Lets talk clover

[wiscwhip]

Another rave review for good ole medium red clover. I had planned on tilling it in this year to plant more brassicas but I don't know if I can get myself to destroy such a good looking lush field in hopes that the brassicas take, highly dependant on rainfall here in the Central Sands. The clover was planted late summer 2012. How many years can I get out of it? I've never had to mow it, the deer take care of that. It did flower and I assume it dropped seed last year.

Bueller, was it VNS or was it an improved variety like Arlington or Marathon? The "named" varieties seem to last longer in the hay fields of the farmers I help out, they plant tons of the stuff for dairy pasture. Most all of them use an improved variety, I know a couple use the Duration Red Clover from LaCrosse Seed and they get 4 years from it in a pasture/hay type setting no problem. It seems to hold up to cow traffic and wheel traffic quite well.

In your case, if it is still lush and thick. I would consider leaving it. If it is still looking good and you tear it up and we end up having a drought on that sand over there this summer, you'll kick yourself in the @$$ for plowing it up. I would think that even on that sand, once you get it established it should last 2 to 3 summers, if it doesn't get too dry. The nice thing is you can just broadcast radishes, ppt, and cereals into it for your fall planting and they should take off as long as the deer are keeping it mowed to a reasonable height.

 

[bueller]

Just regular ole medium red clover from the co-op. Im leaning towards leaving it as is until it shows signs of coming to end.

 

[bueller]

When I was plottin' in Juneau Cty. I would have never gotten rid of a stand of anything that was doing well :p

Lol that's what the logical part of my brain is telling me. The other 90% is what gives me fits :mad:

 

[huntall]

Thanks everyone for your responses! Lots of good information here!

 

[Native Hunter]

This is a mix of Red, some annual clovers from a BOB bag, and Durana which was planted last fall with some mixed cereal grains.

Right now the Red is getting hammered more than any plot I have ever seen in this area, but there is so much of it for the number of deer here, they can't keep up with it.

I've only been food plotting for two years, so a novice here - but a lucky novice. No soil test and no fertilizer. Now if I just knew how to manage it the rest of the year.

Was thinking about letting everything go to seed and then mowing at about 7 inches late in the summer so it would be coming in nice this fall. Any thoughts on managing this would be appreciated.

 

[bueller]

If I had ground that grew clover that well I'd mow it now to knock back any weeds and to encourage some new growth on the clover. If your going to mow I would do it soon before the summer really gets its grip. Then a second mowing late summer / early fall.

 

[Native Hunter]

If I had ground that grew clover that well I'd mow it now to knock back any weeds and to encourage some new growth on the clover. If your going to mow I would do it soon before the summer really gets its grip. Then a second mowing late summer / early fall.

Thanks for the advice. I did actually mow a part of it recently that had some weeds, but didn't mow any of it where I saw no weeds. Where I did mow the clover bounced back really quickly and the weeds didn't seem to come back very much.

 

[dipper]

Weeds won't ruin a clover plot, but COOL SEASON GRASS will. Especially a thick lush patch of clover like that. Now-it appears there is some cool season grass growing at the bottom of your first pic, it's what 3"s tall. When you cut it like you did, you "opened up the canopy" for that grass. It is no longer being smothered by that jungle of clover, it's on the same playing field, it will spread and eventually choke the clover out.
Seed companies say clover only lasts 3 years or so. That's complete BS. I can turn sparse red clover into a dense stand in 2 years. All you have to do is let it reseed itself and CONTROL THE GRASS. If you do so, clover can last forever. Herbicide isn't the only trick at controlling grass either.

 

[Native Hunter]

Weeds won't ruin a clover plot, but COOL SEASON GRASS will. Especially a thick lush patch of clover like that. Now-it appears there is some cool season grass growing at the bottom of your first pic, it's what 3"s tall. When you cut it like you did, you "opened up the canopy" for that grass. It is no longer being smothered by that jungle of clover, it's on the same playing field, it will spread and eventually choke the clover out.
Seed companies say clover only lasts 3 years or so. That's complete BS. I can turn sparse red clover into a dense stand in 2 years. All you have to do is let it reseed itself and CONTROL THE GRASS. If you do so, clover can last forever. Herbicide isn't the only trick at controlling grass either.

Thanks Dipper. That path was the only place I mowed, and I knew it would not be good for clover, but I just wanted a path there that I will keep mowed low to walk through. There will likely be some grass problems in the plot at some point since it has had Orchard Grass at that spot in the past.

I should get plenty of clover reseeding, since there aren't enough deer to knock it back that much. I have some Cleth if I need it later on and would like to hear any other thoughts on controlling grass and keeping the clover going.

PS: I did have one small area where I saw some yellow rocket very early in the spring. I did mow just that spot, and it seemed to make a difference. The clover came back quickly and seemed to choke out the YR. I can't even see it now, but time will tell. I also have some 24DB if I need it later.

Thanks again - Steve

 

[wildfire]

You can always spray with glypho this time of year with adequate moisture, per Ed Spinazzola.Must be 3 years old to spray.

 

[dipper]

Nh-not even 100 deer/ square mile will keep red clover mowed. That's a testament to itsversatility, not its attract ability. Keep on eye on that clover you have. It's flowering g out now. What happens is the plant will die back after it fully seeds. What it will also do is resprout from the base. Giving you tender young growth, just as if it was mowed.
Initially the new growth isn't as abundant as if it was mowed, but it will always be there. It's not like you need it to be super attractive right now anyway. Remind yourself it is giving you fawning cover, and the deer will find that tender new growth. They are browsers not grazers.

 

[Native Hunter]

Good info Dipper. Much appreciated!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Dipper - You said control the grass and clover can last for YEARS. Native Hunter & you were talking RED CLOVER. Does the same advice apply to white clover? Does white clover last as long as the red if the grass is controlled? We have a plot of Ladino, White Dutch, and Alsike & would like to keep it going for as long as possible.

 

[dipper]

Dipper - You said control the grass and clover can last for YEARS. Native Hunter & you were talking RED CLOVER. Does the same advice apply to white clover? Does white clover last as long as the red if the grass is controlled? We have a plot of Ladino, White Dutch, and Alsike & would like to keep it going for as long as possible.

Yup, cool season grass is still enemy #1 in white clover.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks, guys. As much as I read & research, it's always good to get info from guys who've " been there - done that ". Much appreciated.

 

[dipper]

Frost seeding isn't needed if you let the clover reseed itself.

 

[wildfire]

The last time you were wrong, you thought you were. I have durana and patriot clover, they get thicker each year. I added kopu II and kura to my last plot.

 

[dipper]

I have no idea if it was needed or not, as I did allow clover to set seed most years. Seemed like really cheap insurance to throw some down. I have no idea the percentages of hard seed that most clovers produce, but I think it is quite variable. I also think most white clovers spread via stolons rather than seed, but could be wrong on that.

It keeps popping up in my lawn and I keep killing it, I wish it only reproduced one way. Clover is really a weed, I treat it that way and it has no problems growing.

 

[huntall]

Im in the south, and i had never heard of red clover, just the white clovers and crimson. The most talk I hear about is ladino , durana, and then crimson.

I will have to do some searching to see how the red does in my area.
Lots of good talk about it on here!
Thanks for the info.

 

[bryant]

Huntall, the place I hunt is in north arkansas and we use medium red mixed with ladino and crimson and considering our poor soil it does very well.