Math is hard...41% GLY

[weekender21]

I recently purchased 41% GLY (compare and save brand) at Tractor Supply. I was planning on 2 quarts per acre as that is the most consistent recommended application I hear. But, according to the label that’s WAY too week. What am I missing?

Label:
2.5oz per gallon will kill 300sq foot area

Unless my math is off that translates to a 32oz (1 QT) container treating only 3840 square feet or .0882 acres.

Even the one gallon (4 quart) size would only treat .3528 acres.

Am I missing something?

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[weekender21]

Any issues mixing AMS in a gallon solo backpack sprayer?


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[Tree Spud]

I have fo r years used 2.5 oz Gly/gal in my in my 25 gallon boom sprayer and will cover 0.5-0.75 acres and get a very complete kill. That 62.5 oz gly per 25 gal.

AMS will help with adhesion to the plant, I use 1 oz AMS/1 gal water.

 

[weekender21]

I have fo r years used 2.5 oz Gly/gal in my in my 25 gallon boom sprayer and will cover 0.5-0.75 acres and get a very complete kill. That 62.5 oz gly per 25 gal.

AMS will help with adhesion to the plant, I use 1 oz AMS/1 gal water.

Thanks! Have you tried liquid AMS? It’s odd that I can’t find AMS at the local Tractor Supply.


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[Tree Spud]

Thanks! Have you tried liquid AMS? It’s odd that I can’t find AMS at the local Tractor Supply.


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I ordered this from Amazon ...
Southern Ag Surfacant

 

[weekender21]

Thanks! Have you tried liquid AMS? It’s odd that I can’t find AMS at the local Tractor Supply.


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I ordered this from Amazon ...
Southern Ag Surfacant

That’s not AMS though is it?


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[yoderjac]

I recently purchased 41% GLY (compare and save brand) at Tractor Supply. I was planning on 2 quarts per acre as that is the most consistent recommended application I hear. But, according to the label that’s WAY too week. What am I missing?

Label:
2.5oz per gallon will kill 300sq foot area

Unless my math is off that translates to a 32oz (1 QT) container treating only 3840 square feet or .0882 acres.

Even the one gallon (4 quart) size would only treat .3528 acres.

Am I missing something?

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Yes, that is probably labeled as a lawn and garden type product. You are reading "spot spraying" instructions. For ag type applications, you only need enough water to evenly apply the product, beyond that, the amount of product per gal of water doesn't matter. It is the amount of product per acre that counts. That means you need to calibrate your sprayer so you know how much fluid it is putting out per acre. Boom type sprayers on a tractor give you the most accurate application.

The amount per acre depends on your weeds. The nominal amount for a total burn-down of most weeds is 2 qt/ac, but some plants are more resistant (like clover) and may need 3 quarts per acre. Some plants are naturally very resistant to gly like marestail and some weeds have developed a resistance over time since gly has been in widespread use.

Go find a 2 1/2 gal jug of it at TSC and check that label. As long as gly is the only active ingredient, and it is 41% you can use those ag instructions.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Any issues mixing AMS in a gallon solo backpack sprayer?


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AMS is different from a surfactant. Many folks have hard or dirty water with minerals in it. When you add gly to the water the minerals bond with the gly chemically making it less effective. With AMS, you put water in your tank first, and then add AMS to the water. The AMS binds with those minerals tying them up so they can't then bond with the gly. That is how AMS makes gly more effective. A surfactant works differently. It lowers the surface tension between a liquid and another liquid or solid; in this case a weed. Dawn dish soap can be an effective surfactant, but most 41% gly has a surfactant in it already and is gold or brownish in color.

The only issue with AMS is making sure it is fully dissolved in water so it does not clog a spray tip or filter. You can buy water soluble AMS. You can also dissolve it in a little bit of water before adding it to the tank.

By the way, I'm guessing the oz/gal instructions on homeowner instructions is to simplify them for garden or backpack sprayers. The overkill (about 11 qt/ac based on your label) probably accounts for several things. One is that backyard users won't get and even application like one gets with a boom sprayer on a tractor. Next, they would rather have homeowners over-spray rather than under-spray. Under-spraying is what encourages gly resistance. Finally, they sell much more product this way. So, if you are using a backpack sprayer, you might want to go heavier than the 2 qt/ac because the application will be uneven.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[weekender21]

Yes, that is probably labeled as a lawn and garden type product. You are reading "spot spraying" instructions. For ag type applications, you only need enough water to evenly apply the product, beyond that, the amount of product per gal of water doesn't matter. It is the amount of product per acre that counts. That means you need to calibrate your sprayer so you know how much fluid it is putting out per acre. Boom type sprayers on a tractor give you the most accurate application.

