Less than ideal - but success

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
Our camp sits on a ridge top in the mountains of northern Pa. It's an old farmstead with established fields, and plenty of weeds to battle. The soil isn't rich, loamy bottomland. But I thought I'd share a "spray-and-throw" we tried.

On a large plot that has SOME established clover in it, we scratched the soil lightly with a spring-tooth harrow after spraying it a week earlier with glyphosate. The weeds and grass were just turning yellow and brown from the earlier spraying when we broadcast turnips, radishes, rape, kale, and 2 varieties of red clover over the plot. The existing clover didn't die , and the newly-seeded stuff came up nice and thick. Like others have said on here, the dying weeds and grass acted like a mulch of sorts. The deer have been hammering that plot lately. What was a brown, "wasteland"-looking field, became a thick, green cafeteria for the deer. The deer have it clipped off in most places to around 2" tall. It had gotten up to about 8" before the deer began to hit it.

The nice thing was, it took minimal tractor work - just scratching with the harrow. We didn't even cultipack it. Once the brassica components (turnips, radishes, rape) die off at the end of winter, we'll still have a nice, thick clover plot to tweak next year. This was our first real try at minimal soil disturbance planting. We'll be using this method again - especially for weed-infested plots past their prime.
 
Dumb question I'm sure, but why didnt the gly kill the established clover?
 
Hey Bows, glad the spray and throw brassicas and clover worked well for you. my clover field is mostly grass and weeds. What time of the year did you do thus? And did you apply fertilizeR?
 
Dumb question I'm sure, but why didnt the gly kill the established clover?
I read on here (by one of the experienced farm guys - don't remember who) that a less potent concentration of gly will kill weeds and grass, but not the established clover. Their advice said the gly would "set back" the clover - but wouldn't kill it. At least in our plot, it seems to have worked for the most part. I had my doubts - thought it would be a total wipeout - but it wasn't. The grass & weeds took a bit to die down with the lighter dose of gly, but they died just the same.
 
Hey Bows, glad the spray and throw brassicas and clover worked well for you. my clover field is mostly grass and weeds. What time of the year did you do thus? And did you apply fertilizeR?
The plot was sprayed the first few days of September. It was seeded around the 10th of September. We did broadcast 10-10-10 fertilizer after seeding - but not a heavy shot of it. I suspect a follow-up round of urea might have made the brassicas blast off, but we had no more budget left for buying urea this fall. We're buying a bunch of seedlings and trees for next spring, so the money went there.

We need to get the brassicas planted sooner, so they have a chance to get big - but getting help is sometimes the toughest chore. That's life. The years we planted them in early to mid-August, the turnips and radishes got huge. More time to grow makes a difference.
 
Jack writes about spraying clover with gly and has had success

I dont recall details( rate,timing,etc)

perhaps he will comment

bill
 
When I spray with Gly, clover is pushed back but always rebounds.
 
When I spray with Gly, clover is pushed back but always rebounds.
This is exactly what we saw. The new clover emerged to thicken what was already there.

I suspect we'll have to spray that plot with cleth - next summer - to deal with foxtail that's in the seed bank there. Maybe the clover will help smother some of it to a degree??
 
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When I spray with Gly, clover is pushed back but always rebounds.

This has been our experience, Gly knocks clover back but doesn’t kill it. That is the full dose, not even the half dose that people talk about Using. The full dose knocks the clover back to where it looks dead but it does eventually comes back.
 
What rate are you considering full rate? Half rate?
 
I feel you need rain for that clover to bounce back after the light dose of roundup. It has worked and it has failed.

I wouldn’t do it if you expect heat or drought stress on the clover.


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Sandbur -

Don't you ag guys advise NOT to even mow clover in hot dry spells?? (let alone spray with gly) I thought I read that somewhere on here - some way back.
 
I am interested in this strategy, as I have some good stands of clover/WR planted this fall....should I mow the WR, wait a bit then spray? This would probably be in about early to mid-May here in NC PA.
Also, I have a spray on exit sprayer that has settings per gallon...sprayed this fall for a new plot at 6oz/gallon...would 2-3 oz/gal work for the lighter dose?
Thanks!
 
If you're asking me, Derek - I can't help you. I'm still learning this spraying regimen too!!! The guys with AG experience about spraying for weeds and grass hopefully will chime in. I think it depends on the soil / climate / rainfall conditions when you spray, too.
 
