Hack and Squirt
- Thread starter buckdeer1
- Start date
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I do what TreeDaddy said. Has worked for me at any time of the yr that I've tried it, including summer. I have been fooled a couple of times when the trees went ahead and continued leaving out or growing like nothing happened, but by the end of the season they were dead.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Third the Harper cocktail. Not one tree of 1000s has survived and I haven’t had any non target trees hurt. Use small electric chainsaw to girdle then use a squirt bottle to fill girdle with cocktail.
I have done basal spraying also with success. But I find it’s almost as easy to just use small chainsaw to cut the small trees down then hit stump with cocktail.
I have done basal spraying also with success. But I find it’s almost as easy to just use small chainsaw to cut the small trees down then hit stump with cocktail.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
As for Tordon - it has a lasting residual soil effect, which may kill surrounding trees & plants. Our state forester recommended Triclopyr 4 (generic Garlon = cheaper) and diesel mixed together for hack & squirt, as well as basal spraying for that reason. That mix has killed everything we sprayed with it - with no residual soil effects to kill anything we didn't want killed. This mix fried barberry, AO, and TOH out of existence.
I'm not familiar with Craig Harper's cocktail. I'm not suggesting his won't work - just posting what our state forester recommended.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Interesting as everything I read about Triclopyr 4 was it was no good for H&S, but worked well for basal bark applications. Wonder if what it's doing is really just basal bark treatment with a little help. I don't understand why it's not supposed to work, but what do I know.
But who the heck knows with any of this. I also know that everything I've read says Triclopyr 4 is no good for brush honeysuckle, that I should use Gly on it. But so far the Gly looks to only be having the slightest effect on it. Where some I sprayed last summer with T4 (mixed with water, not oil) is still dead dead. So I dunno.
(Triclopyr 3 works well for H&S, also works well for making you blind if you get it in your eye)
As for Tordon killing surrounding vegetation.... the last couple days I've been wondering how true that is. Because I would LOVE for it to kill surrounding trees and plants! I have acres of nothing but young maple trees and brush honeysuckle. I'd love to be able to treat one tree and have a blast radius added damage. lol
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Guys. Craig Harper is who all the state foresters learn from. He is the best there is. Professor at university of Tennessee who has done studies to prove or disprove habitat work. If he promotes it it is because he has done a study to prove it works, not just anecdotal evidence.
Adding diesel to hack and squirt is not necessary and may make it work less. The oil is help carry the chemical through the bark and cambium layer. With hack and squirt or girdle and squirt you are accessing that layer mechanically already.
Adding diesel to hack and squirt is not necessary and may make it work less. The oil is help carry the chemical through the bark and cambium layer. With hack and squirt or girdle and squirt you are accessing that layer mechanically already.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Can't buy Garlon/Triclopyr 3 in my state, can't make "Craig Harper's cocktail" without it.
(for that matter, I can't buy Tordon in my county)
I end up using straight Glyphosate in a squeeze bottle with a dash of Imazapyr. It's wasteful, but it's been working okay.
(for that matter, I can't buy Tordon in my county)
I end up using straight Glyphosate in a squeeze bottle with a dash of Imazapyr. It's wasteful, but it's been working okay.
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omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’ve used tordon rtu before also. Their little squirt bottle is perfect for girdle and squirt. Buy at least two or three of those size if you also buy the larger size. Then just refill the squirt bottles.
Another thing you can do is email Craig. Tell him limits of your state and I’m sure he will tell you best path forward.
Another thing you can do is email Craig. Tell him limits of your state and I’m sure he will tell you best path forward.
RGrizzzz
Administrator
NY State? PA isn't that far, right?
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
It kind of is. lol Years ago I used to go to PA often to shoot/compete. Today it would add another two hours to the five hour trip. Yick! lol
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
We went by what our state foresters told us - not shooting down Dr. Harper at all. The TOH we hacked & squirted last early September using triclopyr 4 & diesel died pretty quick, and are still dead. Same for basal spraying of AO and barberry. We had to get those invasives killed for a USDA / NRCS EQIP program so our money could be released. That mix is what our foresters told us to use. It worked for us. Gly was used on ferns and stilt grass.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’m sure your forester is great. No disrespect to him.
Like us here we are all a product of our experiences. Some people like Harper actively test different things to find what works best, rather than what has always worked for them without trying different things.
One negative of Craig is he is southern based, so he might not be as relevant for our northern friends.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
I guess WHAT you're killing matters as well.
Part of the issue is time. I keep using straight Gly, even though I'm wasting lots of it, because it works for me (mostly anyway, still have trees that survive). But if I switch to something else, and it doesn't work, it will be next spring before I know that it didn't work.
Lot of work and more importantly a lot of time wasted.
This past weekend I did some trees with a diluted solution I could actually spray. I was "stump" spraying some brush with it and figured I'd use up the rest of it on H&S to see if it worked. I'll say, actually spraying it is easier/faster than the squeeze bottle, and used waaay less product.
However the test is already a failure, as after four days of H&S off and on, I have no recollection of which trees got which strength.
I'd love something "cheaper", possibly faster and more effective.
Part of the issue is time. I keep using straight Gly, even though I'm wasting lots of it, because it works for me (mostly anyway, still have trees that survive). But if I switch to something else, and it doesn't work, it will be next spring before I know that it didn't work.
Lot of work and more importantly a lot of time wasted.This past weekend I did some trees with a diluted solution I could actually spray. I was "stump" spraying some brush with it and figured I'd use up the rest of it on H&S to see if it worked. I'll say, actually spraying it is easier/faster than the squeeze bottle, and used waaay less product.
However the test is already a failure, as after four days of H&S off and on, I have no recollection of which trees got which strength.
I'd love something "cheaper", possibly faster and more effective.
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Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Blue dye is available to color any sprays we might use, to let any of us know what & where we already sprayed. We wasted some time & spray before we started using dye. Many chemical vendors handle the blue dye - a little goes a long way!!I guess WHAT you're killing matters as well.
Part of the issue is time. I keep using straight Gly, even though I'm wasting lots of it, because it works for me (mostly anyway, still have trees that survive). But if I switch to something else, and it doesn't work, it will be next spring before I know that it didn't work.
This past weekend I did some trees with a diluted solution I could actually spray. I was "stump" spraying some brush with it and figured I'd use up the rest of it on H&S to see if it worked. I'll say, actually spraying it is easier/faster than the squeeze bottle, and used waaay less product.
However the test is already a failure, as after four days of H&S off and on, I have no recollection of which trees got which strength.
I'd love something "cheaper", possibly faster and more effective.
We buy generic triclopyr (the active ingredient in many brand name chemicals, Garlon - for example) because it's less $$$ to use. Our foresters told us to use triclopyr 4 + diesel for our purposes. Being in an EQIP program, we didn't have the luxury of time / arbitrary tests with other chemicals to see if they worked. We needed invasives killed by a certain date for EQIP money to be released to us. Those invasives died quickly, and haven't re-emerged. Other gents in different regions may have other plants that require different chemicals than what some of us have used. No big deal .... it takes what it takes, depending on where you live, possibly.
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