Growing Chestnut Trees from Chestnuts - Transferred from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

hunt4fun2
I've often wondered the same thing. Everything I've ever read says don't let the seeds get below 32 degrees but surely in the wild that happened to them all the time in the winter and there used to be 3 to 4 billion of these trees!!! I've direct seeded chestnut seeds in my garden in the fall at roughly 1-2 inches deep and if mice didn't get them they germinated fine the next spring. We have winter temperatures that frequently get down to zero or lower so surely the soil temperature at 2 inches deep was lower than 32 degrees. I've actually got 14 planted right now in my garden each protected by 8.5-inch sections of downspout pushed 2 inches into the soil. I have no added surface protection on them and we have no snow cover, so I might have an answer to this question come spring.

Larry.....
Make sure there is good drainage.....or the nuts in the down spout tubes will rot.
I did same thing last year.....used PVC pipe, with clay soil, the ammended hole I dug for the nuts filled with water and rotted the seeds.
This year...all will be startted indoors.

I just ordered 18 more seeds from Larry. I will do one flat in 18 express cell rootmakers. I had 4 beauties that did great last year. 2 went out to the farm, 2 are still in my garden and will go out in spring.
September 15th at planting. I really want these things to make it so I pretty much went all out at planting. I will pull the window screen off in spring but I didn't want anything nibbling if they were given the opportunity. 48" welded wire, 3'x3' lumite, bag of pea gravel. I think I also used a bag of dairy cow manure/top soil to back fill the hole. I think these trees were a good 18" or so tall, started from seed in February.
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I wanted to keep this thread alive.....
Anyone pull thier nuts out of the fridge and plant them yet?.....keep responses clean (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by ROS VEGAS
I wanted to keep this thread alive.....
Anyone pull thier nuts out of the fridge and plant them yet?.....keep responses clean (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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I put some in the fridge off the "Dunstan" ebay purchase. Really just want to see if any come out looking like American or not. Some have started to sprout a taproot in the fridge...now its time to put them in rootmaker cells in the garage.

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Originally Posted by ROS VEGAS
I wanted to keep this thread alive.....
Anyone pull their nuts out of the fridge and plant them yet?.....keep responses clean (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Last year I pulled mine from the fridge to early. I will probably wait until they sprout in the fridge. The ones that sprouted in the fridge did great and lived. The ones i planted that were not sprouted didn't ever seem to make it.

Well I have join in the fun! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I ordered 9 pounds of Dunstans of a guy from eBay.

We have eaten a substantial amount. I'm embarrassed to say I had never eaten one before this. Pretty dang good when roasted!
The rest of them went into bags with potting soil/perlite mix. I poked holes in the bags and left them in there for several weeks. I made sure the mix stayed damp but not wet.

I would check on them about every week and one day I noticed they were sprouting after over a month in the fridge. I ordered some rootmaker trays but they have not come in yet. So I started planting a few of them in some regular pots mixed with half perlite/half potting soil.

When my rootmakers come in any day now... I have about a hundred sprouted nuts ready to plant.

My vegetable crisper must be too cold. I put mine in the fridge in late September. In early December I took the first set out. There was no sign of sprouting at all. I decided to plant them any way. It has been a couple weeks and there is no sign of shoots yet. I went back and looked at some of the posts in this thread from last year. It looks like folks who planted them with a half inch of tap root started still had to wait about 2 weeks before they put up a shoot. So, I'm not worried yet since mine had not started to root when I planted them.
I figure I'll let them go another week or so unless I get to impatient. If I don't see anything by then, I'll dig a couple up and see if the germinated.

 

[yoderjac]

I got the early planting bug too. Last Friday (12/14/2012) I planted 8 American chestnut seeds I had left over from 2011 (14 months in storage) and 8 American chestnut seeds from 2012 (2.5 months in storage) directly into 4-inch root maker pots. None had signs of germination. I used Miracle-Gro Potting Mixture (MGPM) with 1/2 cup dried coffee grounds and 1/2 cup of sterilized garden soil (baked at 325 degrees for 35 minutes until all moisture was driven out) mixed with every gallon of MGPM. I watered with good old Indiana acid-rain water until the MGPM was thoroughly moist. Currently I'm keeping them in a room with roughly 70-degree daytime temperature and 60-degree nighttime temperature. I'm also keeping two 75-W reveal, full-spectrum grow lights on them during the daytime. This is meant to be an experiment so I will report on its progress here.
It's been my experience that American chestnut seeds will stay viable well over a year without germinating in the refrigerator if extra moisture is not added to the sealed baggie they are kept in. If you want germination, a small amount of water to just coat them added to the baggie will initiate germination in the refrigerator but it may take several weeks. To speed up germination when you add the water just place the baggie in a location with temperatures between 50 and 55 degrees (mimicking spring-time soil temperatures). Germination should take one to two weeks. Once the radicle is 5 to 10 mm long and planted, it will take two to three weeks for the shoots to appear but you should see the seeds "lifting up" out of the potting mixture before then. I've also found that small seeds germinate faster than large seeds!

I was going to get mine rooted then put them in pots outside.Then in the spring they finish coming up.Isint that what they do?Push the root out in the fall .Go dormate then finish pushing up in the spring.If not I will start them in my cousins greenhouse.

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Originally Posted by markfix
I was going to get mine rooted then put them in pots outside.Then in the spring they finish coming up.Isint that what they do?Push the root out in the fall .Go dormate then finish pushing up in the spring.If not I will start them in my cousins greenhouse.
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Hopefully you have a rodent protection plan?