If you're asking me, Derek - I can't help you. I'm still learning this spraying regimen too!!! The guys with AG experience about spraying for weeds and grass hopefully will chime in. I think it depends on the soil / climate / rainfall conditions when you spray, too.
thats cool Bows...I was just putting it out there for the crowd...I was thinking of trying it in the spring when things green up for a while, hit it with the lighter dose and see how it does and mow if necessary (or not if the gly does a good job on everything but the clover)? I am thinking this along with some good frost seeding should improve my already pretty good clover but I'm still new to the spraying game and have had terrible experiences with cleth/a few others but gly has always seemed to work well for me...
 
Sandbur -

Don't you ag guys advise NOT to even mow clover in hot dry spells?? (let alone spray with gly) I thought I read that somewhere on here - some way back.
This is definitely the case. I would avoid mowing if it is above the low 80's.

Definitely make sure that the clover is at least a year old and actively growing, and not under drought or heat stress, before attempting the glyphosate application. Also, if you have a mix of clover and alfalfa, I definitely would not try this approach as the alfalfa is more sensitive to the glyphosate, even when fully established. I have used the label rate of glyphosate (qt/acre) in the past, but I would rather use sequential applications of a slightly lighter rate.

With that said, I have just moved to using clethodim. I think both approaches work but I am willing to pay the extra expense to follow label recommendations and for the peace of mind. Clethodim also has its own limitations on when you can spray, but it is worth it.
 
With that said, I have just moved to using clethodim.
We use cleth too in our clover and alfalfa plots. The only time we tried using gly in an established plot was this fall. It was only a mix of red clovers - planted the previous fall - and it had lots of grass and weeds in it. We sprayed it to kill the grass and weeds, hoping the clover wouldn't croak entirely. We based that hope on info from on here, and other sources too. The advised "setting-back" of the clover was what happened, and it didn't die off. A week after spraying, we broadcast more red clover, PTT, DER, GHR, and Pasja forage brassica over top of the dying junk, after scratching the soil with a harrow. The new stuff came up really well and the deer are hammering it. Next spring / summer, we should have a great plot of mixed red clovers once the brassica mix dies off.

That was our first and only attempt at spraying gly into an established plot - and it had no alfalfa in it. The guys on here who advised that gly could be sprayed on un-stressed clover without killing it were CORRECT. It worked for us anyway in this instance. Hopefully, we learned a little something by trying it.

Thanks for the additional info. I try to make notes in our cabin "journal" with info from on here for future reference.
 
I am interested in this strategy, as I have some good stands of clover/WR planted this fall....should I mow the WR, wait a bit then spray? This would probably be in about early to mid-May here in NC PA.

Curious, what are you trying to accomplish? Terminating the rye? If you don't want it to go to seed you could mow or spray, but you could just leave it and do nothing also.. Helping to keep weeds at bay in the interim. Mowing before boot stage will cause it to continue to grow and try and head out. Repeated mowing will make it fizzle out eventually.. Or just mow at boot / dough stage if you don't want the volunteer seed.

If you'd rather spray to terminate - Clethodim would be best, especially if you have CSG or annual grass (foxtail, etc) competition.
 
Curious, what are you trying to accomplish? Terminating the rye? If you don't want it to go to seed you could mow or spray, but you could just leave it and do nothing also.. Helping to keep weeds at bay in the interim. Mowing before boot stage will cause it to continue to grow and try and head out. Repeated mowing will make it fizzle out eventually.. Or just mow at boot / dough stage if you don't want the volunteer seed.

If you'd rather spray to terminate - Clethodim would be best, especially if you have CSG or annual grass (foxtail, etc) competition.
I think the goal would be to give the clover more of a start (it was al already established clover plot last fall, then added more clover and the rye) and to control the weeds better going into the beginning of the growing season....also this plot gets hammered hard in late winter/early spring as its only a half acre and its really the only green field around for quite a ways...we have mowed the rye before in late May and by then the weeds are already getting a good foothold...I guess we could mow it sooner but depending on the weather it might not be the best and I want the weeds to start growing before spraying
 
Are they broadleaf weeds or grasses? This would change my approach. If they are broadleaves, I would mow.
 
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