Habitat differences North vs South

[Brian662]

A few of the threads going right now on this forum have gotten me thinking about the vast differences between habitat strategies in northern climates vs southern climates. For example; ERC invasive or not? Variety of switchgrass used and height? Maybe the biggest one, is to run fire through timber or not? Food plot strategies? Managing habitat for hogs?

These are all things that are important questions for the habitat manager to answer, but many of them are regional answers. I always find it best if somebody has listed in their profile or in the thread what area of the country they are in so we can all give appropriate responses based on our own experiences.

What are some habitat management philosophical differences you've seen between northern climates and Southern climates? Where is the "line" that those management differences would stop being effective in your opinion?

 

[Brian662]

Perhaps another one of the biggest requirements in the north vs the south would be thermal cover for winter time.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m just bitter every time someone brings up miscanthus because it seems to be to cold up here to grow my dream screen..

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Perhaps another one of the biggest requirements in the north vs the south would be thermal cover for winter time.

Yep. Late season food that’s still accessible with 12”+ of snow (corn) and thermal cover.

 

[Brian662]

I’m just bitter every time someone brings up miscanthus because it seems to be to cold up here to grow my dream screen..

I'm in 4b on my properties with one most likely closer to 5a and I'm going to try about $1,500 worth of miscanthus from Maple River this year. I'll post results.

 

[BenAllgood]

Summer food is a big one. In the south, between heat, drought, and longer growing seasons, plant nutrition is declined below 12% protein availability in many cases. Summer is to the south as winter is to the north. Even though there's green everywhere, that green tricks you into thinking there's plenty of quality food available. It's a critical time for deer, especially for lactating does. That's one reason the mentality of don't supplement summer food doesn't fly.

 

[SwampCat]

I am in the south - and My deer heavily use thermal cover - in the summer. My best thermal cover are stands of overstocked ash trees with fairly low growing sedges and virginia wild rye - nothing taller than a couple of feet on the ground. The dense ash tree cover provides shade and the low undergrowth does not block the breeze. I have measured with a thermometer and the temp will run 5-7 degrees cooler than most of the rest of the vertical cover. Pic below is this very habitat in the fall after the leaves have come off the trees. Deer are thick in this cover during summer. There are three of four deer bedded in this picture.



As said before - hogs. I cant grow beans, corn, milo, etc. hogs will even eat the wheat heads. Wheat, oats, or rye for fall and clover for spring and summer. Summer clover the most important of all.

I think our predators are worse here in the south, also. Our fawn:doe ratios average less than .5 fawns per doe. In many areas, we have few to no rabbits, rats, mice, voles. I have never had to screen planted trees to keep rodents from girdling them. Where I live, even beavers are gone - the alligators got them. Our turkey populations are declining because if predation, also. I dont know of anywhere in the south anymore where we have large visible flocks like many of the northern guys complain about.

In my area, brassicas are very difficult to grow because they require planting the end of august first if september to insure sufficient growth and that is usually the driest time of the year.

 

[Garrett S]

There was just a great podcast on land mgmt. differences north vs south and they arrived at its all basically the same techniques with maybe some invasive species names variance


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[FarmerDan]

My perception is there are probably great differences between north and south. Now, where you draw that dividing line is a question. As I think about it quickly, food and cover pop into my head. In my micro world cover can change quickly over a "short" period of years. Pines, mostly loblolly, come to mind. They are just another perennial crop. Those pines planted today can be harvested in 10-12 years for pulp. Typically it's more like 15 to 20 but times are changing! We go from bare ground to excellent cover in 4 or 5 years. However, it can quickly change to a barren understory just as fast. As go those pine plantations so too go the forbs and other herbaceous plants deer seek out. But, even that's different in different parts of Virginia. From east to west we go from coastal plain to the piedmont. The Blue Ridge Mountain separates east from west. The ridge & valley region is something altogether different.

Then, so far as ag-like food sources are concerned our growing season can be as long as about 210-220 days. We don't grow a lot of corn but what does get planted is in the ground by the early part of May...some as early as late March...and is harvested as early as the beginning of August. Full season soybeans come next followed by beans after the wheat harvest. It leaves gaps and surpluses. I try to use food plots to fill the gaps and provide consistent attraction - if all of that makes any sense. And winters are hardly long enough to say so - compared to what many of you guys know. And it has an impact on the breeding cycle. We have little rut-bumps but, if you watch closely fawns ae born from the beginning of spring in to late summer.

