Habitat consultants

[Telemark]

I don't think the properties I hunt can be judged from a satelite image. I tried to make such a plan, but when I went to Place A or Place B to make/do something, I often found that the teees were all wrong for what I planned, or the soil was wrong, or the area was too dry or too wet. But as a poet once said, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

I haven't even bothered to do a land tour because I don't have enough info to describe the property well enough to be helpful to people looking at satellite images on a computer screen.

My new plan is to enhance the natural food and plant a huge orchard. The orchard is mostly for me, but of course the animals can share. Otherwise I think I will improve the food and cover that exists over the next few years before I make a master plan.

I still use maps ans satellite images to help me understand the property, but for some properties, being there in person is essential.

 

[Dukslayr]

Pretty interesting to see some of the visceral replies. I am one of the poor saps who has used their service. They don’t tell you that it replaces your need to have a boots on the ground perspective. In fact, as they work through their ideas/plan, they ask that you do some pretty specific boots on the ground activities and coach you on what to look for. It’s a little bit more than them just looking at an aerial picture and giving suggestions. You have to give them a ton of information on the front end and then conduct an interview about your use, goals, experiences, tolerances, neighbors, etc. It does not replace a boots on the ground approach; you just happen to be the boots on the ground and they are “seeing it” through you.

I used the service to confirm some things I was planning (box blind locations, and some food plot ideas). They gave a bunch of suggestions, some of which I’ll take into consideration and some I’m not. It served its purpose for me and I enjoyed dealing with them. If I were going to make significant changes to my property I would pay to have an “expert” come and walk the property with me before I did so. It’s not that I can’t make decisions on my own, but I always like having another perspective to keep me in check. I also have a financial adviser (separate from me wife that is).

 

[TreeDaddy]

bumping this thread

Bought a 99$ "skeleton plan" from Bartylla website on Sunday prior to super bowl thinking "what the hey, its only 99$?"

Plan was completed on Monday with a website map,20 minute narrative(with transcript) presentation by Brooks Johnson

Brooks explained all the major considerations of contiguous cover and why improvements should be based on access and where deer bed

At 99$, this was a great "bang for the buck"(sorry for the pun") and very informative

These concepts are probably second nature to a lot of you, but this was a real "a ha!!!"moment for me

bill

 

[Tree Spud]

bumping this thread

Bought a 99$ "skeleton plan" from Bartylla website on Sunday prior to super bowl thinking "what the hey, its only 99$?"

Plan was completed on Monday with a website map,20 minute narrative(with transcript) presentation by Brooks Johnson

Brooks explained all the major considerations of contiguous cover and why improvements should be based on access and where deer bed

At 99$, this was a great "bang for the buck"(sorry for the pun") and very informative

These concepts are probably second nature to a lot of you, but this was a real "a ha!!!"moment for me

bill

I wonder how close the evaluation you got for $99 was to the $2500 you get from YouTube "experts"?

I have worked with Joe & Steve Bartylla in the past. Great hunter/land evaluators and solid guys.

 

[Kev]

For what it's worth, I did this for nearly 30 yr's working for the Illinois DNR. Being invited to a landowners property and putting boots on the ground was by far the most enjoyable part of my job. Yes, we looked at aerial photos but nothing takes the place of actually taking a walk. Once we finished, I would develop a plan explaining what to do & when to do it based on the landowners goals & objectives. If my schedule allowed I liked to go back and help implement my plan as well. Every biologist or land consultant will see a property differently, but in my opinion, any land consultant worth their salt is going to try to be on the property.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

For what it's worth, I did this for nearly 30 yr's working for the Illinois DNR. Being invited to a landowners property and putting boots on the ground was by far the most enjoyable part of my job. Yes, we looked at aerial photos but nothing takes the place of actually taking a walk. Once we finished, I would develop a plan explaining what to do & when to do it based on the landowners goals & objectives. If my schedule allowed I liked to go back and help implement my plan as well. Every biologist or land consultant will see a property differently, but in my opinion, any land consultant worth their salt is going to try to be on the property.

