Thank you! It's pretty well accepted that variety is beneficial not only to the wildlife but for soil health as well. That being said, your cafeteria food plot experiment was influential in my smorgasbord approach
Newbie - Recommendations!
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I always use a bunch of varieties of clover.
I will say early sometimes it is nice to only use 2. You can see what does well and why and then adjust the next cycle. The ones I use now are ones that I know do well in certain situations.
I will say early sometimes it is nice to only use 2. You can see what does well and why and then adjust the next cycle. The ones I use now are ones that I know do well in certain situations.
I know it depends on a number of variables, but generally speaking, how many total #/acre do you recommend for clover?
For simplicities sake, if we assume 10#/acre and you want two varieties you just bring the total # to 10? I may be oversimplifying.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Great question.
Those numbers are almost always for tilled and prepared ground. Throwing into a hayfield will require lots more seed to have a decent plot.
That said
It’s usually not half. So if you put 10lbs of one seed, I would put 6-7lbs of two seeds. Something like 60-70% of the single seed amount per seed.
People get down to really low amounts of clover a year, but that’s after planting clover many years in a row and they are getting a lot of free seed from the previous crop. Or it’s on really fertile ground prepared really well.
Those numbers are almost always for tilled and prepared ground. Throwing into a hayfield will require lots more seed to have a decent plot.
That said
It’s usually not half. So if you put 10lbs of one seed, I would put 6-7lbs of two seeds. Something like 60-70% of the single seed amount per seed.
People get down to really low amounts of clover a year, but that’s after planting clover many years in a row and they are getting a lot of free seed from the previous crop. Or it’s on really fertile ground prepared really well.
Thank you! That tracks with my experience last year. It is essentially an unprepped overgrown hayfield. I had good luck last year in a section where I did NOT mow and instead sprayed, waited for the seed bed to sprout again, then spray again & throw and roll. That being said, I don't even want to know what the #/acre would have been if I calculated it. It was a small plot and I know I threw a ton of seed.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I would rather use more seed than have a bad plot!
That said over time it gets easier. After a few years you can cut it and not put more seed and it will look great. But I always add some new seed yearly too.
If you haven’t read it, read the throw and mow thread. Very good info for your situation.
That said over time it gets easier. After a few years you can cut it and not put more seed and it will look great. But I always add some new seed yearly too.
If you haven’t read it, read the throw and mow thread. Very good info for your situation.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Alsike is a good clover to mix in with the others. Alsike does well in wetter, poorer soil. We've used it in poorer areas with good results. We did Alsike, medium red, and Ladino together.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I would add mammoth red to that mix and you have my “all but fool proof” mix…add some purple top and pasja turnips and maybe some Winfred brassica later In the summer with some rye even later on after a good low mowing and you’re good to go till the next spring!
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
How is the thatch layer u der the existing grass? You moght need to initially stir that up to get seed to soil.contact. a little harrowing or light discing might be needed to get those clovers going.
It stands prob 2ft tall as of now. I'd brush hog it down, spray, let it sprout, spray again, seed and roll.
My neighbor has a 12ft disc that I may have him run over it, not sure yet.
After some feedback from you all I'm looking at seed now.
For clover, I'm thinking (total for 3 acres):
15# each of Chicory, medium red, ladino
10# each of Alsike and durana (maybe - also might be overkill, I'm open to feedback)
300# rye
30# brassica (fall)
Any feedback on if I should throw rye in the Spring? I thought it'd provide some forage and offer a little protection/shade to the young clover underneath. The field gets direct sunlight, although it stays pretty moist usually. I could terminate rye and overseed with brassica come fall? Or should I wait until fall and throw rye and brassica?
For clover, I'm thinking (total for 3 acres):
15# each of Chicory, medium red, ladino
10# each of Alsike and durana (maybe - also might be overkill, I'm open to feedback)
300# rye
30# brassica (fall)
Any feedback on if I should throw rye in the Spring? I thought it'd provide some forage and offer a little protection/shade to the young clover underneath. The field gets direct sunlight, although it stays pretty moist usually. I could terminate rye and overseed with brassica come fall? Or should I wait until fall and throw rye and brassica?
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
Depending on where you are located will change when to broadcast brassicas. I'm in Minnesota and have to plant them at least a month earlier than the recommended planting date to get any bulb growth. Have planted brassica at the end of June with good results here. jmo
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Go to a spot of the "Grass" with a pair of scissors. Cut it down to the ground in a spot. Then seed whts between the bottom and bare soil. The grass residue from years past is a good and a bad thing. Can prevent seeds from making soil contact, but if its under it provides moisture and shade for a good start. Some places got a good bit of it, some don't as much. Depends on well the grass grew and what kind of grass. A little discing disturbs the layer, if you need to. Seeing 20-30% soil after you hand cut that grass, your probably good to go. See a bunch of tan and no dirt, probably gonna need a light discing.
You disturbing the old to make the new species, going to be a soil bacteria disturbance.
You disturbing the old to make the new species, going to be a soil bacteria disturbance.
I was playing around with ChatGPT to see what recommendations it would give based on my goals for a perennial plot, given my USDA zone, soil type, moisture, sun exposure and soil test results. Here is the seed recommendation it gave me based on the parameters listed.
I can't say how accurate it is or isn't, but it is fun way to interact to tweak (or validate) your plan or get some new ideas etc. I can't say how accurate it is, but it seemed to be consistent with what has been discussed here and that I've read elsewhere
I can't say how accurate it is or isn't, but it is fun way to interact to tweak (or validate) your plan or get some new ideas etc. I can't say how accurate it is, but it seemed to be consistent with what has been discussed here and that I've read elsewhere
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
I always plant a higher ratio of chicory with clover because in my plots the clover will out compete the chicory and take over but planting a higher ratio of chicory adds a few more years before the plot needs to be tweaked.
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
should add that the chicory to clover is roughly 3 to 1. 75% chicory 25% clover when broadcasted.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I wonder how different alice clover is to dutch white clover? I threw in chircory over the years, but not alot. Didnt get much either.
That double spray method is a great way to go. Stick with what works.
Balsana and Berseem isn't a bad clover ot throw in the mix. Spring plot, add some oats. Get a 50lb bag of feed whole oats and add it to the mix. That oats will be alot of small clovers the deer wont eat while its getting established. Oats would be one of the few things I would monocrop. I'd do it over clover. However, a nice mix is good. Oats wont come back again, the deer will hammer it too hard to go to seed. Rye should come back.
Also, add some 2,4D to the 1st spraying of gly. Get those boradleaves that are tougher to whack with gly alone.
That double spray method is a great way to go. Stick with what works.
Balsana and Berseem isn't a bad clover ot throw in the mix. Spring plot, add some oats. Get a 50lb bag of feed whole oats and add it to the mix. That oats will be alot of small clovers the deer wont eat while its getting established. Oats would be one of the few things I would monocrop. I'd do it over clover. However, a nice mix is good. Oats wont come back again, the deer will hammer it too hard to go to seed. Rye should come back.
Also, add some 2,4D to the 1st spraying of gly. Get those boradleaves that are tougher to whack with gly alone.
Yeah, I've been wondering the same. There are so many variations of clovers I find it difficult to keep track of them. I've been using ChatGPT to summarize and make recommendations on various parameters. I did the same for Alice and Dutch clover as you mentioned and here is what it had to say:
