Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
a good combo of both..it was hard to tell this fall with the rye but i think its something like 70:30 broadleaves:grasses
Less than ideal - but success
- Thread starter Bowsnbucks
- Start date
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
I would mow as my main method of weed control with most being broadleaves. Monthly if you need to. Then could just spot spray clethodim on areas with grass infestations vs trying to blanket spray the entire plot.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
we tried cleth this spring and it may have been too early and by 2 fellows (my dad and brother) who were not quite familiar with the sprayer and its operation...but htere was no visible impact on the weeds...
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Cleth is not effective if it's cold out. Later in the spring when grasses are actively growing is best.
Being a selective herbicide, it will not harm broadleaves.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I always thought you had to get the grasses while they were pretty small...if we get a few days in the spring that are warm it seems like the grasses get too good of a jump on me (was also using the sprayer for one of the first times and may not have had it set up right either...)
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
Mow first, let the grasses regrow, then hit them. Be sure and mix with crop oil.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
gotcha! would that mowing be done really early? like as soon as the grasses start growing or mow at the normal time (for us that's in may/june) then hit it with cleth? thanks!
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I think if we can shade to the "some grew good" side of the ledger then we are doing ok...I just overseed by a factor of 3X to help haha
PatinPA
5 year old buck +
Oh ya. The overseed with Rye has done wonders for my food plots. Cereal grains in general are my best path forward at least at the moment. Brassica, clovers, peas have just been ehh ok. Still need some work. I know most of it is just my terrible soil which is just going to take time.
I planted 3 plum trees (Lowes leftovers) that were primed for a big year but then they got black knot fungus all over them which seems to really stunted them. They were loaded with plums early on but they all disappeared. Now this spring I'm going to have to cut large parts of the trees away to get rid of it. That was disappointing.
I cut a new deer trail to guide them from where they like to cross from the neighbors to my newest food plot. It didn't seem to get used very much for whatever reason. I'm going to have to reshape and rethink that this year.
oh well, what fun would it be if it were easy
Bassattackr
5 year old buck +
When the grasses start actively growing. Could be earlier in the year (If CSG), or perhaps later in the year if foxtail, etc.
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I'm learning more and more that your basic soil makeup from the beginning really helps...I have now planted on 4 different properties and have found such differing results I could write a book.
On our farm I tried to grow turnips once...they all grew 6" leaves and had no bulbs (I honestly think the rocky soil prevented much growth downwards)....
I tried turnips at my house in an old hayfield and BOOM large 2' leaves and big bulbs (with no amendments or soil testing--but with good rain and a good spraying that killed the competition--definitely got lucky on a field that had been previously farmed).....
tried a similar approach 5 miles from my house in old fields that hadnt been farmed in 50 years and WR, MRC and alsike were the only things that grew well (and that with literally tons of liming, fertilizer and babying)...tried turnips there too only to have very small leaves and no bulbs...
I think you could be 100 yards from a productive field and still have bad results based on available sunlight, previous use of the field, the amount and timing of soil prep, and your choices of what to plant (and when)...I try to take copious notes to help but when it rains 9" in September (this year) and 0.9" of rain in Augst and September (last year)...the results are so vastly different.
I love the experimental part of everything we do and plan and the fun is in seeing what does and doesn't work for what we are aiming at.
PatinPA
5 year old buck +
Soil is by far my biggest problem. There is a lack of sunlight. I'm on the North slope to begin with. But topsoil is almost non existent in the woods. There is about 2 inches then nothing but rocks. There is some soil in my camp yard plot and it by far has the most sunlight. I have yet to figure out how to hunt it though. The deer bed very close to it and the prevailing winds almost always blow to where they are bedded. There are always daylight deer in it and the bigger buck use it in the daylight pretty often too.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Let's go back and think about weed control. We can't do that without considering what makes a weed a weed. I need to make a simple statement and it's not meant to insult any one's intelligence. It's meant to drag the desirable plants into the conversation. We want more of the good stuff annually or over a long period of time and less of the bad stuff that hinders us from growing the good stuff. For both of those actions to occur it's essential to consider all the plants, both good AND bad. What do all plants need? Again, simple enough. Moisture, nutrition, water, and some heat. Each species has it's own personality - its own characteristics. The basic stuff we know, It's a perennial or an annual. It's a broadleaf or a grass. Each plant has an above ground leaf surface and a below ground root system.
Those simple things are at the top of consideration for selecting a contact herbicide (as opposed to a soil applied pre-emergent herbicide). Some herbicides only act (negatively) on grasses. On the other hand, broadleaves can synthesize or digest the herbicide. Vice-versa, grasses can digest some herbicides while broadleaves cannot. And there are the herbicides that don't give a darn.
For any of these herbicides to work - or not work -the plant's system has to be in a vulnerable position. The conditions need to be right for that to occur. Every plant has a time in it's growth cycle where the conditions are right. Those moments are probably less frequent than moments when the conditions are wrong. There's a lot more to it. You need to know your plants.
Let's get to clover specifics and the idea of using glyphosate to get rid of the undesirable weeds. There are many varieties of clover. All are legumes. That's a consideration in herbicide selection. A dose of 2,4-D will badly hurt or kill it (remember, if the conditions are right), but a twist on the chemical structure of 2, 4-D making it 2,4-DB, will (probably) not. The legume's digestive system (will the scientists forgive me) will render the poison harmless. So, while clover is a broadleaf plant, you can kill other broadleaf plants among the clover (Chorus: If the conditions are right). Let's broaden the picture.
Some clovers might be consider annuals or bi-annuals. Like with most short lived plants, there's a lot of top growth relatively less root system. Good plants or bad plants, annuals are easier to kill than a long established perennial.
Long-lived perennial clover varieties, depending on their age, can hardly be killed at all because of the total size of the plant. It's top growth is dwarfed by its supporting root system. For a contact herbicide like 2,4-d or glyphosate to kill clover -- or any other perennial -- the herbicide has to be transported (that's a subject for another day) entirely through the plant's root system. But all you can do is apply the herbicide on the plant leaves. Now you're up against it. Plant leaves have defense systems that allow good stuff (like air and water) in and keep bad stuff out. Think about surfactants and their purpose.
Call a plant's internal transportation system used for moving food and water thru the plant THE BUS. Here's the bad news. THE BUS runs on a limited schedule. Sometimes it doesn't run at all. This is true of all plants and the bus schedule is different in different seasons. Some plants (warm-season) like summer's heat and THE BUS runs really fast then. And it runs really, really fast, like NASCAR fast, sometime after its initial emergence and before the summer doldrums set in. Clover is the opposite. It likes the cool seasons like spring and fall and can actually go to sleep (go dormant) in the hot, dry part of the summer. Then, THE BUS doesn't run at all.
We can play that knowledge to control weeds in clover. Glyphosate needs to ride THE BUS. If you feel the need to control summer annuals (and I question the need, but it depends on your particular circumstances) try some glyphosate. DISCLAIMER / WARNING: I would never use gly on clover I wasn't prepared to lose!
You might even get away with gly on clover in the fall and spring, clover's prime growing periods IF (can I make the IF bigger?) IF it's a well established perennial clover. THE BUS carrying the herbicide will, hopefully, run out of gas before it moves the gly through the entire root system. You'll get some top kill, but the root system still has food and it's greedy. It wants more green so it can replenish is food storehouse. Stealing food reserves is never a good idea, but like with honey, you can take some but leave some behind behind to feed the bees.
I'm not sure I made the point. Gly on clover. There are calls to use a light dose. Good for killing annuals in your clover because annuals have relatively small root systems and a big rate of application isn't necessary. There's a not insignificant probability gly will kill clovers considered annual or bi-annual or newly established stand of perennial clovers. It just depends how fast THE BUS is running when you do the application. Older stands of perennial clovers, those with well established, massive root systems stand a good chance of surviving because THE BUS doesn't have enough fuel to complete the necessary trip.
