Norway Spruce Screen Decisions

[Bowsnbucks]

I've also been told that it thrives in larger stands of hemlocks that will block the cold air in the winter. Single trees seem to be safer. Bows, they say typically above Route 80 is PA is safe. That sucks it's made it up to your camp. It's destroyed all of the large stands of hemlock here in central PA.

Thanks for that extra info, Pat. I hadn't heard of the cold-blocking of larger stands of hemlock. Unfortunately, the HWA has killed a couple BIG old hemlocks at camp - but now that you mention cold air hurts the bugs - the dead hemlocks are on the south side of our one ridge. They get lots of sun, so maybe the bugs had warmer winters in those locations?? The hemlocks on our wind-whipped, shaded, freezing north slopes don't seem to be affected.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I see On this thread about winter burn..is there any way to prevent it? I will be putting in a screen this spring with a mix of white pines, BHS and Norway spruce and would love to prevent losing many(or any) of the trees. Also, can other tree varieties winter burn? I am adding some Midwest crabs, hawthorns and hybrid poplars to the screen as well.

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^I have not seen WP or BHS winter burn on my land. Norway spruce on the other hand I have seen significant winterburn. Planting good sized trees and keeping them very healthy and fully watered going into winter will help. I have never seen them winter burn after 2 years in the ground on my land. Seem to happen in year 1 or 2. They get tough enough by year three. If they get buried in snow that first year that helps too. Think its a combination of the sun and wind scalding them and a lack of snow cover and brutal temps. -30 in not uncommon in my woods.


^^^Also good to hear with the hemlocks. It gets plenty cold in my woods. I'm not really clumping them so they should have no issues in my lifetime. I'm sure my deer will treat them like candy. Mine are going in cages.

 

[Brian662]

If BHS is a variety of white Spruce, is it safe to say the deer would leave white spruce alone?

 

[BuckSutherland]

If BHS is a variety of white Spruce, is it safe to say the deer would leave white spruce alone?

I have ripped 100s of white spruce out of the road ditch before the power company comes with the mower and transplanted them onto my land. Its rare that they browse them. Left alone for the most part. The needles are firm and if you crush them with your finger tips they kinda stink.

 

[Rubee]

Buck. You just pull them white spruce up by hand? What is the percentage of survival. I’m going to try that this Spring.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Buck. You just pull them white spruce up by hand? What is the percentage of survival. I’m going to try that this Spring.

Pull up with the truck and just tear them out and take whatever comes with. I'm not gentle at all and usually collect 50 trees in about 5 mins. I bring them back and get them into some water pretty quick, but have never used root gel. Up until this year I was getting 80-90% survivability. This year the mega drought really knocked that on its ass. I dont give these trees very much special treatment. Often planted in the shade, no mulch, no weed mat, no cage, no root gel. The few that I have matted and mulched and have gotten them sunlight do pretty damn good. If you get good rain and transplant them quickly there is no reason you cant get 90% to survive. The more you care for them the better they will do. Takes 2-3 years for the roots to heal up from the trauma. The smaller the tree the better the survivability. 15-18" is about the perfect tree. Mortality is higher once you go over 2 feet.

 

[Rubee]

Thanks for the response Buck. Sounds like a way of transplanting that would fit me. I’ve got access to many small white spruce and will definitely try this It after winter.

 

[Brian662]

I'm going to have to start looking for road ditches full of trees apparently, I've never given it much thought. I've already gone around and taken ROD cuttings from the ditches but never considered tree transplants.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I have done similar as Buck and just pull slow and steady to get trees outta the ground. I only do this within 2-3 weeks of frost leaving the ground and maybe 12-16 inch size. Right after frost the ground is the most spongy and giving in my opinion. It is also the time of year I target to remove bigger rocks with my tractor. Later as things dry out cannot push and dig with tractor as easy.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Buck -

Looks like you worked your helper to a nub!!! She's out cold. Man - I wish we had spruce supplies like that here! Just drive a back road and pull 'em. Can't beat that!!! Nice trail of spruce in your woods.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Since my screen is going in an open field with no protection I am a little worried about going all in on Norways just from what i've read recently about winter burn. I also don't think I can do more than one row of spruce in year 1 since i'm looking at about 1300' of screening and buying potted trees. Please critique my current plan:

1. Plant a single file row of alternating potted Norways and BHS spaced 12'. Row will be set about 15' interior of where a second row will go in the future. Hoping that the alternating BHS will buy me a little more winter burn and browsing forgiveness and the norways are cheaper and should grow faster. Buy 3'x3' mats from SWCD for each tree and add mulch (likely free from the city). Cage all norways and possible BHS as well.
2. Plant a single row of hybrid willow cuttings further inside of the spruce to help provide some screening in the earlier years of spruce.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Are these Norway Spruce? Or what kind are they?

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^Is there a "parent" tree around?? If you didn't plant them I would be inclined to think they are white spruce. The parent tree would be able to help you make a determination. White spruce have tiny/short cones. Norways have very large long cones. Needles will also be very stiff on the whites, and if you crush some of the needles its a bit of an unpleasant odor compared to something like a balsam fir.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

They are all growing on an old driveway, that I had the gravel hauled in about 15+ years ago. There is probably a couple hundred of these trees growing on the driveway, ranging from 6 feet to 6 inches. I plan on separating and replanting a bunch of them in other areas. I do have a bunch of balsam fir trees in the area, but to me they didn’t look like balsam. But I am not good at identifying trees.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Definitely not balsam firs. Balsam firs have very soft flat needles if you were to stoke a branch. The white spruce will be stiff and prickly with round needles. Balsam also keeps smooth bark while white spruce develops scaly bark. I would say with 80% certainty they would most likely be white spruce. If they were norways they would have likely been browsed pretty hard and never allowed to get that big. They look identical to the white spruce I pulled out from under the power lines by me. Crush some needles with your fingertips and stroke a few larger branches. If they smell like shit and prick you its most likely a white spruce.

 

[tooln]

When I had my property I clear cut 2.5 acres and planted 1300 Norway spruce. I did nothing special just planted in the trash left from the cut. I planted bare root and used root gel. I had nearly 100% survival and it was a very dry year. I will never plant another tree without root gel.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Definitely not balsam firs. Balsam firs have very soft flat needles if you were to stoke a branch. The white spruce will be stiff and prickly with round needles. Balsam also keeps smooth bark while white spruce develops scaly bark. I would say with 80% certainty they would most likely be white spruce. If they were norways they would have likely been browsed pretty hard and never allowed to get that big. They look identical to the white spruce I pulled out from under the power lines by me. Crush some needles with your fingertips and stroke a few larger branches. If they smell like shit and prick you its most likely a white spruce.

Just got back from taking the muttley for a walk on the land today. Tend to agree with them being whites. I have white and norway spruce planted next to each and the norways are noticeably a lighter shade of green. Sometimes hard to judge true color tones from pics but those look identical to the whites I planted over the years.

Edit. Also white spruce are sometimes nicknamed cat spruce. If your needles when crushed smell like cat piss you will understand the name.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

The deer regularly travel this old driveway, and I haven’t ever seen any browse on them. I will grab and stroke it tomorrow, to be more more certain. Thanks guys!

 

[H20fwler]

If BHS is a variety of white Spruce, is it safe to say the deer would leave white spruce alone?

No
Deer will browse some on BHS. At least they do here, they nip the ends on branches.

Deer are like goats, they will nibble on about everything.