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Originally Posted by markfix
I was going to get mine rooted then put them in pots outside.Then in the spring they finish coming up.Isint that what they do?Push the root out in the fall .Go dormate then finish pushing up in the spring.If not I will start them in my cousins greenhouse.
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Some tree seeds do this like the white oak family but chestnut seeds DO NOT. They need to be stratified at between 32 to 38 degrees for roughly two to three months before they will germinate. During the stratification process you must be careful to not let the seeds dry out. In the wild the seeds would be in the top inch of soil with lots of moist leaf litter covering them. You could certainly pot them and keep them moist but do not put them in a freezing environment. A garage at 33 to 35 degrees would be perfect but remember to rodent proof your pots!

Thanks for the info.I have them in peat now in the fridge.We'll see what happens.Will rodent proof after putting out.A small screen that can be pushed up by the tree works?

I'm struggling with something similar. I plan to do my chestnuts in two stages. The first set were planted in early December (Still no shoots) in 18-cell rootmaker trays. Once they have reached transplant size, I plan to move them to roottrapper bags and plant a second set of chestnuts in the 18-cell trays. I don't have room for both sets the house at the same time.
I was thinking of moving the first set in the roottrapper bags outside, but it will likely be February.
Right now, I'm looking at a cheap Harbor Freight 6x6 greenhouse. I was thinking about setting this up on my deck and using a small oil filled heater to keep temps above freezing.
Any thoughts or alternatives?

My rootmaker trays came in so I got to work.
These Dunstans were in the Fridge a little over a month.

So I put them in their new home....

I've got three more trays to go. Also have some sawtooth acorns chillin' in the fridge right now waiting to sprout.

Wow!MY Dunstans have been in the fridge for almost three months now and still no roots hope theyre ok???They are very large seeds so hope that has something to do with it(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by NYHUNTER
Wow!MY Dunstans have been in the fridge for almost three months now and still no roots hope theyre ok???They are very large seeds so hope that has something to do with it(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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I would pull a couple, keep them moist in soil/sphagnum moss,or even plant them in trays and leave them out for a handful of days at room temp. I bet they spring to life in that warmer air ;-)

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Originally Posted by NYHUNTER
Wow!MY Dunstans have been in the fridge for almost three months now and still no roots hope theyre ok???They are very large seeds so hope that has something to do with it(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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I think it has something to do with the temperature differences between refrigerators. Mine have been in the fridge for about 2 1/2 months. I planted 72 of them early in December. The ones in the fridge are in damp peat moss in plastic bags that are slightly open. They show absolutely no signs of roots just like yours. I have been very itchy about the ones planted in early December. It has been hard for me to resist digging one up to check for roots. I planted mine with about 1/2 inch of soil on them.
Well, I took a look at them this morning. FINALLY, i see one stem starting. It is nothing more than an 1/8th inch. but it is something!
As I understand it, if you keep the temp low enough, they can last in the fridge for quite a long time without sprouting. If you are nervous, I'd follow bigeight's advice.
Thanks,
Jack

I agree....mine are in lower drawer with beers........VERY cold!
When is the earliest/latest you would pull them out and plant them in pots for germination?

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Originally Posted by ROS VEGAS
I agree....mine are in lower drawer with beers........VERY cold!
When is the earliest/latest you would pull them out and plant them in pots for germination?
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I think I read somewhere that they need at least 60 days of cold stratification. I'm hoping to start two set this year, so I want to start the first set as soon as I could. I put them all in the fridge in late Sept and started them in early Dec at just over 60 days. I now have two that have emerged. You can see pics on this thread: <http://www.qrgc-forums.org/QRGC_Foru...r.aspx#post990
So, I can now say that 60 days seems to be enough. On the long end, I have heard of guys planting seeds collected the previous year. I don't think I'll have any issues in a month or two when I transplant the first set and plant the second set.
From my perspective, colder is better (above freezing). If the ones I have in the fridge start to sprout before I'm ready to transplant the second set, I'll be in a predicament. It won't hurt me if I have to wait a bit for germination when I take them out. I just don't want to be forced to plant them on their schedule.

 

[yoderjac]

I got excited last year and pulled a bunch in January and had a great time with the whole process with the kids. Very fun :-)
It was a really long time to have the trees indoors though. I don't think the extra 1-2 months indoors is going to make any difference in the long run. This year I am going to keep them in the fridge as long as I can and try to time it where they are about 18&quot; by the time they are able to into the ground in their permanent location.
Babying them 4 months until there is no threat of frost was a long and tedious process. They all went straight from the 18 cell trays to their tubes in their permanent location. Worked out great, but the extra 2 months indoors was kinda pointless, and didnt help that much in the height department.
I hope I can hold off germination until about March this year.
They went into tubes about 24&quot; and are now 4-5' in the field, and have nice sturdy trunks IMO (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by bigeight
I got excited last year and pulled a bunch in January and had a great time with the whole process with the kids. Very fun :-)
It was a really long time to have the trees indoors though. I don't think the extra 1-2 months indoors is going to make any difference in the long run. This year I am going to keep them in the fridge as long as I can and try to time it where they are about 18&quot; by the time they are able to into the ground in their permanent location.
Babying them 4 months until there is no threat of frost was a long and tedious process. They all went straight from the 18 cell trays to their tubes in their permanent location. Worked out great, but the extra 2 months indoors was kinda pointless, and didnt help that much in the height department.
I hope I can hold off germination until about March this year.
They went into tubes about 24&quot; and are now 4-5' in the field, and have nice sturdy trunks IMO (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Keep them just above freezing and they should last till spring in the fridge...

Thanks for the replies on the last page guys,i checked them today and they are cracking open on the bottom of most and some have a thin tassle like thing hanging off of them but it is very fragile it seems is that the actual root starting or is that the beginning of one or just the bottom of the chestnut tip? i just want everything to go right,my friends call me nervous nick cause im a worry wart! im gonna pull out a few and put them in the warmer room temp in the peat moss like suggested earlier.Thanks everyone,Nick

I'm scared to even check on mine in the frig. I've they have sprouted, I have no place ready for them to go. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I didn't have any sprout in the fridge last year. It took 14-21 days out of the fridge and into a tub of damp peat at warmer temps for them to germinate.

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Originally Posted by THERAPY
I didn't have any sprout in the fridge last year. It took 14-21 days out of the fridge and into a tub of damp peat at warmer temps for them to germinate.
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This it pretty consistent with my experience. It took 17 days from planting in the potting mix at room temperature for my first ones to emerge.

Thanks for the updates/info.....
I can and hope I can hold off until late Feb/March to pull them out of the fridge.....caring for them is additional work I don't need.
I usually start Tomato/pepper seeds indoors in Feb......that takes a lot of care....I see a green house project coming down the road.....I think that will be project 87 or so on the list.

When things start to go, they really move. I showed the sprouts to my wife on the evening of the 19th. We both looked hard from multiple angles and they were the only two visible. I checked them this morning (the 21st) and there are now six of them putting up shoots! Six out of 72 is not a lot, but going from two to six in a day and a half is progress. Nothing picture worthy yet, but I can't wait to get home after this weekends hunt and see what I have!

 

[yoderjac]

I finally got some Dunstans sprouting in the fridge. Trying some in Promix and some in the Jiffy forestry pellets to compare growth. Last year I tried planting some of Larry's American nuts but had only one make it and I'm sure it was due to the poor quality potting soil I used.

I'm using Farfard 3B because that is the professional mix I could find locally for a reasonable price. There is another thread that discusses Promix, Farfard, and other professional mixes. I'm not sure which is best, but I'm happy with how things are going so far.
I checked mine again when I got home today. In just one day I have gone from having 6 of the 72 Dunstan chestnuts I planted in early December sprouted to having 27 sprouted!

Yeah I read that thread. Didn't have any place local to buy so got the Promix off Amazon.
It will be interesting following this thread and seeing how these Chestnuts grow in different mediums.

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Originally Posted by rrroae
Yeah I read that thread. Didn't have any place local to buy so got the Promix off Amazon.
It will be interesting following this thread and seeing how these Chestnuts grow in different mediums.
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Yep, one of these days we will find the best mix for chinquapins and chestnuts.

I talked to a Fafard rep, he said to use 52 mix. Both for 18 cell rootmakers and 1 gallon rootmaker pots. I will be using osmocote pro 5-6 month 17-5-11.

when you guys plant the chestnuts do you keep your lights on all the time to keep the seeds warm until you see shoots coming up out of the soil

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Originally Posted by wildfire
I talked to a Fafard rep, he said to use 52 mix. Both for 18 cell rootmakers and 1 gallon rootmaker pots. I will be using osmocote pro 5-6 month 17-5-11.
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Yes, I had hoped to use 52 but could not find it in my area and ended up with 3B.
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Originally Posted by NYHUNTER
when you guys plant the chestnuts do you keep your lights on all the time to keep the seeds warm until you see shoots coming up out of the soil
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I put my lights on a timer. I think plants benefit from a day/night cycle. I give them longer days than normal, but I don't keep the lights on 24/7.

I planted my first round of Dunstan Chestnuts on Dec 2nd in rootmaker trays. I used 4 trays for a total of 72 cells.
As if today I have 56 that have sprouted for about a 77% success rate. At some point, I'm going to dig up those that did not germinate and re-use the cells to plant more (I've got lots of seeds). The question is when do I give up?
Keep in mind that I did not allow these to sprout in the refrigerator. None of the nuts I planted showed any sign of germination at the time of planting.
So, here is my question:
If you start with nuts with no sign of germination and plant them, what kind of germination percentage are other folks seeing? Should I expect to see 85% or 90% germination or do you think 80% is a reasonable expectation?
By the way, I have planted another set of nuts one week later on Dec 9th and none of them have sprouted yet.
Thanks,
Jack

For all my acorns and chestnuts I don't plant unless it's already germinated and I have a sprout. I also remove the shells with a knife on all acorns and am considering doing the same with chestnuts. When growing indoors resources are at a premium so I can't afford to have any waste/failure. As more continue to sprout I just keep planting and they will catch up to the others. Last year I had some duds and it was just a waste, this year I dont plant unless I know it has germinated. That way you basically have 99-100% success. I'll stop planting when I'm out of space or towards the end of January or early February. I have to check my records but that's when I stopped last year I believe.

Ed,
Thanks! I'll probably do something similar next year. This is my first crack at it. I was thinking that maybe I'll wait until I get the first plant to germinate in the second group I planted a week later. This would mean about a full week or so of sprouting before giving up.
I guess, if I do dig up a chestnut and it does show signs of rooting, I can always replant it.
Thanks,
Jack

Yeah I know i have learned a lot about this stuff doing it first hand, this is my 3rd winter now messing around. While so much of it is documented on here you still just learn a lot by doing it.

Another novice question: I've been using a fan on my Dunstan Chestnut seedlings. I've been doing this for two reasons. First, I know that trees that are tightly staked when young can have issues later in life because they have not had appropriate stress when young. I'm figuring a fan will put a little stress on the seedlings as they grow. I have been repositioning the fan from time to time and turning it off every now and then to give them a break. Second, I read that good air flow is necessary for air pruning of the roots.
Do the rest of you use a fan on your seedlings? Are there down sides to using a fan? I do notice that I'm watering more often than I thought I would.
I'm wondering if a fan drys out the foliage. Should I occasionally spray the foliage with water?
Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
Thanks,
Jack

I run the fan at intermittent times...much like Mother Nature.
I have no clue about the air pruning, but you will probably have to water more often due to the increased humidity removal of the fan.
Ps...Do I remember correctly that the fly strips work on the gnats?