My experience with the situation north of the Mason-Dixon is north of I-80 in Pennsylvania and in the Finger Lakes region of upstate New York, a whole different animal.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

My experience with the situation north of the Mason-Dixon is north of I-80 in Pennsylvania and in the Finger Lakes region of upstate New York, a whole different animal.

My camp is about 1 hour & 45 minutes north of I-80 in Pa. North-central mountains. Muggy, humid heat is getting worse in the summers. I'm old enough to remember when we'd only get maybe 4 or 5 days all summer that hit 90 degrees. Now - it's more like 20 to 25 days of 90 or higher. Shade cover is a big thing here too. Our best summer deer bedding areas are in spruce and hemlock areas on north slopes. Those 2 tree species along with loads of birch trees shade the deer and keep the bugs to a minimum. Clover, alfalfa, chicory, and buckwheat are our main summer food plot crops.

We still get snow and cold - but not like in years past - not even close. Winter food is still a big necessity. When acorns are gone, and with much of our woods too mature for browse, winter food plots are a big draw. Winter rye grain, winter wheat, and brassicas are our best winter food crops. Logged areas are prime locations for browsing from the many younger plants & shrubs growing once sunlight could reach the ground. A tip we learned - when you log a deciduous tree, cage the stump if you have a decent deer population. Give those FREE stump sprouts a chance to get growing before deer can eat them to the ground. You'll increase your browse supply and get some shade going again for bedding ..... and thicker cover too. Uncage when sprouts are 6 to 8 ft. tall and established.

 

[FarmerDan]

My camp is about 1 hour & 45 minutes north of I-80 in Pa. North-central mountains.

Potter?

 

[Fair oak]

Deer migration comes into play in my area of the UP. I’m sure there’s areas in Northern MN and northwest WI and also the heavy LES areas of the northeast where migration has to be factored in as well.

I really don’t need winter food or late hanging fruit because without fail, my deer are gone when I get 14” of snow depth. Not just gone from my property, I won’t see a deer track within the surrounding area for miles except for a couple deer possibly near the closest towns if people are feeding. Typically mid-December the deer numbers are starting to dwindle.

When I first started shopping and researching for apple trees I kept seeing and hearing that deer habitat junkies want late dropping fruit all the way into January, February and even March. Probably true for most areas but I just don’t think it would benefit areas where deer migrate in December. Now I’ve been doing just the opposite and looking for trees that are done dropping by late November or early December.

As far as food plots, my 3 acres of brassicas/winter rye fed 10-15 deer consistently from the beginning of October until they migrated mid-December and the winter rye will be there when the come back in April.

One thing that I probably will never have the privilege of is following certain deer and bucks in particular for multiple years. My property being in migration country will be a crapshoot each and every year but I’ve come to accept it and even embrace it. My browse levels, particularly ROD is getting thick everywhere because I don’t feed deer all winter. Also, If and when buck numbers and deer numbers in general are lower than usual, I may have a population boom the following year depending on where the deer end up in April.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Deer migration comes into play in my area of the UP. I’m sure there’s areas in Northern MN and northwest WI and also the heavy LES areas of the northeast where migration has to be factored in as well.

I really don’t need winter food or late hanging fruit because without fail, my deer are gone when I get 14” of snow depth. Not just gone from my property, I won’t see a deer track within the surrounding area for miles except for a couple deer possibly near the closest towns if people are feeding. Typically mid-December the deer numbers are starting to dwindle.

When I first started shopping and researching for apple trees I kept seeing and hearing that deer habitat junkies want late dropping fruit all the way into January, February and even March. Probably true for most areas but I just don’t think it would benefit areas where deer migrate in December. Now I’ve been doing just the opposite and looking for trees that are done dropping by late November or early December.

As far as food plots, my 3 acres of brassicas/winter rye fed 10-15 deer consistently from the beginning of October until they migrated mid-December and the winter rye will be there when the come back in April.

One thing that I probably will never have the privilege of is following certain deer and bucks in particular for multiple years. My property being in migration country will be a crapshoot each and every year but I’ve come to accept it and even embrace it. My browse levels, particularly ROD is getting thick everywhere because I don’t feed deer all winter. Also, If and when buck numbers and deer numbers in general are lower than usual, I may have a population boom the following year depending on where the deer end up in April.

