Habitat differences North vs South

[BenAllgood]

Another north/south habitat difference I've noticed is cover. In certain cases this may be different, but in general, cover is more prevalent in the south. And, the cover develops faster in the south. Now, I've hunted around some laurel thickets in New York, that were thick, but in south Louisiana, I've seen deer bedding in briar thickets that it looked like they had to eat their way into.

 

[Garrett S]

There was just a great podcast on land mgmt. differences north vs south and they arrived at its all basically the same techniques with maybe some invasive species names variance


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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brian662]

Another north/south habitat difference I've noticed is cover. In certain cases this may be different, but in general, cover is more prevalent in the south. And, the cover develops faster in the south. Now, I've hunted around some laurel thickets in New York, that were thick, but in south Louisiana, I've seen deer bedding in briar thickets that it looked like they had to eat their way into.

The growing seasons down south are nearly twice as long as they are up here. One of the main reasons that prescribed fire isn't nearly as valuable of a tool up here. The forbs die off early in the fall and don't add much nutritional value compared to woody browse.

 

[BenAllgood]

The growing seasons down south are nearly twice as long as they are up here. One of the main reasons that prescribed fire isn't nearly as valuable of a tool up here. The forbs die off early in the fall and don't add much nutritional value compared to woody browse.

Fire is a great way to increase woody browse by setting back succession. From what I've read, northern boreal forests had a history of fire. Areas of Northern Minnesota and other northern states are bringing back fire. Blueberry production by native Americans was one of the reasons for fire. It's pretty amazing to find out all the areas that had an early history of fire.

 

[Maddog66]

My growing season from last to first frost is 81 days in 3a. Time is my biggest problem in snow-free times.

In midwinter, the drifts get over 5’ deep. This very moment, I have about 2 acres of turnip bulbs under 3’ of snow.

You can have all the time in the world, but it’s tough to even get out on my land to work.

During mud season, everything but foot travel has to stop or you’ll tear the hell out of your trails.

I have wolves, bears, coyotes, Mt lions, bobcats, and Fishers. All eat venison.

But when it all comes together and a giant Northwoods buck makes a mistake, it all seems fine

 

[SwampCat]

My cousin lives in NW MO - where row crop ag fields are scattered across the country. He wonders how I ever see a deer in my area where it it largely commercial timberland - half section clearcuts you cant hardly walk through. Was listening to a podcast one day and they said in Iowa, around 8% of the land was considered deer cover. In my county, it is over 90%. Some counties higher than mine.

 

[PrairieShadow]

North vs south is pretty cut and dry for me. Info from the south I take with a big grain of salt as a lot of it just doesn't apply or work here.

The grey area for me is east vs west, even by just a few hundred miles. MN vs SD is a big difference in how we do things. I want every tree I can get, mostly cedars for that thermal cover/windbreak come winter. That just isn't the case it seems in MN.

 

[j-bird]

I think the general concepts of food, safety, water...carrying capacity and the like are all the same. What makes a healthy habitat doesn't change in my opinion. The differences are the tools and methods and timing of when and how you address these things. Hell, I see significant differences even in my own state, and sometimes even between neighboring counties.....simply because of soils, terrain types, and the natural cover and the amount of it can be very different.....and as such what is "needed" can be very different. This is why property and general area evaluation is SO important. This is why the property tours are so unique.... If this work was all the same stuff for everyone....well that would be pretty boring. What work in MN, is different than what works in FL. What works in NY, is going to be different than what works in TX, and what works in the mid-west may not work so well in any of these other extremes.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

In post #21, BenAllgood mentioned laurel thickets in N.Y. I know mountain laurel doesn't grow everywhere, but in parts of Pa. - it's the main cover for deer, bears, and grouse. For those who haven't seen it, it's gnarly, twisted, woody crap that can grow to over 12 feet tall. Laurel that tall can have WOODY bases as thick as 3" to 4" diameter. Typical height is about 4' to 6' and VERY THICK. Where branches touch the ground, it roots and grows more laurel. It seems to become an interconnected mat of tripping hazard. Walking in it - you get your boots hooked and trip every couple steps you take. In areas where it's thick, you won't even see deer if you aren't up in a tree stand. On the ground - you can't see past the end of your gun barrel. Not joking. You may not even be able to get your gun UP to try a shot!!

