Is it time to quit with perennial clover?

S.T.Fanatic

5 year old buck +
I planted annual clovers in the fall for the first time this past year. The deer were on them as soon as they started to grow. My experience with white and red has been so so. It makes sense to me to just spray weedy clover and over seed a couple of weeks later with annual for fall attraction.
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
Seems reasonable to cut it out if you're planting annuals in the same location every year.

Curious on reasoning for hairy vetch and yellow sweet clover in the mix?

And no Triticale?

We’re kinda talking about two different plot objectives at once here, and I haven’t been perfectly clear on that. The nursery plot is supposed to be about fawn cover (rye), beneficial bugs (sweet clover and vetch), and fall cover (sweet clover).

I don’t really want deer to feed up there In October and November, but they did this past year. They ate on all of it.

No triticale on that plot either. I tried some in corners, but again, I didn’t want anymore pull up in that plot. I just want big, colorful, and durable cover, and maybe some late season rye pull.


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TreeDaddy

5 year old buck +
Clover alone sucks. It's a second rate forage, and if it doesn't allow some partners, it's gonna get choked off by grasses we can't control.

Did you add gypsum?

bill

Sorry, man..... too good to pass up😁
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
Did you add gypsum?

bill

Sorry, man..... too good to pass up😁
You know, we may need to revisit the whole gypsum conversation for the 21st century. Everyone needs to be thinking about managing toxicity from barium, strontium, aluminum, and silver toxicity in their soils. I think we're gonna be stuck needing to do annual maintenance applications until we get a handle on what's happening out there.
 

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
You know, we may need to revisit the whole gypsum conversation for the 21st century. Everyone needs to be thinking about managing toxicity from barium, strontium, aluminum, and silver toxicity in their soils. I think we're gonna be stuck needing to do annual maintenance applications until we get a handle on what's happening out there.
If I'm following this "trail" correctly ...... I suppose we should then worry about leftover space debris & new elements from alien craft landings ?? Or maybe prehistoric volcanic pumice
laced with unknown elements?? I hope I'm onto what you and Tree Daddy are laying down here!! 😄
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
If I'm following this "trail" correctly ...... I suppose we should then worry about leftover space debris & new elements from alien craft landings ?? Or maybe prehistoric volcanic pumice
laced with unknown elements?? I hope I'm onto what you and Tree Daddy are laying down here!!

We all have to keep an eye on what’s going on out there.


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BrushyPines

5 year old buck +
Excellent articles! Dont know what I would do without you guys!
 

bigboreblr

5 year old buck +
I tried to get a pic of my semi fallow clover field the other day. Couldn't find a single plantain in it. I know it's there because it comes back every year. Kind of an eye sore in the summer, but the deer must of ate it.

1st year doing the winter rye rotation. Very little to no deer activity compared to other years. But, my area is recovering from a 2021 EHD outbreak. So, there's plenty of browse for them. Also, alot of city folks moved in full time since covid and a house was built behind mine in a brushed up abandoned apple orhard in 2021. So, year to year patterns could be off from before.
 

bigboreblr

5 year old buck +
You know, we may need to revisit the whole gypsum conversation for the 21st century. Everyone needs to be thinking about managing toxicity from barium, strontium, aluminum, and silver toxicity in their soils. I think we're gonna be stuck needing to do annual maintenance applications until we get a handle on what's happening out there.
I am a little befuddled about what is organic and what is not. Supposedly, commercial NPK is a sin because it has trace arsenic and other nasty stuff. However, it's ok to dumps tos of other ground minerals (lime) into the ground. Nuclear power plants are usally placed near other spots on navigable rivers. Some plants have to go miles away from coal, lime, and salt piles because it actually produces more radiation than from inside the plant. hard to zero a radiation sensor in a situation like that.


I think tannins might be the missing link between why deer like clover in one spot vs the other. I rented a house near my cabin for a week in 2020. I filled up a dozen 5 gallon water jugs, so the guys would have clean washing water for the season that year. So much mineral and tannin the water looked like someone poured red maple stain in it.

The last few years, the food plot seem to be like a doe factory, I am due to change over a plot up north. Might try your green cover mix. a shot. Put cameras in each plot and see if a food plot up there can attract a big buck. MY best plot in 2022 did not have a single horned deer in it for the entire summer., but had 2 different doe groups visit daily.

Now that I think about it about, there's not a huge difference between chickory and plantain in the plant spectrum.

I haven't tried balasana clover much, besides what imperial clover has in it. Dutch white for sure is a plot hog. Thats why I like it. However, ladino is more mild mannered. Medium Red comes on strong, but is short lived if resseding doesnt happen, or go well. I'd imagine medium red clover would be less agressive than balsana. I could be wrong with the imperial clover. That good white with pink base flowers of clover is the good stuff in there. Is that their improved ladino, or is it Balsana they add to it. I hate buying the expensive bag, but I do get good clover from it. Of course, in your case and purpose too good. I'd definitely do a half n half with the Balsana.

That picture, did you completely redo a plot? Nuke it dead, tillage, etc?
 