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Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
I run the fan at intermittent times...much like Mother Nature.
I have no clue about the air pruning, but you will probably have to water more often due to the increased humidity removal of the fan.
Ps...Do I remember correctly that the fly strips work on the gnats?
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Yes, I think you are right. Air pruning is what the rootmaker system does. The trays have holes in the sides and bottom. The ideas is that when the roots make contact with air, the desiccate instead of hitting the side of the container and wrapping or j-hooking. Instead the end of the root stops growing forcing the root to branch. I know they want to see some air flow below the 18-cell trays. That is one reason I was using a fan. I'm glad to see others are doing the same.
I'm going to do some thinking about that humidity removal issue.

I just recieved some seeds &amp; the instructions said to soak in water for 24 hours before 90 days to stratify.

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Originally Posted by bwool
I just recieved some seeds &amp; the instructions said to soak in water for 24 hours before 90 days to stratify.
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If theyve been kept in a refrigerator for 45-60 days prior to shipping to you then you are probably ok. if not then you will need to put them in the refrigerator to stratify them. Soaking in water for 24 hours does not stratify them.

 

[yoderjac]

So is there any need to soak them in water?

I had a bunch in the crisper in damp sphagnum moss, since October. I pulled 2 out for my girls to start &quot;their&quot; trees on Friday, came back on Sunday from a weekend of doe hunting and both have a 1/2&quot; taproot.
Love growing the chestnuts, its a great project for the kids because they grow almost daily. Every day they are excited to check their trees (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by bwool
So is there any need to soak them in water?
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I dont think there is any need. I didnt last year.
I had about 50 that never came to life after being planted after 2 months in the fridge. Those ones got a 24 hour soak then replanted and came to life after about a week.

Soaking them in water before planting probably speeds germination. Here is what I plan to do next time:
1) Wash seeds in a 10% bleach solution as a prophylactic against mold.
2) Cold stratify them for at least 60 days in plastic bags with damp peat moss.
3) Soak them before planting.
4) Plant them much shallower than I did this year. I plan to simply press them into the pro mix and then cover them lightly.
This year I lost a few to mold. I have very uneven germination. Some plants have barely broken the soil and others are well over 10&quot; tall.
Many of my larger plants are spindly. I think my lights were too far from the plants when I started. I will start with my lights lower next time.
I will use rootmaker 18-cell express trays rather than the regular trays. This will allow me to group my plants by size and adjust light height accordingly for each group.
All lessons learned so far. I will also start be using my homebrew indoor greenhouse for better humidity control. Details on that on on this thread: <http://www.qrgc-forums.org/QRGC_Foru....aspx#post1004

 

[yoderjac]

I checked mine just now and i have my first sprout breaking through the soil,they have been in 18 cell rootmakers for 11 days with heat mats and agrosun flourescent bulbs close to the soil.I have removed several seeds that were molded or rotted and didnt send out a root,these were just barely cracked at the tip where the root was going to come through the tip when i planted them most are surviving with good root growth but as others have stated before it would probably be best to plant the seeds when they get a decent root popping out of the shell and show the hook of which direction they are gonna grow to also

As you can see from another thread, I'm now using an indoor greenhouse for my Dunstan Chestnuts. I've got a heater and humidifier in it. I did a bunch of google queries and read a number of scientific papers, but I have not found a direct answer to the question:
- What temperature and relative humidity should I target for my seedlings?
Based on the reading I've done, and I'm extrapolating from articles focused on related topics, my best guess is:
Temp: 78 - 86 degrees
RH: 70 - 80 percent
I'm not sure if my humidifier can sustain that level or not. So far, the highest RH I've been able to achieve is in the 60% range and that is at temps of about 70 degrees. As temperature rises, RH goes down, so I may not be able to achieve the targets even if I knew for sure what they were. I know everything will be fine either way since most folks are doing this without temp and RH control. I just figure that I'd try to maximize what I can.
Does anyone have a direct answer to this question or any insight to impart?
Thanks,
Jack

I had hoped some of the smart tree propagators on the forum would have responded with hands-on advise, but I did a bunch more reading and I thought I'd pass on what I've found so far.
I came up with the temperature and relative humidity ranges in the above post from reading some technical research articles specifically related to growing chestnut seedlings in greenhouses. These articles were focused on other things, but they reported the temperature and humidity levels that were measured during the experiment periods. Since they were trying to improve seedling development, I'm assuming they were trying to keep the temp and humidity at good levels since they were not variables being measured.
Today, I found some more general information on greenhouse relative humidity levels. This post provides a pretty good overview: <http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/792801/
The links in the article provide some more technical explanation for those interested in details.
The Bottom Line:
&quot;Over most temperature ranges, a GH humidity of 50-85% is generally safe.&quot;
This pretty much supports what I deduced from the chestnut specific articles.
My latest gadgets and setup:
I purchased two wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer/hygrometer devices. They are inexpensive consumer devices that have an indoor display with incorporated sensors and outdoor remote sensors. They are a rudimentary form of a weather station. Instead of placing the remote sensors outside, I placed one in my greenhouse and the other in my basement just outside the greenhouse.
Eventually, I plan to construct a smaller table top greenhouse for starting the next batch of seed once I transplant this batch. So, I plan to eventually use the second sensor there, but for now, I can see just how effective my greenhouse is.
Right now I have:
Inside: 71 degrees and 60% RH.
Outside: 59 degrees and 43% RH.
The greenhouse has a fairly large humidifier in it. I have the humidistat on it set at 70% but the best it would do with temps in the low to mid 70s was in the mid 50% range. I purchased a very small room humidifier for the table top starter greenhouse. Until I need it for that, I added it to the larger greenhouse. I am now holding 60% which is well in the safe range.
We use a setback thermostat in the house, so the heater in the greenhouse kicks on and off to compensate. The temperature seems to be varying from a low of about 70 at night to a high of about 74 in the day. I may turn it up slightly if I can maintain this humidity level for a few days.
Thanks,
Jack

