NWSG/Spruce

[younggun1849]

I have been thinking of a way to achieve planting pines or spruce, and not having to wait for 5-7 years before it begins to provide cover. Below is a sketch I put together of combining spruce or pine planting, with NWSG.



If you plant either pines or spruce in rows, and NWSG in strips between those rows, what would you think the optimal spacing between rows should be? I was thinking 12-15 foot rows, would allow for 6-9 foot strips of NWSG. Anybody see any issues with this? I think this would work really well for providing some immediate cover, while you let your pines/spruce grow. You could even burn the NWSG if you mow a few feet on both sides of the pines.

 

[Native Hunter]

Depending on where you are and what comes from the seedbank you might get good cover between the rows without planting NWSGs. I did the same type of thing but didn't use spruce. I used a mixture of hardwoods (including 8 oak species) and white pines, but did add a few spruce last year where other trees had died, and plan on adding some more. My land where this was done had a lot of tall goldenrod and other tall forbs in the seed bank that gave cover as good as NWSGs. I could mow this in the spring to go in and do tree maintenance, and by mid summer it would be grown back out, providing excellent cover. I did 13 feet rows, because I had a 10 foot bushhog, and that gave me a little room for error. This spacing might be a little too close for planting trees that will eventually become large, but some will die, and you can always thin later if necessary.

Your plan sounds fine, but I just wanted to point out that you might get some decent cover quickly without planting the NWSGs

Here are some pictures from last spring inside my planting when I was whacking gums that had volunteered:

Typical red oak:


Goldenrod just beginning to grow back near pines after being mowed earlier. These weeds will be over 6 feet tall before late summer.



Headed down a row that hadn't been mowed for several years. Look at the volunteer gum out in front of the tractor:



Entrance to the rows where I planted only pines for road screening:



This is looking out the back side where it meets my mature forest. I'm standing in a row after hogging. Oaks are heavy at this spot.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I would say it depends on whether you plan to plant them and let them go, or thin some out in the future. I've got some spruce at camp that are 18 - 20 yrs. old and they're about 12 ft. in dia. - 18 ft. tall. If you have rows 18 ft. apart, the trees would grow toward each other approx. 6 ft. ( roughly 12 ft. of space ) leaving 6 ft. of open area in between rows. If you're gonna thin some later, you could go closer like Native Hunter said.

 

[younggun1849]

12x12 spacing on the spruce. 6 foot wide grass would work. Mow don't burn the grass.

I'm considering planting this as a screen as well. 2 staggered rows of spruce, with switchgrass between the rows for immediate screening, and the spruce will fill in and enhance it as time goes on. What would you use for the spacing on this for screen as opposed to planting for cover?

 

[younggun1849]

Road screen? 3 rows staggered 9x9. Natural grasses will take care of the rest. Don't disc prior. I have converted 40 totals acres of ag to spruce bedding.

No road screens, screens to access stands and break fields up.

 

[Tree Spud]

The closer the spacing, the more likely you will experience lower branch die off. If your rows are only separated by 6-9', the die off of lower may impact the canopy height and thermal protection. As NF said, 9x9 is the minimum I would go.

 

[younggun1849]

I'm thinking 12 x 12 spacing with staggered rows, and a strip of switch grass in between them.

November, you said you planted 40 acres of spruce. Did you plant any pines? I'm wondering if I want to only plant spruce for screens and for cover. I don't like pines after they lose their bottom branches. I was considering in my 1 acre plantings for cover I might plant every other row of pines and spruce, but only spruce for the screens. Any thoughts on that idea?

 

[sandbur]

With 1 deer: acre I can't plant pine. They get snarled inside 1 week. White spruce die in wet soil. Ns do the best anywhere and don't get browsed.

I feel white spruce and especially black hills spruce do better on light soils.

At a point even spruce will not do well on blow sand. Jack pine and red cedar might be the best choice then.

 

[shawnv]

With 1 deer: acre I can't plant pine. They get snarfed inside 1 week. White spruce die in wet soil. Ns do the best anywhere and don't get browsed.

When you last planted pine was that before you had established plots and crops to ease browsing pressure?

 

[Tree Spud]

When you last planted pine was that before you had established plots and crops to ease browsing pressure?

Food plots & crops do not necessarily reduce browsing pressure.

They most likely will increasing browsing pressure as they will attract more deer and create higher deer densities.

 

[sandbur]

Food plots & crops do not necessarily reduce browsing pressure.

They most likely will increasing browsing pressure as they will attract more deer and create higher deer densities.

I would say that statement depends on the precise cuircumstances.

 

[wiscwhip]

If you have a deer population to spike, that is.

 

[Tree Spud]

Doubt it, but I sure hope you're right

He is right, he didn't say it will increase herd, just increase concentration in an area ... more deer, more browse ... better bedding where late season food sources ... more deer ...

 

[sandbur]

Planting ns/ thermals will spike your dpsm

I'm confused. What do you mean by planting Norway spruce thermals?

 

[Tree Spud]

I would say that statement depends on the precise cuircumstances.

Please list all those circumstances ... I was speaking generally to a broad based question.

Not sure where more food & ag crops were not an attractant ... :confused:

 

[sandbur]

The browsing pressure goes down when the corn and beans start to grow. The few deer we have spend nearly all of their time in the corn fields after it reaches waist height.

I have also found that many foodplot plantings are a waste of time, or else very close to a waste. So many are fun to grow, but just do not get much use.

Plus you have to have other deer to attract.

I am surrounded by food during much of the summer months. Corn, beans, and alfalfa.