I don't know how far mountain laurel ranges state-to-state / north or south. It's a challenge to hunt in, though.

The only thing I can conceive of being worse to navigate is briars.

 

[Teeder]

In post #21, BenAllgood mentioned laurel thickets in N.Y. I know mountain laurel doesn't grow everywhere, but in parts of Pa. - it's the main cover for deer, bears, and grouse. For those who haven't seen it, it's gnarly, twisted, woody crap that can grow to over 12 feet tall. Laurel that tall can have WOODY bases as thick as 3" to 4" diameter. Typical height is about 4' to 6' and VERY THICK. Where branches touch the ground, it roots and grows more laurel. It seems to become an interconnected mat of tripping hazard. Walking in it - you get your boots hooked and trip every couple steps you take. In areas where it's thick, you won't even see deer if you aren't up in a tree stand. On the ground - you can't see past the end of your gun barrel. Not joking. You may not even be able to get your gun UP to try a shot!!

I don't know how far mountain laurel ranges state-to-state / north or south. It's a challenge to hunt in, though.

The only thing I can conceive of being worse to navigate is briars.

Like this?
My boy shot this bear at about 20 feet from him. The two of us were still hunting a side hill in the Sproul State Forest in Clinton Co.

 

[Native Hunter]

I'm busy breeding special seedlings of "Liquidambar styraciflua" that are more cold tolerant so that I can share them with our northern friends.

Actually, I can't complain much about our area. We sometimes get as cold as the north and as hot as the south, but it doesn't seem to last as long. Snow isn't a huge factor here. Most all NWSGs stand the winter pretty well, and I don't think deer struggle nearly as much in winter as they do in the north. I don't have any hogs, but they have been reported not too far away. Our worst problem is not food or weather but the mindset of people who shoot deer out of season and break the laws in other ways.

Our primary winter foods are honeysuckle, greenbrier and other browse that is typically desired about anywhere (maple, viburnums, dogwood, etc.). My wheat plot is so green right now that you would think it was summer. They nibble at it as they pass by, but it is not an especially big draw right now like you would think.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Like this?
My boy shot this bear at about 20 feet from him. The two of us were still hunting a side hill in the Sproul State Forest in Clinton Co.

That's the stuff. Any Pa. hunter will know what laurel is, and how thick it can get. I wish I had pictures to show where my sons and I hunt. It's high enough (8 to 10 ft.) that the deer make tunnels through it.

Congrats on the bear!! That had to be fun dragging the bear out through that laurel.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm busy breeding special seedlings of "Liquidambar styraciflua" that are more cold tolerant so that I can share them with our northern friends.

You can keep those sweetgums right down there at your place!!!! Other than fall foliage colors, they aren't much good. We have our own brand of useless trees here ..... striped maple. SM pops up wherever our forestry dept does logging. SM takes over what would otherwise be a great hardwood habitat for oaks, hickories, maples, tulip poplars, black cherry, etc. Weed tree with no timber value AT ALL.

Nice of you to think of us though, Native!!!

 

[PatinPA]

In post #21, BenAllgood mentioned laurel thickets in N.Y. I know mountain laurel doesn't grow everywhere, but in parts of Pa. - it's the main cover for deer, bears, and grouse. For those who haven't seen it, it's gnarly, twisted, woody crap that can grow to over 12 feet tall. Laurel that tall can have WOODY bases as thick as 3" to 4" diameter. Typical height is about 4' to 6' and VERY THICK. Where branches touch the ground, it roots and grows more laurel. It seems to become an interconnected mat of tripping hazard. Walking in it - you get your boots hooked and trip every couple steps you take. In areas where it's thick, you won't even see deer if you aren't up in a tree stand. On the ground - you can't see past the end of your gun barrel. Not joking. You may not even be able to get your gun UP to try a shot!!

I don't know how far mountain laurel ranges state-to-state / north or south. It's a challenge to hunt in, though.

The only thing I can conceive of being worse to navigate is briars.

