New Place-Fruit Tree Ideas

[Derek Reese 29]

Do not plant blue spruce! There is a disease that is decimating the blue spruce. You see dead and dying blue spruce everywhere you drive in this region. I've lost a few, and a few others are definitely sick and dying, but I also have a couple that are showing no signs of illness...I'm not sure why that is. Maybe a different genetic strain that is resistant to the blight??
But I would consider it a low-odds gamble to plant blue (or white) spruce. Chances are you will eventually lose them.

thanks for the heads up! I am still in the planning stages for this screen and was going to try and get as many small screen trees from around here( by digging and transplanting) as I can before ordering from nurseries

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Derek -
I've lived in Pa. all my life and I've never seen deer browse white pine HERE. Other states they do, probably because of tougher winters in those states? Lack of other food sources in winter?

The problem with pines is they lose their lower branches as time goes by. The lower parts of pine trees open up. It's just what pines do. Spruce, on the other hand, keep their limbs down to the ground, and thus make a better long-term screen. That's why we've planted so many Norway & white spruce at camp ............ they make a super screen / windbreak / winter shelter ........... and it's once and done for decades. Your location and my camp aren't very far apart, so climate and soil are much the same.

I think the pines would be the first step...I have a friend who has some smallish (4-6 foot white pines) on his land and I could probably start there) Do you think the caging with the remesh would help these smaller trees to survive and thrive and not get rubbed till they are a little bigger?) .I am intrigued by the hawthornes you have mentioned in thepast and would like to incorporate them somehow...maybe between the pine screen and the border of the land or somewhere near the screen so that animals can find it easy to get through but people could not

 

[Tap]

thanks for the heads up! I am still in the planning stages for this screen and was going to try and get as many small screen trees from around here( by digging and transplanting) as I can before ordering from nurseries

Plant a variety to guard against a total loss in the event of a blight of some sort.
I see disease issues with blue and white spruce, hemlock, red pine, and doug fir. You could loose it all if you plant a mono culture.
Norway spruce and white pine seem to be healthy...for now. But who knows what could happen 10 years from now.
I always thought that forsythia would make a nice screen. Deer don't eat or rub it, it can form a dense screen, and it looks nice when it blooms.
IMO, you definitely want a non food variety. Anything that deer eat will draw them to the screen. I don't want them being targets for poachers when the deer are hanging out browsing the screen along the roads or property lines.

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[Derek Reese 29]

Plant a variety to guard against a total loss in the event of a blight of some sort.
I see disease issues with blue and white spruce, hemlock, red pine, and doug fir. You could loose it all if you plant a mono culture.
Norway spruce and white pine seem to be healthy...for now. But who knows what could happen 10 years from now.
I always thought that forsythia would make a nice screen. Deer don't eat or rub it, it can form a dense screen, and it looks nice when it blooms.
IMO, you definitely want a non food variety. Anything that deer eat will draw them to the screen. I don't want them being targets for poachers when the deer are hanging out browsing the screen along the roads or property lines.

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Thanks for the advice on the forsythia...thats a great idea and it is everywhere up here...I just wonder if I can just plant some cuttings....If I had to choose, I might go row of forsythia, row of hawthorne, row of mixed pines/spruce and maybe some blackberries in there with about a 20-30 yard swath of existing hay/early successional field in between all of that and the property border...

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm in SW Pa, and deer are extremely hard on young white pine. I’ve grown a few to maturity but I've lost a lot to deer damage, too. They have never browsed mine...UNTIL there is snow on the ground. Same with my hemlocks, rhododendron, and laurel. Just an inch or so of snow and they start to browse stuff that they would otherwise ignore.
The biggest threat to white pines is from buck rubbing. They love, love, love to rub white pines. One Ohio property that I hunt has white pine aging from new sprouts to fully mature. The amount of rubbing on trees up to 5 or 6" dia is mind blowing.
I could not grow a white pine unless I would cage it.