For those of you who have done this before, what height and diameter are your Dunstans when you transplant them from the 18 cell trays to the 5&quot; roottrapper bags?
Folks have said that you transplant them at 12 - 16 weeks. I planed mine on 5 weeks ago on Dec 2nd. It seemed like forever for them to germinate and germination was very uneven. I have some plants that are just getting started and others that are well over a foot tall. If they keep growing at this rate, the will be awfully tall when I transplant.
I'm not sure if my plants are just unusually leggy because of uneven germination and light height or if they are just growing unusually fast.
Thanks,
Jack

I am having about the same results but my largest is only 6&quot; yet but i have 32 out of 36 growing already im obsessed with them tho i check them almost every hour when im home! I have very uneven heights also.I was also wondering what the easiest way to get them out of the 18 cells,is it ok if the soil falls of the roots a bit when transplanting ? I am waiting for 2 more flats to come in the mail yo start 18 more chestnuts and 18 more saul's oak gonna have to figure something out with the light situation here!

Not an expert but, think of the uneven growth as a good thing. In nature it would best best to have uneven germination in case of frosts or snow. That way at least some may be protected and live on. Apple blossoms are similar in nature where it pays to have different blossoming times.
From my experience the past 3 years, they will eventually even out. I can't comment on the transfer to the larger root makers but, I'd say at least another month to get the benefit of the root growth.

I use a camera to document all of my projects. It makes it easier to remember what happens when.
Received germinated seeds from Larry (Ebay) 2/19/2012
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Had a nice little seedling growing in a rootmaker express cell by 3/19/2012
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Transplanted to 1 gallon rootmaker pots 4/17/2012
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Eventually I moved them out to my garden, inside a chicken wire cage that was covered with spruce trees, I wanted to keep them protected from squirrels and out of direct sunlight. They were removed from the cage to be photographed, 5/24/2012
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July 7 - Full Sun at this point.
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July 20
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8/15/2012 - 5 gallon bucket used for size reference.
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Planted on the farm 9/15/2012. Planted with Top Soil / Dairy Cow Manure Mix / watersorb in the hole. Lumite, Pea Gravel, 48&quot; welded wire cage, window screen to prevent girdling. Will probably upgrade to 6' concrete mesh once these things get a bit bigger.
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[yoderjac]

Ed,
Thanks for the reply. Do you think Dunstans are different from American in the growth respect. From your pictures and dates, it looks like you transplanted about 8-9 weeks after planting and your plants were about 10&quot; tall judging from the milk jug.
I'm only about 5 weeks from planting and I have some plants at 15&quot;. I think your plant leaves are a big larger and the stem diameters looks pretty close. In the week since I have been using controlled temperature and humidity, my plants have really taken off.
The rootmaker site says it is better to transplant too early rather than wait too long.
How were your root balls when you transplanted? Were they filling the cells or did they still have some room to grow? I'm worried that I may have to transplant soon and 5 weeks is less than 1/2 the 12-16 weeks that rootmaker talks about.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Ed,
Thanks for the reply. Do you think Dunstans are different from American in the growth respect. From your pictures and dates, it looks like you transplanted about 8-9 weeks after planting and your plants were about 10&quot; tall judging from the milk jug.
I'm only about 5 weeks from planting and I have some plants at 15&quot;. I think your plant leaves are a big larger and the stem diameters looks pretty close. In the week since I have been using controlled temperature and humidity, my plants have really taken off.
The rootmaker site says it is better to transplant too early rather than wait too long.
How were your root balls when you transplanted? Were they filling the cells or did they still have some room to grow? I'm worried that I may have to transplant soon and 5 weeks is less than 1/2 the 12-16 weeks that rootmaker talks about.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
The Americans are probably different than the Dunstans. Potentially more vigorous. I mean the nut size alone is much different, the Dunstans are significantly larger. I would say if your trees are already 15&quot; I would definitely transplant them. I don't exactly recall how or why I decided to transplant when I did, the information could be in this thread but I don't have time to scroll back through 100 pages. But, between all the growing of acorns and chestnuts, if your seedlings are 15&quot; tall I would move them if they were mine. 10-12&quot; max in the little containers is about what I feel comfortable with. At least start moving some. Pull them up and examine the roots (take pics!). I don't recall what the roots looked like on mine as I only had 4 that survived (a bunch didn't germinate due to my error) so I was very cautious to do the transplants very quickly without disturbing much of anything. Same thing when I planted on the farm. If you wait much longer some of those big ones could maybe get stunted I dont know but that seems right what it says on the rootmaker site, better to do it sooner than later. Go for it and let us know how it goes. Pictures are great and helpful for all of us!

