster - specific
To higher lignin filled crops.
Every situation is different and sometimes tillage is needed (not often but I had a case this week it was 100% needed). I also will say that conventional soil tests (say M3) typically show only a small portion of what’s available. If and when using tillage - i always recommend a mycorrhizal seed treatment following that planting to help stimulate some of the damaged fungal networks.
To put this all back into perspective- I took
Above ground tissue tests last year. No fert has ever been on this soil. Above ground biomass per acre of the NitroBoost (on two different fields with very different soils)
N- 45lbs per acre
P - 22lbs per acre
K -85lbs per acre
That’s a lot of above ground biomass. This does not then account for root mass, bacterial biomass, OM mineralization, etc.
In soils with really low CECs or overall very degraded we can foliar apply nutrients to trickle feed the plant.
I hope this is helpful.
Ps. Post 121 in this thread highlights more of this and some of Willlie P. (Forget his last name) work on pfla testing of soil systems.
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Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Even when a plot looks lush - the importance of an exclusion fence is so critical.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Here is another small field on the farm - planted in NitroBoost. This 13 way diverse mix is providing a ton of browsable forage for wildlife and a pile of nutrients for our soils.
Soon this field will be planted with our 16 way fall blend that will feed soil and wildlife from the time it’s planted to next Spring when we plant NitroBoost again.
The system is easy and flat works to cycle nutrients, feed soil, and feed deer.
Thanks to all who support us - we greatly appreciate you all!
Soon this field will be planted with our 16 way fall blend that will feed soil and wildlife from the time it’s planted to next Spring when we plant NitroBoost again.
The system is easy and flat works to cycle nutrients, feed soil, and feed deer.
Thanks to all who support us - we greatly appreciate you all!
Brian662
5 year old buck +
How will you terminate the nitro boost on the field in this photo?
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
I’ll evaluate it when I get close. If there isn’t a ton of weed pressure - I’ll drill through it and leave it. That’s what I did last year on this field (except I just broadcasted).
If there is a good bit of weed pressure - I’ll likely spray after I drill or drill heavy and mow.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Carbon load!!
I am so excited about this mix!
Triticale
Rye grain
Winter wheat
Oats
Austrian winter peas
Buckwheat
Hairy vetch
Crimson clover
Chicory
Frosty berseem clover
Fixation balansa clover
Daikon radish
Winfred forage brassica
Purple top turnip
Barkant turnip
Pasja forage turnip
Maximized diversity and maximized balance. Feeding soil and wildlife from planting to next planting (be it next Spring or even Fall!)!!
I am so excited about this mix!
Triticale
Rye grain
Winter wheat
Oats
Austrian winter peas
Buckwheat
Hairy vetch
Crimson clover
Chicory
Frosty berseem clover
Fixation balansa clover
Daikon radish
Winfred forage brassica
Purple top turnip
Barkant turnip
Pasja forage turnip
Maximized diversity and maximized balance. Feeding soil and wildlife from planting to next planting (be it next Spring or even Fall!)!!
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Good stuff. I've got low P & K on my ground that was long standing hay fields and I believe prior owners allowed neighbors to hay for free with the idea that keeping it cut was desirable. So I don't think anything has been done for fertility in a very long time but instead nutrients have long been hauled off in hay bales. I have a no-till drill and was thinking I'd surface broadcast pellet NPK for a couple years to get fertility back and then just keep things rolling with diverse mixes. It seems like the $ I have in DAP and Potash may be $ spent in vain (have gotten 8-18 CEC ratings)?
If foliar fertilizer would be a good way to go for me up front, what products should I be looking at for use in an ATV sprayer?
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Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Jerry Forage and Just a fall forage variety Triticale
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
So I am not as worried about K in a broadcast method but I wouldn’t spend money on P that way.
P is well documented to be tied up and freed through sound soil management practices that aid themselves to phosphorus solubility - example a fungi dominated system over time. For more information read or YouTube Dr. Christine Jones phosphorus paradox
K also has quite a bit of research about there being K tied up between the clay layers that’s not extractable via acid extraction methods at labs but overtime with roots and biology - it becomes very available. For more information checkout Dr. Rick Mulvaney University Illinois.
I’m am not against the use of N but I think we can get away with far far less than needed but when just starting in a highly degraded system - giving the plants a boost might be worth while.
Now - where can we get our P and K. Again focusing on biology is huge. Increasing mycorrhizal networks is essentially increasing the root mass by volume. This is increasing the opportunity to make the P and K in the soil profile available - these both natural exist in organic and inorganic forms. Such as geological (slow breakdown over time from weathering) or OM (faster breakdown assuming we have good biological cycling).
So where do tell people to look/ consider
I love Bio seed treatments - we offer them with our seed but also sell it separately for those who want to use/make their own mixes. It’s biology and humic base mixed for better germination. There are other brands out there as well.
We use Tainio I love their spectrum+myco - it uses bacteria and a fungi treatment on seeds.
As for foliar products there are a lot out there and they can get pricy. I would suggest trying a few and see what you like. Some can even be organic certified - which might be of interest. Like fish hydrolosate which can have plant available Amino acids aiding less stressful plant protein conversion.
In summary
Soil test - let’s look at your ph and base sats
Rock diversity
Consider biological seed treatments to jump start program
Consider foliar feeding plants to aid in growth to start
Monitor deer browse
And have fun!
I hope this helps!
Albert
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Healthy plants have healthy roots. Healthy roots communicate with a healthy microbial system including fungi and bacteria.
In the last two years we’ve seen so many highly degraded systems we decided we wanted to add our Seed Armr+inoculant free of charge for all Vitalize Seed orders.
However - we also want to offer to customers who don’t use our product but still want to give their biology, seeds and soil a jump start!
From helping nutrient uptake, N fixation, germination, and more - checkout our newest offering!
In the last two years we’ve seen so many highly degraded systems we decided we wanted to add our Seed Armr+inoculant free of charge for all Vitalize Seed orders.
However - we also want to offer to customers who don’t use our product but still want to give their biology, seeds and soil a jump start!
From helping nutrient uptake, N fixation, germination, and more - checkout our newest offering!
All Natural Seed Armor + Innoculant | Vitalize Seed Company
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
This picture may not look like much to some but to me - it shows months of hard work and planning.
When starting Vitalize Seed we wanted to offer the best quality, diverse mixes we could, help excite and educate folks on soil health, and most importantly - never stop learning.
Today we sent off a pile of soil samples and tissue samples of a very controlled experiment to further educate ourselves, friends and customers on what is having having quantifiable impacts on our biomass creation and biological activity below our feet - To be continued……
When starting Vitalize Seed we wanted to offer the best quality, diverse mixes we could, help excite and educate folks on soil health, and most importantly - never stop learning.
Today we sent off a pile of soil samples and tissue samples of a very controlled experiment to further educate ourselves, friends and customers on what is having having quantifiable impacts on our biomass creation and biological activity below our feet - To be continued……