Tap -
It must be different in SW Pa. for deer browsing white pines and rubbing on them. You guys in SW Pa. have a whole different game going on there - similar to SE Pa. More agricultural land, smaller woodlots, better food variety.
I've never seen browsing or rubbing on W.P. in NC Pa. - and I've been in big woods and woodlots all around the NC region. They don't browse hemlocks up there either - but they do love to rub on hemlocks!! Older bucks seem to LOVE rubbing on hemlocks ............ maybe to darken their antlers??
I've never planted one blue spruce for the reason you gave. There's a blight of some kind that kills blue spruce. I plant about 95% Norway spruce and about 5% white spruce. Norways grow the fastest and don't seem bothered by any major disease or insect problems. We have white pine coming out of our ears, so we plant none. I have planted some balsam fir recently in the last few years.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I think the pines would be the first step...I have a friend who has some smallish (4-6 foot white pines) on his land and I could probably start there) Do you think the caging with the remesh would help these smaller trees to survive and thrive and not get rubbed till they are a little bigger?) .I am intrigued by the hawthornes you have mentioned in thepast and would like to incorporate them somehow...maybe between the pine screen and the border of the land or somewhere near the screen so that animals can find it easy to get through but people could not

Derek -
My camp isn't far from you and I've hunted all over Lycoming Co. for over 50 years. I've never seen deer eating white pines there. I've only ever seen a handful of rubs on them either. Red or sugar maples, witch hazel, striped maple, hemlock, sumac, pitch pine, and laurel seem to be the big rubbing targets there. We have thousands of white pines at camp and I've never seen a rub - or browsing - on any of them. A suggestion ............ if you plant white pines and want them as a screen, keep them topped when they're about 4 or 5 ft. tall so they thicken up and don't turn into skyrockets for you. Without topping them, they'll just grow upward and the lower limbs won't provide much of a screen. They'll still grow taller, but with many more limbs to give you a screen.

Washington hawthorn needs a lot of sun to get good crops of those red berries that draw grouse, turkeys, and lots of birds. If you're planting rows of things, keep the hawthorns in sun by maybe planting them on the outside of your other stuff. Deer and other critters will get through hawthorns OK, but as they mature and get taller, people won't want to venture into them. The thorns get to about 2 1/2" long and look like big needles !! Our deer go through them with no problem. They'll also drop those red berries, which will give you lots of free seedlings to transplant later - or leave then to thicken your row. I used to hunt a property outside of Cogan Station in the farm country. There was a small ravine there that was choked with hawthorn ............. and we always kicked deer and grouse out of that ravine. Those thorns probably kept human intruders out of that ravine - safe, secure place to bed and hang out for the critters. I've had nothing but good results & experiences with Washington hawthorns. FWIW.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Derek -
My camp isn't far from you and I've hunted all over Lycoming Co. for over 50 years. I've never seen deer eating white pines there. I've only ever seen a handful of rubs on them either. Red or sugar maples, witch hazel, striped maple, hemlock, sumac, pitch pine, and laurel seem to be the big rubbing targets there. We have thousands of white pines at camp and I've never seen a rub - or browsing - on any of them. A suggestion ............ if you plant white pines and want them as a screen, keep them topped when they're about 4 or 5 ft. tall so they thicken up and don't turn into skyrockets for you. Without topping them, they'll just grow upward and the lower limbs won't provide much of a screen. They'll still grow taller, but with many more limbs to give you a screen.

Washington hawthorn needs a lot of sun to get good crops of those red berries that draw grouse, turkeys, and lots of birds. If you're planting rows of things, keep the hawthorns in sun by maybe planting them on the outside of your other stuff. Deer and other critters will get through hawthorns OK, but as they mature and get taller, people won't want to venture into them. The thorns get to about 2 1/2" long and look like big needles !! Our deer go through them with no problem. They'll also drop those red berries, which will give you lots of free seedlings to transplant later - or leave then to thicken your row. I used to hunt a property outside of Cogan Station in the farm country. There was a small ravine there that was choked with hawthorn ............. and we always kicked deer and grouse out of that ravine. Those thorns probably kept human intruders out of that ravine - safe, secure place to bed and hang out for the critters. I've had nothing but good results & experiences with Washington hawthorns. FWIW.