Agreed totally. Heck I know my property very well and I look at the aerials and realize it doesn’t come close to telling the tale of the property like being there

 

[BenAllgood]

bumping this thread

Bought a 99$ "skeleton plan" from Bartylla website on Sunday prior to super bowl thinking "what the hey, its only 99$?"

Plan was completed on Monday with a website map,20 minute narrative(with transcript) presentation by Brooks Johnson

Brooks explained all the major considerations of contiguous cover and why improvements should be based on access and where deer bed

At 99$, this was a great "bang for the buck"(sorry for the pun") and very informative

These concepts are probably second nature to a lot of you, but this was a real "a ha!!!"moment for me

bill

I like how they use LIDAR in their evaluations. LIDAR is invaluable when dealing with hills and hollers. I'm tempted to get one of those Skeleton evals done just to see what they say about my farm.
Here's my farm with LIDAR. I can pick out little benches and shelves easily.

 

[Mortenson]

Will they use the Lidar in the $99 evaluation though? I'm slightly interested, too. Figure if I could pick up just 1 good tip it might be worth it. Like what I say about going to a combine clinic whenever I get a chance... worth it to go even if it's stuff ya already know but pick up just 1 good tip.

 

[BenAllgood]

Will they use the Lidar in the $99 evaluation though? I'm slightly interested, too. Figure if I could pick up just 1 good tip it might be worth it. Like what I say about going to a combine clinic whenever I get a chance... worth it to go even if it's stuff ya already know but pick up just 1 good tip.

Here's an excerpt from their site for the $99 plan. https://food-plots-for-deer.com/product/skeleton-plans

The 10 minute video and online mapped plan of your property is developed from aerial photos, lidar, and topographic tools that define how deer use the neighborhood. Considering the entire neighborhood is an important step many hunters neglect, and it’s impact can’t be dismissed. Knowing how your property fits into a deer’s day is the real key to hunting your property successfully.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I agree with J Bird I wouldn’t post a picture of a health problem on a forum for someone to diagnose the problem. You can only cut a a tree once so make sure you get it right the first time. Boots on the ground tells the story.

I made the cut-first look-later mistake this year...there was a tree in the way for me to see my food plot from the stand...grabbed the saw, fired it up and down went a nearly-ready-to-produce white oak where there aren't too many...still kicking myself for that one...

 

[SwampCat]

I agree with the above - especially about adjacent cover types. But as important as that, is how the adjacent neighbors manage their lands. No imagery is going to show that.

I had a biologist come to my place one time. He had evaluated my property from satellite imagery. But he had given little consideration to adjacent property cover type or land use, (with the exception of one adjacent property) - which is every bit as important as what was on my property. A lot of prescription planning should only come after having some real time knowledge of your property and surrounding property. I have a 1200 cattle farm that borders one end of my property - probably 75% of it fescue pasture. The rest, mature hardwood and cedar in the draws. The biologist thought I needed to provide bedding cover adjacent to the cattle farm because his perception was the cattle farm was poor habitat and did not provide much deer habitat. To be honest, I would have agreed with him had I not owned the property for four or five years and known better. The cattle farm is covered with deer. The owner only lets three people bowhunt it, and if they kill a deer, it must be at or near 150”. It is hunted very little. Many years, there are none killed. It is covered with deer. Literally hundreds of them. It is an island of security in the middle of heavily hunted ground. Deer can do fine in the south with poor cover and fescue if they are not pressured to speak of.

Had I taken the advice of the biologist, I would have promoted acreage of wooly cover next to the cattle farm. Instead, i planted an eight acre wheat/durana food plot across the fence and it stays covered up with deer.

I welcome advice on what I need to do on my place - but I have to remember, no biologist - none - knows more about my property and what goes on around it than I do since I have spent time here.

 

[Bill]

I made the cut-first look-later mistake this year...there was a tree in the way for me to see my food plot from the stand...grabbed the saw, fired it up and down went a nearly-ready-to-produce white oak where there aren't too many...still kicking myself for that one...