Jack,
Actually I looked back and it appears that even when some of them had reached 6-8&quot; I was moving them to bigger pots. For whatever reason it doesn't seem like i have many pictures of the root systems. I might have them on my computer at home, I was just browsing my gallery on picasa to pull these up.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Ed,
Thanks. I did go back and re-read this entire thread last night. Looks like I'll be transplanting them this week! I appreciate your help!
Jack

Ed,
I think you made the right call. A few of them were 18&quot; tall and absolutely needed to be transplanted. Some had a bit of mix fall off but the rootmaker site talks about that is says that is preferred to waiting too long.
Here is a pic of the root ball on one of the smaller ones I transplanted:

I ended up transplanting about 27 of them. I had to tug on them multiple times to get them to come out of the cells. I could hear roots popping on most of them, so I presume the roots had grown through the holes before desiccating.
Here are a couple pictures from different angles after I returned them to the greenhouse but before I lowered the lights:

Thanks,
Jack

Dang it! I had hoped to wait till late February to take my Dunstans out and plant them into the RM trays, but they have a mind of their own(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I have 154 in damp sphagnum moss and another 200+ in a dry bag in the crisper. Checked them today and 61 of the ones in the damp sphagnum moss had started to germinate. So time to get them in the trays and the work begins .
Going to keep checking on the rest and let them germinate on their own in the fridge. Last year I pulled them all at once and stressed out about when they were EACH going to come to life. They are not going into soil this year until I see taproot (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Anyone else going to try direct seeding chestnuts this spring? I'm going to, via the process I believe was linked to somewhere in these 50+ pages. ie: using aluminum flashing tubes stuck into the soil a couple inches....

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by bigeight
...Last year I pulled them all at once and stressed out about when they were EACH going to come to life. They are not going into soil this year until I see taproot (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
I think you have a year of experience on me, but I did the exact same thing...One would think I'd learn from the lessons of others (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I'm running out of space! That is one reason I started the culling thread.
As you can see from my documentation thread, I ended up transplanting a bunch of them at 5 weeks. In hind sight many could have waited a bit longer, but there were at least a few that needed it.
So, I too would like to delay the second batch as long as I can....

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Redonthehead
Anyone else going to try direct seeding chestnuts this spring? I'm going to, via the process I believe was linked to somewhere in these 50+ pages. ie: using aluminum flashing tubes stuck into the soil a couple inches....
==================================
I plan to do about 50 this year, and give another 30-40 to friends to try on their properties.

Just another reminder on an easy mistake to make is NOT to water your seedlings with softened water. I spent 3 months torturing my poor seedlings last year. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Lots of die back and stump sprouting ...

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by bigeight
Just another reminder on an easy mistake to make is NOT to water your seedlings with softened water. I spent 3 months torturing my poor seedlings last year. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Lots of die back and stump sprouting ...
==================================
Can you expand on this a bit? I'm using tap water. Our water is not particularly hard and we don't have a water softener. I thought I read somewhere that the salts associated with softened water can be an issue for plants. I'd like to learn more.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Can you expand on this a bit? I'm using tap water. Our water is not particularly hard and we don't have a water softener. I thought I read somewhere that the salts associated with softened water can be an issue for plants. I'd like to learn more.
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
We have a well, and a water softner. Last year was our first year in our new house and the first time I ever owned a water softner, didn't even cross my mind that it would cause a problem. Stunted/killed most of my trees.
When I got the survivors out side I started watering from the hose which doesnt go through our softner. The trees took right off and did great.
Not sure if a water test is needed, but anything added would probably not be good. If a person had the foresight, captured rain water would probably be ideal (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Also if you put walleye minnows in a cooler to keep over night with an airator the soft water will kill 4 dozen in under 2 hours (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Is it to late to get my hands on some chestnuts to plant. If so where are you guys getting them. I know a lot of you guys are getting an early start on them. Would love to start growing them and maybe some acorns.
Thanks for any info you pass along. I just started to read the tread and its long.

I got my American Chestnuts from indianasam44.
My is still in the fridge waiting for spring.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by bigeight
We have a well, and a water softner. Last year was our first year in our new house and the first time I ever owned a water softner, didn't even cross my mind that it would cause a problem. Stunted/killed most of my trees.
When I got the survivors out side I started watering from the hose which doesnt go through our softner. The trees took right off and did great.
Not sure if a water test is needed, but anything added would probably not be good. If a person had the foresight, captured rain water would probably be ideal (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Also if you put walleye minnows in a cooler to keep over night with an airator the soft water will kill 4 dozen in under 2 hours (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
That makes more sense. I thought you were suggesting we use softened water. I misunderstood the original post.
Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
Is it to late to get my hands on some chestnuts to plant. If so where are you guys getting them. I know a lot of you guys are getting an early start on them. Would love to start growing them and maybe some acorns.
Thanks for any info you pass along. I just started to read the tread and its long.
==================================
I bought my Dunstan chestnuts fresh in Sept from a guy on ebay with the id: rfarmer20k9
He was recommended by others on this forum who have bought from him. I will say the nuts were fresh and very few have not proven viable.
It takes 60 to 90 days of cold stratification for chestnuts to germinate. If you can find some that have been cold stored you can plan them now. If not, you'll need to cold stratify them yourself and won't be able to plant until sometime in March.
Thanks,
Jack

I have some ordered so I will see how they go. I have 2 pounds coming so I will be doing more reading.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Can you expand on this a bit? I'm using tap water. Our water is not particularly hard and we don't have a water softener. I thought I read somewhere that the salts associated with softened water can be an issue for plants. I'd like to learn more.
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
A water softener replaces ions like Fe and Ca that are present in hard water with Na making it &quot;soft&quot;. The sodium comes from the salt NaCl that you put in the softener. Large concentrations of sodium can be deadly to most plants. That's why it's very difficult to use seawater in irrigation if you have water retaining soils. Another issue that I've pointed out here on the forum is water pH which is associated with the acidity of the water. Chestnut trees will not grow well, if at all, if the soil pH goes above 7.0 (neutral). If you use water that has a pH above 7.0 eventually the pH of the potting soil will rise above 7.0 and your seedlings will suffer. Most potting soils are buffered to a pH of around 6.0 so it may take awhile depending upon how much watering you do. To avoid this problem I recommend using rain water which is almost always acidic (especially if you are down wind of Indiana!) and then you don't have to worry!