The amount per acre depends on your weeds. The nominal amount for a total burn-down of most weeds is 2 qt/ac, but some plants are more resistant (like clover) and may need 3 quarts per acre. Some plants are naturally very resistant to gly like marestail and some weeds have developed a resistance over time since gly has been in widespread use.

Go find a 2 1/2 gal jug of it at TSC and check that label. As long as gly is the only active ingredient, and it is 41% you can use those ag instructions.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack-I bought this product at Tractor Supply. It has spot spray and area coverage rates, that's why I'm surprised by how small the coverage area is. Sure, they're obviously targeting city folk but it is 41% GLY so....

 

[weekender21]

AMS is different from a surfactant. Many folks have hard or dirty water with minerals in it. When you add gly to the water the minerals bond with the gly chemically making it less effective. With AMS, you put water in your tank first, and then add AMS to the water. The AMS binds with those minerals tying them up so they can't then bond with the gly. That is how AMS makes gly more effective. A surfactant works differently. It lowers the surface tension between a liquid and another liquid or solid; in this case a weed. Dawn dish soap can be an effective surfactant, but most 41% gly has a surfactant in it already and is gold or brownish in color.

The only issue with AMS is making sure it is fully dissolved in water so it does not clog a spray tip or filter. You can buy water soluble AMS. You can also dissolve it in a little bit of water before adding it to the tank.

By the way, I'm guessing the oz/gal instructions on homeowner instructions is to simplify them for garden or backpack sprayers. The overkill (about 11 qt/ac based on your label) probably accounts for several things. One is that backyard users won't get and even application like one gets with a boom sprayer on a tractor. Next, they would rather have homeowners over-spray rather than under-spray. Under-spraying is what encourages gly resistance. Finally, they sell much more product this way. So, if you are using a backpack sprayer, you might want to go heavier than the 2 qt/ac because the application will be uneven.

Thanks,

Jack

Glad you mentioned the backpack sprayer. I'm using a SOLO 4 gallon backpack with their 4 boom wand. I'll go a little heavy.

I found liquid AMS on Keystones web site, it's called TURBO. 2.5 gallons is likely WAY more than I can use on 2.5 acres but I may buy it anyway. I really only want to spray once and do it right the first time.

 

[FarmerDan]

Jack-I bought this product at Tractor Supply. It has spot spray and area coverage rates, that's why I'm surprised by how small the coverage area is. Sure, they're obviously targeting city folk but it is 41% GLY so....

The typical person buying gly for lawn and garden use has no idea. What they do know is that they want to spray today and see the color brown tomorrow. Lawn & garden is tough because a lot of what is on the execution menu are perennials with extensive root systems. And the homeowners don't think about weed control until the plant is at it's largest most difficult to kill size. One way for a manufacturer and/or reseller to combat the homeowner perception is to tell them to pour the fire to it (assuming its an approved, registered rate).

Otherwise the claims about how ineffective glyphosate is become a burden. Trust me. I know.

 

[weekender21]

Jack-I bought this product at Tractor Supply. It has spot spray and area coverage rates, that's why I'm surprised by how small the coverage area is. Sure, they're obviously targeting city folk but it is 41% GLY so....

The typical person buying gly for lawn and garden use has no idea. What they do know is that they want to spray today and see the color brown tomorrow. Lawn & garden is tough because a lot of what is on the execution menu are perennials with extensive root systems. And the homeowners don't think about weed control until the plant is at it's largest most difficult to kill size. One way for a manufacturer and/or reseller to combat the homeowner perception is to tell them to pour the fire to it (assuming its an approved, registered rate).

Otherwise the claims about how ineffective glyphosate is become a burden. Trust me. I know.

So funny you mention the claims about a product not working. This product has several one star reviews on tractor supplies website. Either a hard water or impatience problem I guess?!


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[Rit]

AMS is different from a surfactant. Many folks have hard or dirty water with minerals in it. When you add gly to the water the minerals bond with the gly chemically making it less effective. With AMS, you put water in your tank first, and then add AMS to the water. The AMS binds with those minerals tying them up so they can't then bond with the gly. That is how AMS makes gly more effective. A surfactant works differently. It lowers the surface tension between a liquid and another liquid or solid; in this case a weed. Dawn dish soap can be an effective surfactant, but most 41% gly has a surfactant in it already and is gold or brownish in color.

The only issue with AMS is making sure it is fully dissolved in water so it does not clog a spray tip or filter. You can buy water soluble AMS. You can also dissolve it in a little bit of water before adding it to the tank.