It might stump sprout if you didn't treat the stump.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

It might stump sprout if you didn't treat the stump.

hoping so....i was so mad at myself when i saw those oak leaves lying on the ground....

 

[PrairieShadow]

I've watched a ton of Sturgis's stuff. He seems like a great guy and has a lot of useful info. But I really do wonder how much he would be able to help me as my terrain/land/soil is vastly different from what he deals with day to day. IE: He generally has trees around. I don't, or at least not woods type trees anyway.

 

[SwampCat]

I've watched a ton of Sturgis's stuff. He seems like a great guy and has a lot of useful info. But I really do wonder how much he would be able to help me as my terrain/land/soil is vastly different from what he deals with day to day. IE: He generally has trees around. I don't, or at least not woods type trees anyway.

I have a degree in Wildlife Management, a minor in Botany, worked in the Natural Resource Management field for 34 years with the Feds and managed my own property for 18 years, and work with others on their own property. All in the south. I would not be comfortable at all providing management recommendations for folks outside of my geographic area. I dont mind providing my experiences - but I dang sure dont have a long term knowledge of management practices in the north or out west, and have little knowledge of native plant species in other parts of the country.

I know a lot of these habitat management “experts” have a lot of widespread experience in many geographical areas that helps them provide competent recommendations for management prescriptions where ever that parcel of land may be. But their prescriptions are somewhat cookie cutter in approach. I have owned my own land for 18 years and learn new things about it all the time. I have two properties, 8 miles apart in the same river bottoms that manage nothing alike, not so much because of different habitat types, but more so because of differing hunting practices between the two areas. That type of thing is only learned through time.

I think the recommendations from these professional managers are great information, to be weighed with more local information. But no way would I go all in in their recommendations before I spent some time on my own property.

 

[yoderjac]

I have a degree in Wildlife Management, a minor in Botany, worked in the Natural Resource Management field for 34 years with the Feds and managed my own property for 18 years, and work with others on their own property. All in the south. I would not be comfortable at all providing management recommendations for folks outside of my geographic area. I dont mind providing my experiences - but I dang sure dont have a long term knowledge of management practices in the north or out west, and have little knowledge of native plant species in other parts of the country.

I know a lot of these habitat management “experts” have a lot of widespread experience in many geographical areas that helps them provide competent recommendations for management prescriptions where ever that parcel of land may be. But their prescriptions are somewhat cookie cutter in approach. I have owned my own land for 18 years and learn new things about it all the time. I have two properties, 8 miles apart in the same river bottoms that manage nothing alike, not so much because of different habitat types, but more so because of differing hunting practices between the two areas. That type of thing is only learned through time.

I think the recommendations from these professional managers are great information, to be weighed with more local information. But no way would I go all in in their recommendations before I spent some time on my own property.

Of course broad experience is usually less deep. Personally, I prefer working with a state biologist that has been working in my state and actually my region of the state for many years over one with broad geographic experience.

 

[Tree Spud]

I actually sit in a tree and watch deer behavior and learn my property ... I call it "hunting". Has worked pretty well for me so far

 

[SwampCat]

Of course broad experience is usually less deep. Personally, I prefer working with a state biologist that has been working in my state and actually my region of the state for many years over one with broad geographic experience.

I agree in general. My worst experience was with a state private lands biologist from forty miles away.

 

[Native Hunter]

I'm retiring this year, so now I'm available as a consultant. But dig deep in the pockets, because I ain't gonna work cheap. No crypto please.............

 

[yoderjac]

I agree in general. My worst experience was with a state private lands biologist from forty miles away.

Yep, our personal experiences can have a big influence. You can certainly get a bad apple at any level. I remember when we interviewed foresters. It was blatantly obviously how the first couple were trying to maximize the harvest to benefit their commissions. The third guy really got it, understood our balance between timber income and wildlife benefit, and proved to be a great resource.