I tested the ph of rain water here and it was over 7. Fyi.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
I tested the ph of rain water here and it was over 7. Fyi.
==================================
How did you make your measurement? The only reason I'm asking is that if you google &quot;rainwater pH&quot; you'll find hundreds of references indicating that rainwater pH is normally well below 6.0 even in unpolluted areas of our country. The presence of CO2 in the atmosphere alone is enough to ensure acidic rainwater. I would say that your measurement is highly anomalous and suggests that further investigation is warranted. Being downwind of a large animal operation with lots of field-spread manure releasing ammonia into the atmosphere would be an example of an explanation.

We had an inground pool, each time it rained the ph would go down, needing to add ph raise.

I use the same ph meter that I use for mri chillers, process boilers, and water treatment testing.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by indianasam44
A water softener replaces ions like Fe and Ca that are present in hard water with Na making it &quot;soft&quot;. The sodium comes from the salt NaCl that you put in the softener. Large concentrations of sodium can be deadly to most plants. That's why it's very difficult to use seawater in irrigation if you have water retaining soils. Another issue that I've pointed out here on the forum is water pH which is associated with the acidity of the water. Chestnut trees will not grow well, if at all, if the soil pH goes above 7.0 (neutral). If you use water that has a pH above 7.0 eventually the pH of the potting soil will rise above 7.0 and your seedlings will suffer. Most potting soils are buffered to a pH of around 6.0 so it may take awhile depending upon how much watering you do. To avoid this problem I recommend using rain water which is almost always acidic (especially if you are down wind of Indiana!) and then you don't have to worry!
==================================
This was my understanding as well. I was just confused by his post. I thought he was advocating using softened water. I just misread or misinterpreted his post.

 

[yoderjac]

I don't wish to belabor the point. If you're interested in more information about rainfall pH please check the following website: <www.epa.gov/acidrain/measure/index.html

We are expecting rain in the near future...will do a pic by pic procedure of zero-ing out the meter and then letting it test some rain water.
I am not arguing the point either...but meteorologists have been wrong before...once...ok, maybe twice...

ph test to zero out the meter at 7.0

Here is the verification that it will read an acid solution...

and the rain water test in an unused plastic cup....

This was the first test of rain water...just to show it does read higher than 7.0...I also did the 10.0 test kit and it was right on the money...

You had 1.3 pH difference between 2 rainfalls?

Questionable sample on the 8.2 cup...I retrieved that from a dirty bucket.
I have another cup that was virgin that has over 100ml of rain in it and I will test it in the am to see what it reads.
Pretty much isn't a very acid rain at this point.

Any of y'all ever tried to grow chestnuts in perlite? I know it works great with fig cuttings because it doesn't get waterlogged.

 

[yoderjac]

I transplanted some of my larger Dunstans from 18-cell trays to 5&quot; bags back on January 8th. It was early for some of them but all are doing well. One note of interest, the vertical growth has slowed substantially. Leaves are getting larger and stem diameter seems to be increasing.
I don't know if this is a result of transplanting them, a difference between the greenhouses I'm using, or just coincidence. Perhaps they slow vertical growth at this development stage. At any rate, I'm happy, because I may not have enough light height to accommodate them until the threat of frost has passed if they kept growing at the initial rate.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by THE, LLC
Any of y'all ever tried to grow chestnuts in perlite? I know it works great with fig cuttings because it doesn't get waterlogged.
==================================
I will ask again.

I haven't tried straight perlite. I use coconut husk added to my soil as suggested by grapevine. Works great(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I started using a 50/50 mix of perlite/spangham peat on my dunstan seeds and its working great. 90%+ have good shoots coming up....and some are over a foot tall in about a month.
I do have one plant that got planted with about 75% perlite and it is really big. That's a good sign.
Never tried straight perlite.

What's the fertilizer recommendation for straight perlite. Micros, sulfur, lime, etc?
I know growing them in pea gravel with an irrigation system works to root prune also and makes for summer permanent planting as well.

I'm not sure if you can adapt this but here is rootmaker's general recipe:
<i>RootMaker® propagation containers can be filled with a mix of peat and perlite 40/60 or peat, perlite, and vermiculite 40/40/20, or pine bark, peat, and perlite at 50/30/20 by volume. Add 1.0 pound of Micromax® micronutrients, 3 pounds of dolomite, and 6 pounds of Osmocote® 18-6-12 (no substitutes) per cubic yard of mix.</i>
I have another question for guys who have done this before. I plan to keep my first batch of chestnuts through the summer eventually moving them to 1 gal Rootmaker containers. I have not decided whether to plant them in the fall or wait until the following spring. The only reason I would wait is because of not having enough time around the fall hunting season.
If I wait, is there any thing special I should do over the winter. Can I just leave them outside and let them go dormant? Is there anything special I need to do because they are in RM containers if they are left outside over the winter?