I like the topping idea! I really want multiple "levels" to this screen, not just a couple trees to block the view...I want this to be a barrier (to people at least)
I dont think ive ever seen a rub around here on white pines either! All the trees you mentioned get pounded though.
This field where the screen is to be located is in almost full sun the whole day, as it faces south and once the sun gets high enough it should get almost a full days worth.
Any idea where to get some decent sized hawthorns? Nurseries or anything? I may try to get the screen started this fall so it is at least beginning when the house starts going up.

 

[Tap]

I like the topping idea! I really want multiple "levels" to this screen, not just a couple trees to block the view...I want this to be a barrier (to people at least)
I dont think ive ever seen a rub around here on white pines either! All the trees you mentioned get pounded though.
This field where the screen is to be located is in almost full sun the whole day, as it faces south and once the sun gets high enough it should get almost a full days worth.
Any idea where to get some decent sized hawthorns? Nurseries or anything? I may try to get the screen started this fall so it is at least beginning when the house starts going up.

I have lots of hawthorn, too many. They are competing with my crabs so I'm often cutting them. I've never tried to transplant any but I could try sending some to you. I've never shipped trees so I have no idea how that would work out.
Hawthorn are nasty, nasty. The thorns can puncture tractor tires. I once had a thorn go thru the sole of lightweight boots and bury itself in my foot. The thorn broke off flush with the sole so I could not pull it out. It was like my boot was nailed to my foot. I couldn't even sit down to unlace the boot because I was standing in a patch of poison ivy! I couldn't walk on that foot for fear of the thorn breaking off in my foot, so I hopped 20 yards to get out into a food plot where I could sit down. I removed the lace and then I could (barely) slip my foot out. Yikes that hurt.
One fear that I have is to be hit in the eye with a hawthorn branch.
I can send you some seeds or we can try some small bare root trees. I have no idea about the survivability rate. No idea if they have a tap root like oaks.

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[Tap]

Derek -
My camp isn't far from you and I've hunted all over Lycoming Co. for over 50 years. I've never seen deer eating white pines there. I've only ever seen a handful of rubs on them either. Red or sugar maples, witch hazel, striped maple, hemlock, sumac, pitch pine, and laurel seem to be the big rubbing targets there. We have thousands of white pines at camp and I've never seen a rub - or browsing - on any of them. A suggestion ............ if you plant white pines and want them as a screen, keep them topped when they're about 4 or 5 ft. tall so they thicken up and don't turn into skyrockets for you. Without topping them, they'll just grow upward and the lower limbs won't provide much of a screen. They'll still grow taller, but with many more limbs to give you a screen.

Washington hawthorn needs a lot of sun to get good crops of those red berries that draw grouse, turkeys, and lots of birds. If you're planting rows of things, keep the hawthorns in sun by maybe planting them on the outside of your other stuff. Deer and other critters will get through hawthorns OK, but as they mature and get taller, people won't want to venture into them. The thorns get to about 2 1/2" long and look like big needles !! Our deer go through them with no problem. They'll also drop those red berries, which will give you lots of free seedlings to transplant later - or leave then to thicken your row. I used to hunt a property outside of Cogan Station in the farm country. There was a small ravine there that was choked with hawthorn ............. and we always kicked deer and grouse out of that ravine. Those thorns probably kept human intruders out of that ravine - safe, secure place to bed and hang out for the critters. I've had nothing but good results & experiences with Washington hawthorns. FWIW.

I wish you guys could see the dozens upon dozens of rubs in the patch of white pine where I hunt in Ohio. The only other place that I've seen a greater density of rubs is in Iowa on cedar trees.

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[rogersb]

We have some sort of scrub oak growing in the game lands I hunt. I'm considering putting out some acorns to make a screen along my property line. They grow thick and are only about 10 feet tall. Ever think of something like that? The deer in the area do not seem to like to browse it.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

We have some sort of scrub oak growing in the game lands I hunt. I'm considering putting out some acorns to make a screen along my property line. They grow thick and are only about 10 feet tall. Ever think of something like that? The deer in the area do not seem to like to browse it.

any idea on the variety of oak? that might be good to plant on the side of the screen towards my property both for food and for cover down low...

