Management of Northern White Cedar

[Maddog66]

4wandering…….that’s almost exactly what the guy who cuts boughs on my property recommends……except he didn’t think about building runways with the scraps. Diabolical. I like that!

He contends that basically by ‘releasing’ the larger more vigorous trunks in each clump, I could have both more healthy big trees and more food from new, lower, stump sprouting (assuming enough light). Just like I see on the edges.

One more thing I think about is how my habitat moves affect wolf success. The more deer I pull to my property, the more wolves that show up.

Thank you for your thoughts Williams! Valuable insight!

Edit: I haven’t heard back from my local forester yet. I expect it might not happen until after gun deer season. But when I had him out 2 years ago for my DMAP property tour / survey and broached the subject, he kind of blew it off as if I was asking a preposterous question. He also kind of derided the advice of my bough cutter…..who has been managing and harvesting boughs off my, and others, NWC’s and Cat Spruces for 20+ years ( way before me).

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have plenty of wolves, and these damn destructive dicks, and no I don’t bait. Just food plots.

 

[Dogshooter]

Forester here.

Cedar does not stump sprout. At least not to any measurable amount.

If you want any chance at regenerating, you will have to clear cut either in strips or patches. The common practice is to cut strips north south, 60-120 feet wide and then leave a strip double that wide, cut another strip, etc. this allows the prevailing westerly winds to blow seed into the cut strips to regenerate.

Problem with cedar is if you have any deer at all, they will eat any regeneration. It’s about impossible to get regen without some sort of ex closure fencing.

The other problem is there is a very limited market for cedar so finding a logger to come cut it is very hard. Also with as wet as the ground is under cedar and as insulated as it is it almost never freezes so getting equipment in is a whole separate challenge.

If you really want to try and regenerate some, you will almost certainly have to fence the deer out for 10-20 years until the regen gets above the reach of the deer.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but that’s been my experience. I’m in north Central Wi.

 

[Dogshooter]

Here is an airphoto of a typical strip clear cut for cedar/black spruce/tamarack regen.

Just a random one I pulled off Apple Maps.

 

[Tree Spud]

Forester here.

Cedar does not stump sprout. At least not to any measurable amount.

If you want any chance at regenerating, you will have to clear cut either in strips or patches. The common practice is to cut strips north south, 60-120 feet wide and then leave a strip double that wide, cut another strip, etc. this allows the prevailing westerly winds to blow seed into the cut strips to regenerate.

Problem with cedar is if you have any deer at all, they will eat any regeneration. It’s about impossible to get regen without some sort of ex closure fencing.

The other problem is there is a very limited market for cedar so finding a logger to come cut it is very hard. Also with as wet as the ground is under cedar and as insulated as it is it almost never freezes so getting equipment in is a whole separate challenge.

If you really want to try and regenerate some, you will almost certainly have to fence the deer out for 10-20 years until the regen gets above the reach of the deer.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but that’s been my experience. I’m in north Central Wi.

The above is spot on.

 

[Maddog66]

Are you sure that NWC doesn’t stump sprout? I have 50 acres that sure looks like it did!

I’ll take some pics of what I have and post them.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Are you sure that NWC doesn’t stump sprout? I have 50 acres that sure looks like it did!

I’ll take some pics of what I have and post them.

I have never seen it stump sprout either, but that doesnt mean it doesnt, because I am not very knowledgeable about trees.

 

[homerj1]

White cedars may appear to have stump sprouted due to their naturally having multiple "trunks". I've never seen one actually stump sprout.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

One more thing I think about is how my habitat moves affect wolf success. The more deer I pull to my property, the more wolves that show up.

This is the most maddening part about manipulating a hunting property in wolf country. It seems the better you make it for deer the more likely the deer patterns will be erratic because the wolves are going to key in on the deer numbers focused on the best food around.

I almost wonder if a property wouldn't be best for mature bucks by forgoing food plots entirely and just focusing your improvements on making the best access and stand sites possible that allows you to access/hunt/egress without tipping the deer off you your presence and counting on just good cover (in a sea of cover) and lowest human intrusion to be the attraction for mature bucks.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I think for the most part "Big Bucks" are fairly safe from wolves. They usually take out the fawns, does, and injured deer. But in my experience, when the wolves move in, the deer move out. If you have a lot of deer, it can be several weeks before the wolves leave, and the deer come back.

I live in the big woods, forest area, and the wolves make their rounds, it may be 6 months before I see them on my land, but then they are here, and around the area for a few weeks, then they move to another area, and the deer slowly come back. The wolves may come right back in a few weeks, or be gone for a few more months. It just sucks when they move in right before deer hunting. You can go from several hundred pictures of deer a week, to none for weeks.

 

[Dogshooter]

Cedar doesn’t stump sprout like a maple will. Cedar is a very prolific seeder and what will happen is after a stump has a number of years to decompose, seed will land on it and it is a prefect moist environment to get established. So it will actually grow from seed out of the stump.

In other cases I have seen where it seeds into the “humps” out in a swamp that do not have standing water. Lots of seed so there can be a lot of stems established in a small area giving it the look of stump sprouting because it will only establish on the areas that are not standing water.

If you try to regenerate it thinking you will get stump sprouts, you will be disappointed, it will only regenerate by seed or direct planting.

