logging dilemma

[huntall]

I'm cutting the timber on my property soon. I had pine beetles in some trees and my place needs some timber to be cut to open up around the trees so they don't get stressed and more easily effected by bugs.
I am going to clear maybe 7- 8 acres of pine but not sure exactly how much clearcut. I'm going to thin probably 40- 50 acres of mostly made up of lob lolly pine.

Here is my big Dilemma....i have some prime hardwoods that would bring top dollar that I'm thinking about cutting. This 10 acres hardwoods would really help me financially to pay on some land debt. The big problem is my middle son loves small game hunting and squirrels Is main target. He would still have some fair tinned timber to hunt but not this prime hardwoods.
Financial tells me to pay land debt but it's killing me to think of doing this.

I think I will leave all white oaks and cut the rest. This would still leave good many white oaks.
Iv been thinking this out all day and I've literally got a head ach.

 

[huntall]

I never....ever thought I would even think of cutting my hardwoods. They are worth way more than pine .
Driving me crazy thinking about it.

 

[Bill]

Your son is going to outgrow the squirrels soon. When he does you'll have more prime deer habitat by logging.

 

[Jameson]

Can you put it off until some years in the future without too much risk? If you don't have to have the money now, it might be better to wait.

If you had 10 years to prepare could and would you plant hardwoods now to have them be ready to take the place of the mature trees before too long? Is your place ready to have them cut?

 

[bueller]

It sounds like some more timber harvesting is in your future so if you don't "need" the money now then wait and schedule the hardwood cut for another time.

 

[huntall]

I do have 20 acres that I been planting oaks on for 5 years. I have 90 sawtooth trees and some started making acorns last yr. I had a dwarf chinkipin have acorns last year also. Still got some more years till the regular oaks produce. A lot of the regular oak mix are 5 year in ground. Some was planted 5 ft 3 gal pot oaks back 4 or 5 years ago..

 

[huntall]

Yes a lot of my place is ready to cut.the pines are pretty big and oaks are big.
Not much undergrowth in this 60 acre block

 

[wiscwhip]

Remember, not all hardwoods are created equal as far as deer(and other critters) habitat is concerned. I don't know the "mix" of trees on your place, but would it be worth it economically to leave ALL mast producing trees and just take out the stuff like maple, ash, elm, and maybe even cherry? Maybe you are mostly oaks and then it would not be worth it to try and log just those other species?

 

[huntall]

Remember, not all hardwoods are created equal as far as deer(and other critters) habitat is concerned. I don't know the "mix" of trees on your place, but would it be worth it economically to leave ALL mast producing trees and just take out the stuff like maple, ash, elm, and maybe even cherry? Maybe you are mostly oaks and then it would not be worth it to try and log just those other species?

That sounds like a plan....think I will go mark the ones I'd like to leave and see what it looks like.

 

[woodduck]

Maybe you could just do a Timber Stand Improvement on your hardwood stand. By taking out some of your poor quality trees you will still keep a lot of your better quality trees for the future. You will still keep your hardwood stand for you son, gain some income and improve your hardwood stands health at the same time. You will also be able to have another timber harvest on your hardwoods in another 10 years or so if done correctly. Consider hiring a forester to mark and oversee the logging operation. If you want to mark it yourself try not to diameter cut but instead cut all sizes and age classes of trees. Just because 2 trees are the same size doesn't mean there the same age or are in the same health. If you think about the health of your forest then you will be able to enjoy it for a long time and you will gain more income over time rather than in one big check.

 

[huntall]

Thanks for the comments. ..helps a lot!
Gonna take a look this weekend.

 

[buckdeer1]

I have only timbered walnut but one thing I learned was sometimes you can't tell the quality of all trees until they hi the ground.They explained to me that sometimes trees left too long are just like a crop left in the field too long and the value starts to go down.I had trees that looked perfectly healthy and when cut were hollow for 15 ft.Thin 1/3 or 1/2 leave producers and take the trees that are crowding or will crowd "wolf trees".Make sure in your state what the tax implications are as sometimes that takes some planning to get as much as you want.

 

[huntall]

Well meet with the logger and he is willing to work with me any way I decided to do.
I can't believe that hardwoods is bringing so much money. It's bringing more per acre than I bought my last 15 acres a little over a year ago. I marked off probably 7-8 acres and I'm only keeping the white oaks.

 

[huntall]

I don't know of anyone who has done this but I'm thinking of taking the 15 acres of mixed timber and instead of clearing it...im thinking of saving all white oaks ( they are spaced out on this 15 acres). Pluss it's lot of probably 4-8 inch round oaks that I'm guessing may range in height from 20- 25 ft.....just guessing. I'm thinking of marking all those oaks and do a thinning with leaving only those acorn producing trees that are nice straight good looking young oaks.
I think I could have one every 20 ft or so on the whole 15 acres.

This was natural regeneration so not all trees are same size. Basically in this 15 acres I'd b taking out all pines and a amount of miscellaneous hardwoods .

 

[huntall]

I talked to logger and he said he would do a thinning and leave the oaks like I wanted.

I always see a pine thinning but usually don't see a thinning leaving oaks in place .
This would save a bunch years on growth.
I'm tired of park like area and I'm opening things up. I'm ready for some thickets.
Pluss this would give the oaks time to outgrow the vegetation when it thicken up

 

[bueller]

With the additional "air space", how long before the oaks you are leaving spread their canopies out enough to shade out anything trying to grow underneath?

 

[huntall]

This all has been a 60 acre block with no bedding area or ground cover. And I blocked off a block of my big hardwoods that wi ll not b touched. This will make big diversity on 60 acres. My land that joins this 60 has bedding area and we see a lot more deer on it. The rest of the 60 acres is just going to do normal TSI

 

[huntall]

With the additional "air space", how long before the oaks you are leaving spread their canopies out enough to shade out anything trying to grow underneath?

Not sure, but I'm sure there will b some areas in the logging process that there will b areas further apart or nearer in some cases.
This will b 15 acres between a thicket and a new 7-8 acre clearcut so on think it would still b ok

 

[huntall]

I just think it would b an awesome project to fool with. Especially since hardwoods bringing good money. This would save a lot of years off growing time from now for my boys also.

 

[j-bird]

A selective timber harvest was the best thing I did on my place. It took me a while to come to terms with the idea of cutting trees to make a better habitat. When I saw what was done I wondered "What did I do? I have ruined my woods!" That was roughly 5 years ago and I openly share my experience with timber cutting because it went so well in the end. My place was obviously high-graded years before and I had lots of large junk trees that where closing the canopy and crowding valuable crop trees. We removed those and retained a gross majority of the oak (we removed some damaged oak and the like, but only those that we damaged). The understory exploded with the available sunlight. The amount of browse and cover is just awesome. I am actually looking forward to the next cutting. All trees can become too mature - they start to die and thus loose their value.....even oaks. It is important to understand that it's a cycle and we have to sometimes help that cycle along for the health of the overall habitat. The cover and food created help support other animal populations beyond just the deer as well. In looking back I wish I had cut even a little heavier than we did, but that simply means I will have another cutting sooner than expected.