 

[rogersb]

any idea on the variety of oak? that might be good to plant on the side of the screen towards my property both for food and for cover down low...

I'll take some pics next time I'm out and post them for ya. I'm not good with oak species, but someone here might know.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I'll take some pics next time I'm out and post them for ya. I'm not good with oak species, but someone here might know.

appreciate that! thanks!

 

[bwoods11]

Oak that will keep it's leaves, red oak, pin oak? I am not familiar with what does well in PA? Another option might be Swamp White Oak and that would give you acorns in 10 years (if you protect/ water and baby the trees)

 

[sandbur]

I wish you guys could see the dozens upon dozens of rubs in the patch of white pine where I hunt in Ohio. The only other place that I've seen a greater density of rubs is in Iowa on cedar trees.

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If I plant a white pine or balsam where I live, it will get rubbed. They are not common here and I feel the deer like the unique smell.

Up north, many grow and not rubbed since there are lots of them.

What type of Hawthorne has those long thorns? There are many varieties.


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[Bowsnbucks]

What type of Hawthorne has those long thorns? There are many varieties.

The ones I have at camp are Washington hawthorns. The thorns get to around 2 1/2" long when mature - they look like big sewing needles. From seedlings 14" - 16" tall, I've had them get to about 6 ft. tall in 3 years by tossing some 10-10-10 around them and caging them in the early years. Deer WILL browse the young tender twigs that have no thorns yet. Once they get up in height, deer don't bother them for browsing. When they do browse, it's only been the twigs with no thorns - doesn't kill the tree.

 

[Tap]

The ones I have at camp are Washington hawthorns. The thorns get to around 2 1/2" long when mature - they look like big sewing needles. From seedlings 14" - 16" tall, I've had them get to about 6 ft. tall in 3 years by tossing some 10-10-10 around them and caging them in the early years. Deer WILL browse the young tender twigs that have no thorns yet. Once they get up in height, deer don't bother them for browsing. When they do browse, it's only been the twigs with no thorns - doesn't kill the tree.

Believe it or not, I have a few scrapes under hawthorn on my place.
I can't imagine how bucks can rake their face thru the thorny licking branches without losing an eye.

Hawthorn hinge very well, too. I get almost 100% survival and they will make an impenetrable wall of nastiness.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Hawthorn hinge very well, too. I get almost 100% survival and they will make an impenetrable wall of nastiness.

You're right Tap!! We have a hawthorn that was accidently partially uprooted by a passing tractor mower deck. It still lays over on it's side, but new vertical limbs / leaders are growing skyward from the original trunk ............ and it's now a green "wall."

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Thanks again everyone for all the posts! I will probably get this started in the spring, as most of my habitat funds for fall went to seeds. I can get 10 2-3 ft norway spruce and 10 3-4 ft hybrid poplars for under 100$ total. I will be transplanting some white pines and finding some hawthorns to begin this screen. I even thought about trying to transplant some raspberry canes or something like that to make right on the border very unpleasant. Again, not trying to be a jerk, but just want some extra security, especially as I will be turning the far side of this screened field into a food plot this fall (with rye and clover). Also had an idea to put 7-8 fruit trees around the top fence row, but still in the field (screened/fenced of course). I'm leaning towards some crabs from NWC at the moment (just gotta remember to order them in September).

 

[Tap]

Thanks again everyone for all the posts! I will probably get this started in the spring, as most of my habitat funds for fall went to seeds. I can get 10 2-3 ft norway spruce and 10 3-4 ft hybrid poplars for under 100$ total. I will be transplanting some white pines and finding some hawthorns to begin this screen. I even thought about trying to transplant some raspberry canes or something like that to make right on the border very unpleasant. Again, not trying to be a jerk, but just want some extra security, especially as I will be turning the far side of this screened field into a food plot this fall (with rye and clover). Also had an idea to put 7-8 fruit trees around the top fence row, but still in the field (screened/fenced of course). I'm leaning towards some crabs from NWC at the moment (just gotta remember to order them in September).

Get those hawthorn established and then hinge cut them...almost as good as razor wire.