Native habitat vs Food plots vs pellets

Baker

5 year old buck +
Here is an anecdotal observation of the differences between native habitat , summer food plots and protein pellet supplementation . This may be unique to my poor soils.

To frame it up I compare my Louisiana farm to my adjoining neighbors farm . Both are about the same size a bit over 1300 acres. Both have been intensively managed for decades. My property is about 70/30 hardwoods to pine while his is 90% hardwood. I'm mostly poor sandy loam while he is mostly red clay. We both do year round food plots and supplemental feed from February till end of August. I have done annual timber thinning for 30+ years. He has done essentially no timber thinning thus his forest land tends to be overstoried with very little understory. Because I thin timber annually when hurricane Laura hit 3 years ago I had profound extensive damage because the wind could whip thru the trees so much easier. I'm convinced a significant % of my deer population got killed in the storm. His damage was much less. He has a higher population of deer than me.As a result I have a giant thick jungle I am still trying to clean up . Both of us are high fenced thus good control over age structure.

Here is what I observed this summer. On my place I saw 1 bachelor group all summer. Hardly saw any bucks at all and no big ones. Very unusual. Rarely saw deer in the food plots even though had great summer production. Does and fawns everywhere but the bucks stayed out of sight. Pellet consumption was almost nonexistent till July. Then it picked up but was only strong for about a month . Cameras on me showed 2 bucks both known that were big...one upper 70's the other maybe 190. A good spattering of 'regular' bucks. My ratio is about 1/1 so I know I have a buck population equal to the number of does I was seeing.

On my neighbors property on any given afternoon we could slip around to his beautiful clover plots and every one held a bachelor group. His deer lived in the clover fields. His pellet consumption high all summer. His herd looked outstanding. At least 12 bucks over 170 with a good showing of 180's and a couple 190. Big fun!

My logic suggests this. I think my bucks mostly fed on native habitat all summer with modest time in the clover, peas etc. Modest pellet consumption. Neighbors deer simply don't have the native browse so they relied heavily on quality plots and pellets. This strongly suggests to me that native habitat...here at least...simply isn't as nutrient dense as planted legumes and protein pellets. On my property it seems unlikely for deer to reach their full potential on native browse yet when nutritional plane is elevated magic happens.

Of course I could be wrong on all this.
 
I don't see the connection. He has more bucks because you lost a high percentage while he didn't. He sees more of his deer because he can view the food easily. Can you elaborate on line of thinking? It seems your deer are spending more time in a different food source that isn't viewable. Does he have livestock mixed in with his deer too? Have you sampled the newest growth of the native vegetation your deer are eating and compared it to your plots and pellets? I think there's lots of variables to consider.
 
When your property was damaged from the big storm you must have had some missing or damaged sections of the high fence? If so how many of the deer that you had fenced in possibly left your property?
 
I agree with @Baker. I have done everything in my power to create more native browse. I have it in spades. And I have more bucks than I’ve ever had.

That said, they rarely come into fields or to feeders. They don’t need to. I kill every big buck in the woods near their bedding.
 
I agree with @Baker. I have done everything in my power to create more native browse. I have it in spades. And I have more bucks than I’ve ever had.

That said, they rarely come into fields or to feeders. They don’t need to. I kill every big buck in the woods near their bedding.
You have dispersal. He doesn't. He controls the generational diet. The deer on your property aren't enclosed on it. Your 2.5 yo bucks were the product of the food somewhere else.
 
I find it unlikely that generations of epigenetics (low stress and high nutritional planes) would be wiped out in a summer of lower nutrition. I'd look for something else to answer those questions other than deer choosing native browse over feed for a summer.
 
I don’t think wiping out is what he is saying. I think it’s coming to clover fields and feeders for pictures. I’m less inclined to believe it makes them smaller, just makes them less likely to come out of the woods
 
I don’t think wiping out is what he is saying. I think it’s coming to clover fields and feeders for pictures. I’m less inclined to believe it makes them smaller, just makes them less likely to come out of the woods

I didn't mean wiping out the bucks, I was referring to the epigenetic factors such as large antlers that he has spent generations building up. I don't think all that progress in genes being switched on would be reversed in a summer of less than perfect nutrition.
 