Good luck and Best Wishes! Peace, good will, and happiness for you this Christmas and every other!
Those simple things are at the top of consideration for selecting a contact herbicide (as opposed to a soil applied pre-emergent herbicide). Some herbicides only act (negatively) on grasses. On the other hand, broadleaves can synthesize or digest the herbicide. Vice-versa, grasses can digest some herbicides while broadleaves cannot. And there are the herbicides that don't give a darn.
For any of these herbicides to work - or not work -the plant's system has to be in a vulnerable position. The conditions need to be right for that to occur. Every plant has a time in it's growth cycle where the conditions are right. Those moments are probably less frequent than moments when the conditions are wrong. There's a lot more to it. You need to know your plants.
Let's get to clover specifics and the idea of using glyphosate to get rid of the undesirable weeds. There are many varieties of clover. All are legumes. That's a consideration in herbicide selection. A dose of 2,4-D will badly hurt or kill it (remember, if the conditions are right), but a twist on the chemical structure of 2, 4-D making it 2,4-DB, will (probably) not. The legume's digestive system (will the scientists forgive me) will render the poison harmless. So, while clover is a broadleaf plant, you can kill other broadleaf plants among the clover (Chorus: If the conditions are right). Let's broaden the picture.
Some clovers might be consider annuals or bi-annuals. Like with most short lived plants, there's a lot of top growth relatively less root system. Good plants or bad plants, annuals are easier to kill than a long established perennial.
Long-lived perennial clover varieties, depending on their age, can hardly be killed at all because of the total size of the plant. It's top growth is dwarfed by its supporting root system. For a contact herbicide like 2,4-d or glyphosate to kill clover -- or any other perennial -- the herbicide has to be transported (that's a subject for another day) entirely through the plant's root system. But all you can do is apply the herbicide on the plant leaves. Now you're up against it. Plant leaves have defense systems that allow good stuff (like air and water) in and keep bad stuff out. Think about surfactants and their purpose.
Call a plant's internal transportation system used for moving food and water thru the plant THE BUS. Here's the bad news. THE BUS runs on a limited schedule. Sometimes it doesn't run at all. This is true of all plants and the bus schedule is different in different seasons. Some plants (warm-season) like summer's heat and THE BUS runs really fast then. And it runs really, really fast, like NASCAR fast, sometime after its initial emergence and before the summer doldrums set in. Clover is the opposite. It likes the cool seasons like spring and fall and can actually go to sleep (go dormant) in the hot, dry part of the summer. Then, THE BUS doesn't run at all.
We can play that knowledge to control weeds in clover. Glyphosate needs to ride THE BUS. If you feel the need to control summer annuals (and I question the need, but it depends on your particular circumstances) try some glyphosate. DISCLAIMER / WARNING: I would never use gly on clover I wasn't prepared to lose!
You might even get away with gly on clover in the fall and spring, clover's prime growing periods IF (can I make the IF bigger?) IF it's a well established perennial clover. THE BUS carrying the herbicide will, hopefully, run out of gas before it moves the gly through the entire root system. You'll get some top kill, but the root system still has food and it's greedy. It wants more green so it can replenish is food storehouse. Stealing food reserves is never a good idea, but like with honey, you can take some but leave some behind behind to feed the bees.
I'm not sure I made the point. Gly on clover. There are calls to use a light dose. Good for killing annuals in your clover because annuals have relatively small root systems and a big rate of application isn't necessary. There's a not insignificant probability gly will kill clovers considered annual or bi-annual or newly established stand of perennial clovers. It just depends how fast THE BUS is running when you do the application. Older stands of perennial clovers, those with well established, massive root systems stand a good chance of surviving because THE BUS doesn't have enough fuel to complete the necessary trip.
Good luck and Best Wishes! Peace, good will, and happiness for you this Christmas and every other!