By the way, I'm guessing the oz/gal instructions on homeowner instructions is to simplify them for garden or backpack sprayers. The overkill (about 11 qt/ac based on your label) probably accounts for several things. One is that backyard users won't get and even application like one gets with a boom sprayer on a tractor. Next, they would rather have homeowners over-spray rather than under-spray. Under-spraying is what encourages gly resistance. Finally, they sell much more product this way. So, if you are using a backpack sprayer, you might want to go heavier than the 2 qt/ac because the application will be uneven.

Thanks,

Jack

You do not want the water soluble version of AMS. You want sprayer grade AMS. There is a huge difference.

 

[weekender21]

AMS is different from a surfactant. Many folks have hard or dirty water with minerals in it. When you add gly to the water the minerals bond with the gly chemically making it less effective. With AMS, you put water in your tank first, and then add AMS to the water. The AMS binds with those minerals tying them up so they can't then bond with the gly. That is how AMS makes gly more effective. A surfactant works differently. It lowers the surface tension between a liquid and another liquid or solid; in this case a weed. Dawn dish soap can be an effective surfactant, but most 41% gly has a surfactant in it already and is gold or brownish in color.

The only issue with AMS is making sure it is fully dissolved in water so it does not clog a spray tip or filter. You can buy water soluble AMS. You can also dissolve it in a little bit of water before adding it to the tank.

By the way, I'm guessing the oz/gal instructions on homeowner instructions is to simplify them for garden or backpack sprayers. The overkill (about 11 qt/ac based on your label) probably accounts for several things. One is that backyard users won't get and even application like one gets with a boom sprayer on a tractor. Next, they would rather have homeowners over-spray rather than under-spray. Under-spraying is what encourages gly resistance. Finally, they sell much more product this way. So, if you are using a backpack sprayer, you might want to go heavier than the 2 qt/ac because the application will be uneven.

Thanks,

Jack

You do not want the water soluble version of AMS. You want sprayer grade AMS. There is a huge difference.

Think I’ll go with the liquid version that Keystone recommends. It’s called Turbo.


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[Rit]

Think I’ll go with the liquid version that Keystone recommends. It’s called Turbo.


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Hope it works for you. I recently read something about when not to use the liquid version of AMS while I was trying to figure out an Interline/Gly mixture. I don’t recall why and that may have been geared more towards the mixture. I have to use AMS every time I spray because I use untreated well water that is rather hard. The sprayer grade AMS comes in a 51 lb bag is rather cheap and the formula is simple. 17 lbs per 100 gallons of water. I usually spray between 25-30 gallons of water so I go with 4 1/4 lbs. The same bag has lasted forever.
The very first time I sprayed I used water soluble AMS and clogged every nozzle. Not a single clog since I moved to the sprayer grade.

 

[yoderjac]

You do not want the water soluble version of AMS. You want sprayer grade AMS. There is a huge difference.

Both work. You just need to make sure the water soluble is fully in suspension so it doesn't clog anything. I've used both in my sprayers with no problem at all. If you are worried about water soluble, simply mix it in hot water the night before. It will be diluted sufficiently by morning. I do agree that if you can get both at the same price, I would prefer sprayer grade.

 

[weekender21]

Think I’ll go with the liquid version that Keystone recommends. It’s called Turbo.


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Hope it works for you. I recently read something about when not to use the liquid version of AMS while I was trying to figure out an Interline/Gly mixture. I don’t recall why and that may have been geared more towards the mixture. I have to use AMS every time I spray because I use untreated well water that is rather hard. The sprayer grade AMS comes in a 51 lb bag is rather cheap and the formula is simple. 17 lbs per 100 gallons of water. I usually spray between 25-30 gallons of water so I go with 4 1/4 lbs. The same bag has lasted forever.
The very first time I sprayed I used water soluble AMS and clogged every nozzle. Not a single clog since I moved to the sprayer grade.
View attachment 31243

Is this the water soluble AMS that can cause issues?


https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...MIy6nh8Oax6wIVmI7ICh3gpQ8jEAQYASABEgLu3fD_BwE


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[chucker66]

I use that exact product and I got it at Menards. I use 2 oz per gallon in a 4 gallon back pack sprayer and it kills everything DEAD. Including young RCG.

Chuck

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

We have really hard water. I have never added anything to the water other than gly. 2 quarts per acre and it looks like a nuclear wasteland in 10 days.


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[Rit]

Is this the water soluble AMS that can cause issues?


https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...MIy6nh8Oax6wIVmI7ICh3gpQ8jEAQYASABEgLu3fD_BwE


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I have never used the liquid only the granule. It says water soluble on the bag versus sprayer grade.