 

[Dogshooter]

Here is a pic of one growing out of a stump. Not a stump sprout at all but from seed.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Yellow birch is another one that does that. They get scaffolds of roots that have air pockets around them when original stump finally rots away and second tree keeps growing. Funky lookin

 

[BuckSutherland]

I hunt 200 acres of private land down the road from my land. The NE corner of the property has a few OLD cedars up there and then another 1/4 into the Chippewa forest there is a big cedar swamp. Its challenging to even walk back in there. Couple days ago during the gun season I was back on federal land and found a HUGE stand plopped into a big old cedar. Those guys used some serious equipment to do what they did back there. There is ALWAYS buck sign by those cedars. They walk along them like connect the dots.


So I took that idea back to my land and tried it. I have 46 cedars in cages. Half are planted for bedding clumps and the other half are planted along travel corridors. Its already working. My deer are already following along them. I am very impressed with the growth of my cedars. They are doing fantastic placed on the tops of hills or down in the water on my property.


After seeing the deer in the cedars here in N MN there is no way I would ever cut any. We wouldnt have deer by us if we lost those swamps. In a few more years I will have 100 enclosed in cages on my land.

 

[Maddog66]

Thank you all! Very interesting info. I’ve been deer hunting the last week and I’m just getting back to this. But I did remember to take a few pics of the type of NWC clumps I’m talking about. I think, in one of the pics, you can see the ancient stump in the center of a ring of living trunks. Probably supporting the rotten stump re-seeding mechanism?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Forester here.

Hello Forester!!

Correct me if I'm wrong. NWC isn't a TRUE cedar - it's a Thuja species (Arborvitae) - and Eastern red cedar is in the Juniper family??

I hunted deer in Maine for a number of years and the NWC grew wild along swamp & marsh edges. Only thing growing under the NWC was moss. Browse lines could be seen in some areas where the deer had fed on it.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

There is ALWAYS buck sign by those cedars. They walk along them like connect the dots.

Same thing I saw up in Maine. The biggest rubs I ever saw were on NWC trees in Maine. 10" to 12" dia. cedars, that were not just rubbed - but torn up. Usually right along swamp edges. Trails going all along the cedar edges with rubs and scrapes all the way. The areas in Maine that were clear cut for lumber came up in birch, maple, and beech for the most part. The NWC were pretty much to themselves along swamp edges. Areas where they were thick and big, it was dark in there - almost like the last 20 minutes of daylight, even during midday. I found a big, thick shed antler from the previous winter in a thicket of NWC one year. FWIW.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I hunt 200 acres of private land down the road from my land. The NE corner of the property has a few OLD cedars up there and then another 1/4 into the Chippewa forest there is a big cedar swamp. Its challenging to even walk back in there. Couple days ago during the gun season I was back on federal land and found a HUGE stand plopped into a big old cedar. Those guys used some serious equipment to do what they did back there. There is ALWAYS buck sign by those cedars. They walk along them like connect the dots.


So I took that idea back to my land and tried it. I have 46 cedars in cages. Half are planted for bedding clumps and the other half are planted along travel corridors. Its already working. My deer are already following along them. I am very impressed with the growth of my cedars. They are doing fantastic placed on the tops of hills or down in the water on my property.


After seeing the deer in the cedars here in N MN there is no way I would ever cut any. We wouldnt have deer by us if we lost those swamps. In a few more years I will have 100 enclosed in cages on my land.

GREAT PICS, Buck!! Some of your pics remind me of some areas of Maine that I've hunted. Buck sign in the cedars there made the hair stand up on the back of my neck!!! Nothing like the North Woods, IMO.

Those cedars in cages will be a big plus for your area. I've noticed in Maine - and even here in Pa. - that deer like to travel along lines of balsam fir, pine, spruce, hemlock, and NWC ......... especially after the leaves drop from deciduous trees. Like you said - like "connect the dots." I think Sandbur has posted on here about noticing the same travel patterns using evergreens. Nice work on your plantings, Buck!!!

 

[sandbur]

GREAT PICS, Buck!! Some of your pics remind me of some areas of Maine that I've hunted. Buck sign in the cedars there made the hair stand up on the back of my neck!!! Nothing like the North Woods, IMO.

Those cedars in cages will be a big plus for your area. I've noticed in Maine - and even here in Pa. - that deer like to travel along lines of balsam fir, pine, spruce, hemlock, and NWC ......... especially after the leaves drop from deciduous trees. Like you said - like "connect the dots." I think Sandbur has posted on here about noticing the same travel patterns using evergreens. Nice work on your plantings, Buck!!!

If the line of evergreens is broken or ends at a spot, the deer will often pause there, after leaf fall and if not chasing a hot girlfriend.

The buck I shot this fall did a similar thing as he poked his head out of the red cedars before entering a corn plot.

Sometimes, they tend to pause before entering a more exposed location.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bowsnbucks]

If the line of evergreens is broken or ends at a spot, the deer will often pause there, after leaf fall and if not chasing a hot girlfriend.

Agree 100%.

My one son was just upstate hunting for 2 days at a place we've hunted for years. There are old logging trails traversing that BIG area, that were planted on both sides with Norway spruce years ago after the logging. He told me those trails were a torn-up MESS of rubs, scrapes, and broken limbs from bucks thrashing them. Walking those trails is like walking through a dark, shadowy tunnel - PERFECT for cruising bucks that don't want to expose themselves, even in daylight hours. The vast remainder of that large parcel of land is in leafless hardwoods of varying stages of growth. It's easy to see why those dark, spruce-lined trails are the "walkways" for bucks.

As for chasing hot girlfriends - the bucks use those trails for THAT too!! "Running tracks" are seen on those trails as well - before gun season even begins.