My only experience bear hunting was driving in the Poconos. Mountain laurel in a swamp. Talk about a nightmare. I was the last one out of the drive and most had already left. Just hit a wall of laurel that I couldn't get through and to boot it was in about 2 feet of mud/water, so I also couldn't go under. Thought about trying to climb over but I was so damn tired at that point. Ended up having a buddy come back for me and cutting out of the drive sideways. Turns out I was only about 100 yards from the end of the drive and couldn't get there. About halfway through the drive I stopped and unloaded my gun. There was no way I was dragging one out of there.

 

[BenAllgood]

I'm busy breeding special seedlings of "Liquidambar styraciflua" that are more cold tolerant so that I can share them with our northern friends.

Actually, I can't complain much about our area. We sometimes get as cold as the north and as hot as the south, but it doesn't seem to last as long. Snow isn't a huge factor here. Most all NWSGs stand the winter pretty well, and I don't think deer struggle nearly as much in winter as they do in the north. I don't have any hogs, but they have been reported not too far away. Our worst problem is not food or weather but the mindset of people who shoot deer out of season and break the laws in other ways.

Our primary winter foods are honeysuckle, greenbrier and other browse that is typically desired about anywhere (maple, viburnums, dogwood, etc.). My wheat plot is so green right now that you would think it was summer. They nibble at it as they pass by, but it is not an especially big draw right now like you would think.

Keep those sweet gums over on your side of the county, but please keep sending over your young dispersing bucks my way.

 

[chummer]

Any idea where he sourced it from?

Sorry, I forgot where he got them. He offered me some and thought they would survive at my place which is quite a bit colder than his despite being 20 minutes away. If I remember right he thought the snow cover was protecting them from sun zero temps. They are another thing on my list that I never get to.

 

[Native Hunter]

Keep those sweet gums over on your side of the county, but please keep sending over your young dispersing bucks my way.

View attachment 48733

A two year old headed for a booner. I need to figure out a way to steal him back!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

My only experience bear hunting was driving in the Poconos. Mountain laurel in a swamp. Talk about a nightmare. I was the last one out of the drive and most had already left. Just hit a wall of laurel that I couldn't get through and to boot it was in about 2 feet of mud/water, so I also couldn't go under. Thought about trying to climb over but I was so damn tired at that point. Ended up having a buddy come back for me and cutting out of the drive sideways. Turns out I was only about 100 yards from the end of the drive and couldn't get there. About halfway through the drive I stopped and unloaded my gun. There was no way I was dragging one out of there.

Some areas are worse than others. But when you get into a real mess of it, where it seems to be tangled and twisted together - it's like being inside a steel wool pad. I've taken MANY falls through the years in it !!! Dragging animals out is torture ...... makes you wonder WHY you pulled the trigger!!

 

[Maddog66]

Up here, we have tag alders. Probably not as bad as the Mtn Laurel but making drives through it gets tough.

They all lay 90 degrees to the direction you need to travel. Can’t go over, can’t go under, can’t bull through them. About all you can do sometimes is weasel your way through with your rifle on your back.

Or a black spruce swamp that is so thick you can’t fall down, with moss so deep you sink to your hips every step. Add a foot a fresh snow and you’re soaking wet in 10 minutes at 0f.

Or a few years ago on opening weekend of ML season, we got 31” of snow. A 1/2 mile push almost killed you….even on snowshoes.

Good times!

 

[3I0]

My property is pretty close to the end of the Northern range of deer in this area and some things off the top of my head:

- A bad winter can cause high double-digit percentages of the deer population to die off due to freezing/starvation, or getting eaten by wolves.
- Very few types (and low densities) of trees that can be hinge cut with any reasonable probability of success.
- No native oak, apple/crabapple, or large maple trees here (Mountain maple - a smaller tree/shrub seems to be a primary food source for the deer here though).
- Nearly impossible to grow apple trees at my property in any kind of scale while keeping them protected from bear damage.
- I've clearcut a few acres of primarily ~20 year old aspen stands over the past couple years and a majority of the deciduous woody regen (probably 80% or more) has gone completely unbrowsed. Anywhere I cut a mature mountain maple though it gets hammered pretty good. I think the deer density is low enough that they can afford to be picky + they do not winter on my property to any appreciable extent.