Interesting. Do you know where they migrate to and why it's so much better for winter? Our place in Northern MN is dead after getting a foot of snow too but we also don't have good thermal cover for the winter. Lots of young aspen browse though. I'd guess 1/3 - 1/2 of the deer stick around for winter, hard to say for sure because they just move so much less. Makes me wonder if we'd have more spend winter there if we had a lot of white cedar cover.

 

[Fair oak]

Interesting. Do you know where they migrate to and why it's so much better for winter? Our place in Northern MN is dead after getting a foot of snow too but we also don't have good thermal cover for the winter. Lots of young aspen browse though. I'd guess 1/3 - 1/2 of the deer stick around for winter, hard to say for sure because they just move so much less. Makes me wonder if we'd have more spend winter there if we had a lot of white cedar cover.

In talking with local biologists and doing my own searching and scouting, I’m pretty certain the majority of deer in my area go 8-10 miles south to some larger areas of mature pines, river systems with large cedar swamps and much steeper terrain than my extremely flat semi-open area. It’s obvious to me the thermal cover portion of their wintering complex but I’m also starting to suspect they use the steeper terrain to their advantage also. There is also a ton of logging going on on federal land around their wintering complex which is extremely beneficial obviously.
Through research, I’ve found that the MI DNR actually has plans in place that the logging companies have to follow when cutting in the known deer wintering complexes. I believe all conifers and any mast producing trees must be left alone. Not sure on exact details.

 

[H20fwler]

The ability to plant certain fruit trees is also a very big thing North vs South.
Northern guys are very limited by the variety they can plant and growing season.
And the threat of bears destroying years of tree growth.

On the same line as this thread;
Heavy agricultural areas vs Wooded forest areas.
It completely changes the types of food plots that are successful and the types of cover needed.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I'm in a VERY cold and snowy 2,000' spruce/fir swamp in zone 5A with some of the worst soils (based on a USDA soil map) in the country.

Very acidic soils, poor, clay soils...nothing grows fast at all. I am always envious of the guys who can grow beautiful apples, persimmons, chestnuts, oaks, etc. in relatively short periods of time. So I just don't bother much with planting new trees and shrubs anymore. Instead, I tend to focus on my food plots and regenerating native browse...lots of aspen regeneration. Clover goes dormant around mid to late September, long before bow season, so I need to be sure to focus on plantings like brassicas, oats, and rye that will stick around and stay green well into October and November. And like Fair Oak, the deer around here leave once the snow gets too deep and don't return until late March or April, so while I do have great winter cover, the deer typically don't use it.

The benefits of my Northern habitat...1) I have almost no invasives. It's just too cold and too acidic for many invasives to get established, 2) I have tons of spruce and fir of every age class for thermal cover, bedding, winter browse, and 3) with cool summers I never have to worry about draught typically. Even during periods of little rain, with cool mountain nights there is usually dew on the ground every summer morning...and that is generally enough to sustain crops even during dry spells.

 

[Fair oak]

I'm in a VERY cold and snowy 2,000' spruce/fir swamp in zone 5A with some of the worst soils (based on a USDA soil map) in the country.

Very acidic soils, poor, clay soils...nothing grows fast at all. I am always envious of the guys who can grow beautiful apples, persimmons, chestnuts, oaks, etc. in relatively short periods of time. So I just don't bother much with planting new trees and shrubs anymore. Instead, I tend to focus on my food plots and regenerating native browse...lots of aspen regeneration. Clover goes dormant around mid to late September, long before bow season, so I need to be sure to focus on plantings like brassicas, oats, and rye that will stick around and stay green well into October and November. And like Fair Oak, the deer around here leave once the snow gets too deep and don't return until late March or April, so while I do have great winter cover, the deer typically don't use it.

The benefits of my Northern habitat...1) I have almost no invasives. It's just too cold and too acidic for many invasives to get established, 2) I have tons of spruce and fir of every age class for thermal cover, bedding, winter browse, and 3) with cool summers I never have to worry about draught typically. Even during periods of little rain, with cool mountain nights there is usually dew on the ground every summer morning...and that is generally enough to sustain crops even during dry spells.

Agreed on the cooler nights and dew! I also have a lot of white pine, spruce and balsams but it’s not enough to keep deer around past mid December.

 

[chummer]

I’m just bitter every time someone brings up miscanthus because it seems to be to cold up here to grow my dream screen..

Chainsaw had an awesome screen of it. I know he had -30 at some point since he put it in. Been there for years now.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Potter?

NW Lycoming

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Chainsaw had an awesome screen of it. I know he had -30 at some point since he put it in. Been there for years now.

Any idea where he sourced it from?