I agree with what you are saying.
 
You have dispersal. He doesn't. He controls the generational diet. The deer on your property aren't enclosed on it. Your 2.5 yo bucks were the product of the food somewhere else.
Partially true. My 650 acres north and 400 acres east don’t feed.
 
Partially true. My 650 acres north and 400 acres east don’t feed.
Exactly. You can't control what the deer visiting your property have eaten for generations.
 
Exactly. You can't control what the deer visiting your property have eaten for generations.
What they have eaten for generations really wouldn’t affect their genetics in any way IMO. Maybe a little, but it would mainly maximize what genetics they have already.

This sounds like the biologist talking points. They hate feeding. I think baker has proven it is NOT genetics. If you properly feed the deer that are already there you will get massive bucks.
 
Google "epigenetics". Genes can actually be turned on and off and subsequently be passed on to later generations. It's a common thing in domestic breeding programs and also a consideration in wildlife populations.
 
What they have eaten for generations really wouldn’t affect their genetics in any way IMO. Maybe a little, but it would mainly maximize what genetics they have already.

This sounds like the biologist talking points. They hate feeding. I think baker has proven it is NOT genetics. If you properly feed the deer that are already there you will get massive bucks.
It takes a couple of generations of being on a fully nutritional diet for deer to express their genetic potential. A buck whose mother lived on a nutritionally deficient diet, will not express his genetic potential in his lifetime. So, if you aren't fenced in, bucks on your property will never express their genetic potential no matter how good the food is on your property unless the whole surrounding area for miles around is supplying all the nutrition they need.
 
I was hoping this thread would generate good discussion. I'll try to respond to all the thoughts here.

I do believe he has better age structure than I do and that is very critical. He has more of the 5-10 yr olds. I have yet to see that many older bucks in that age class yet lots in the younger age classes that may have been born after the storm. I'll know more about age structure with time and that could be a big part of the difference.. While I haven't sampled native vegetation there is no question in my mind that my bucks spent the majority of the time this summer foraging on native stuff. There is no doubt in my mind that healthy Summer legumes coupled with high quality protein pellets provides higher quality nutrition that native plants in La. { Not so true in Mexico } I do not believe you can get full genetic expression from native habitat only in Central La.!

I may have lost a few deer from fence damage after the storm but I don't think material . Its a misnomer to think game fences are water tight. They are not .However after a time deer figure out the fence and you hardly ever see them near it.

I don't think my genetic potential has been affected in the least. However you can have the best genetics in the world and if nutrition is compromised you do not get full expression. Nutrition lifts the quality of all age classes. What I think is many of my bucks were on a lower nutritional plane because they lived on native habitat thus were compromised nutritionally vs. my neighbors deer which spent more time on clover.

I am convinced without a doubt that you can shift the epigenetic potential of antler expression over time IF you keep nutrition 100% 365 days a year . I think you start seeing the results after the first full cohort of fawns born after the first generation of does have been on peak nutrition their whole life. Maybe some places can get there naturally but for most it takes year round cultivars and protein pellets at strategic times to shift the bell curve of quality
 
X
 
It takes a couple of generations of being on a fully nutritional diet for deer to express their genetic potential. A buck whose mother lived on a nutritionally deficient diet, will not express his genetic potential in his lifetime. So, if you aren't fenced in, bucks on your property will never express their genetic potential no matter how good the food is on your property unless the whole surrounding area for miles around is supplying all the nutrition they need.
I’m sorry, I just don’t fully agree. That’s OK for us to have different opinions.
 
I’m sorry, I just don’t fully agree. That’s OK for us to have different opinions.
I agree we can have different opinions. I was just relaying what the studies over years of research have shown.
 
I agree we can have different opinions. I was just relaying what the studies over years of research have shown.
Hard to do a proper study on that topic.

Also, in general, the biologist are against feeding. So selection bias tends for them to study things that reinforce their preconceived thoughts.
 
Hard to do a proper study on that topic.
MSU did the study over years showing very conclusive evidence that it takes a couple generations for deer to show their genetic potential given a diet that meets 100% of their needs. You should check it out. It might help clear up any confusion that I may be contributing to.
 
Back
Top