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SD51555

5 year old buck +
I am a little befuddled about what is organic and what is not. Supposedly, commercial NPK is a sin because it has trace arsenic and other nasty stuff. However, it's ok to dumps tos of other ground minerals (lime) into the ground. Nuclear power plants are usally placed near other spots on navigable rivers. Some plants have to go miles away from coal, lime, and salt piles because it actually produces more radiation than from inside the plant. hard to zero a radiation sensor in a situation like that.


I think tannins might be the missing link between why deer like clover in one spot vs the other. I rented a house near my cabin for a week in 2020. I filled up a dozen 5 gallon water jugs, so the guys would have clean washing water for the season that year. So much mineral and tannin the water looked like someone poured red maple stain in it.

The last few years, the food plot seem to be like a doe factory, I am due to change over a plot up north. Might try your green cover mix. a shot. Put cameras in each plot and see if a food plot up there can attract a big buck. MY best plot in 2022 did not have a single horned deer in it for the entire summer., but had 2 different doe groups visit daily.

Now that I think about it about, there's not a huge difference between chickory and plantain in the plant spectrum.

I haven't tried balasana clover much, besides what imperial clover has in it. Dutch white for sure is a plot hog. Thats why I like it. However, ladino is more mild mannered. Medium Red comes on strong, but is short lived if resseding doesnt happen, or go well. I'd imagine medium red clover would be less agressive than balsana. I could be wrong with the imperial clover. That good white with pink base flowers of clover is the good stuff in there. Is that their improved ladino, or is it Balsana they add to it. I hate buying the expensive bag, but I do get good clover from it. Of course, in your case and purpose too good. I'd definitely do a half n half with the Balsana.

That picture, did you completely redo a plot? Nuke it dead, tillage, etc?
I don't fret about what some other entity tells me is organic, or safe, smart, effective, or healthy. I look at what helps and what does not. Lime and gypsum can both kill and replace organisms just like any other soil amendment will kill a good portion of the biology that is there pre-amendment.

My plots are all doe factories. It doesn't mean there are not bucks there. It just means they are not in your food plots. My buck activity keeps going up each year, but it took an understanding that bucks are not interested in food. They want the ladies, and they don't wanna get shot, so they hang out on the edges. The way I understand it, this is a more northern phenomenon than any place else. Further south you go, it seems bucks using food plots is no big deal and happens every day.

You're a northern guy, no? I'd throw some plantain in. So far, it doesn't seem to be overly powerful out there, so I wouldn't be concerned about having a hard time controlling it later.

The pic of my plot from up above here, that spot was re-done in 2021. I've been out there digging for a few years now expanding size, digging ponds, fixing elevation etc. I smeared pond spoils over that plot to a depth of about 12". It was a good opportunity to reseed it and start fresh. It's fairly heavy clay, so it got a hot dose of calcitic lime and gypsum right away, and then some follow up gypsum applications. It always looks great year 2. The natives haven't started fighting back.

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j-bird

Moderator
You do, what works for YOU.

I say that because every situation is different. Your goals may be different. I have tried some things that some swear "will never work". I can plant 1/4 acre plots of soybeans and they mature to produce grain every year...without any fencing. My situation is different than most. I have planted corn and beans together....when others looked at me like I was nuts. It looks funny....but it worked. One of my most productive stands was quoted as "that is THE dumbest place for a stand I have EVER seen"

The point is....if you have evidence that what you are doing is working...then don't let others cloud your path. Just because it may not follow the norm or the conventional way of thinking doesn't mean it won't work. Can you have a food plot program without perennial clover? Sure you can. It may take some circumstances for that to happen....but it's certainly possible.

Keep in mind deer did just fine well before food plots came along.....
 

bigboreblr

5 year old buck +
How's that plantain in the shadier spots?

Not only folks situations are different, also year to year climate differences can effect results. One guy I knew had a bad experience with putting austrian peas in a field too soon in a hot summer Wouldn't touch them for years, then bought a mix with them in it and planted it on a more average late summer.

Just laying off the importance of the plots up north. Still doing them, still think it's worth the hassle, but likely not hunting as hard as I used to. in them My bad foot is getting better, so I can stalk hunt / silent drive. Also, we got 2 or 3 new members who put trail cameras in log skid paths near thicker brushy spots and in swamp edges. Seen bucks on their cameras mine in the plots never saw. I hunt when I am up there, but it's a more of a fun camp. But, get early muzzleloader all to myself most years.
 

SD51555

5 year old buck +
How's that plantain in the shadier spots?

Not only folks situations are different, also year to year climate differences can effect results. One guy I knew had a bad experience with putting austrian peas in a field too soon in a hot summer Wouldn't touch them for years, then bought a mix with them in it and planted it on a more average late summer.

Just laying off the importance of the plots up north. Still doing them, still think it's worth the hassle, but likely not hunting as hard as I used to. in them My bad foot is getting better, so I can stalk hunt / silent drive. Also, we got 2 or 3 new members who put trail cameras in log skid paths near thicker brushy spots and in swamp edges. Seen bucks on their cameras mine in the plots never saw. I hunt when I am up there, but it's a more of a fun camp. But, get early muzzleloader all to myself most years.
I didn't notice any problems in partial shade. I've got trees on all sides and some within the plot. Didn't notice any exlusion where there was partial shade.
 
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