Ok got my chestnuts and none have sprouted yet should I wash them in a light bleach bath then bag them in the moss?
What to plant some soon in rootmaker pots and them do some direct seeding later.
I was going to wait for them to sprout in the fridge before planting, do you think that is the best practice?
Can't wait to get these things but waiting the the chestnuts to talk to me on when they are ready(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Thanks for the help. I have read through the first 30 pages still have some to go.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
Ok got my chestnuts and none have sprouted yet should I wash them in a light bleach bath then bag them in the moss?
What to plant some soon in rootmaker pots and them do some direct seeding later.
I was going to wait for them to sprout in the fridge before planting, do you think that is the best practice?
Can't wait to get these things but waiting the the chestnuts to talk to me on when they are ready(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Thanks for the help. I have read through the first 30 pages still have some to go.
==================================
Put em' in damp sphagnum moss in the crisper. The bleach bath probably isn't necessary. Leave them in there for at least 60 days, then pull a couple out and plant them, the room temp should bring them to life in less than a week. If they sprout, pull the rest, if not put them back in for more stratification.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
Ok got my chestnuts and none have sprouted yet should I wash them in a light bleach bath then bag them in the moss?
What to plant some soon in rootmaker pots and them do some direct seeding later.
I was going to wait for them to sprout in the fridge before planting, do you think that is the best practice?
Can't wait to get these things but waiting the the chestnuts to talk to me on when they are ready(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Thanks for the help. I have read through the first 30 pages still have some to go.
==================================
I did not wash mine in bleach when I got them. I just put them in damp peat in bags like Bigeight said. I planted the first batch in early Dec. I found some duds and when I dug them up they had some kind of mold on them. I then checked the rest of the nuts in the fridge and found some of them had mold starting on them.
I then pulled them all from the fridge and did the light bleach solution wash before returning them to the fridge. I have been checking them off and on since and have not seen the mold return.
I believe I will wash mine in the light bleach solution next year before I put them in the fridge. It certainly won't hurt them and I figure if I can head off a problem all the better. I got mine off ebay and had a very good germination rate with the first batch, but I have no idea what they were exposed to before I received them.
This is not specific to chestnuts, but it is one of the resources I've found very handy for using rootmakers with my trees: <http://www.rootmaker.com/docs/GrowingTreeSeedlings.pdf
Others have more experience than I do but this is one of my lessons learned from my first try.
Thanks,
Jack

Thanks guys for the replies.

I put my 10 lbs of seeds from eBay (rfarmer20k9) in damp peat/ziplocs/pinholes into the bottom of two different refrigerators back in September. The ones at home look OK, but some of the ones in the fridge at camp are sprouting. Perhaps not cold enough up there, I brought them back home.
Too early to try direct seeding as reportedly they will die if hit with a hard freeze. Hopefully I can retard their growth for another month.

Guys that are dealing/worried about mold: are you using peat moss, or sphagnum moss?
Earlier in this thread, I think it was grapevine that suggested to use sphagnum moss to germinate the nuts in the fridge. I believe the sphagnum has a natural mold deterant??
Couldn't find it reading back through the thread to quote, but I have had mine in. Damp spaghnum moss for 3 + months and absolutely no signs of mold 2 yrs in a row.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by bigeight
Guys that are dealing/worried about mold: are you using peat moss, or sphagnum moss?
Earlier in this thread, I think it was grapevine that suggested to use sphagnum moss to germinate the nuts in the fridge. I believe the sphagnum has a natural mold deterant??
Couldn't find it reading back through the thread to quote, but I have had mine in. Damp spaghnum moss for 3 + months and absolutely no signs of mold 2 yrs in a row.
==================================
Yes, I'm using damp Sphagnum peat moss. My mold issues were not real bad, but I did have them. I do recall someone suggested using the leafy version. I only had the fine version available. Do you think that could be the issue?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Yes, I'm using damp Sphagnum peat moss. My mold issues were not real bad, but I did have them. I do recall someone suggested using the leafy version. I only had the fine version available. Do you think that could be the issue?
==================================
I've only used the leafy version with no issues. Not sure if there is a difference or not?

I have a few Dunstan seeds that would sprout and start a shoot and then brown off. Then it would do another shoot and the same thing would happen.
These were grown in a &quot;homemade root maker&quot; 6&quot; pot (holes drilled in the bottom and sides).
I knew they were growing a good root system but I wanted to see it. So I pulled one today....not too bad for a month's growth.

What do you guys think, I gave them all a light bleach bath then bagged them like this. I also just placed some with a flat piece on top and bottom of the chestnuts. They are now in the fridge again and I was going to wait tell some sprout to plant of when I'm completely set up and ready to roll. Looking for some feed back. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I also bagged my floaters that I had to see if any will sprout or am I just wasting space?

Lookin' good Mich. The hardest part is the next 60 day wait (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Going to order a potting mix what should I go with. A saw promix in the thread but looking of a bit more feed back on what other like.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
Going to order a potting mix what should I go with. A saw promix in the thread but looking of a bit more feed back on what other like.
==================================
I just went through this process. I believe Promix and Farfard 52 are equivalent mixes. There is also a metromix equivalent. Rootmaker has a recipe if you want to mix your own.
For me it was a balance between cost and performance. I can't see paying for shipping on something like this. It was hard to find anything locally at first. Few local places talk about this stuff on-line. I had to use the old fashion telephone to actually find stuff. Look for nurseries not big box to carry it.
I found Promix bx locally but the cost was outrageous. I could not find Farfard 52 or the metromix equivalents locally. I found a nursery near my farm that carried Farfard. They didn't carry 52 but did have 3B on hand and at a reasonable price. It is performing well for me so far.
Keep in mind that chestnuts are sensitive to wet feet. These mixes when used with rootmakers don't retain much water. That means there is little fear of overwatering. They are also coarse and trap a lot of air space. This provides space for all that root branching in the rootmakers.
I'm sure you can grow them successfully in plain old potting soil if you know what you are doing (since nature grows them in even worse conditions), but you won't likely get as much development and you may loose more if you are not careful with water.
That is pretty much what I've learned on the subject.

I went with the 50/50 mix pro mix/coco tek and added osmocote to that.
The places you need to be looking for are not nurseries, etc. They are the local pot head stores. GrowMarts and indoor Gardner's, stuff like that. You will learn a LOT from those guys, and they will have everything you need (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
If you are going to do this on an annual basis, one block of promix, and a brick of coco-tek will allow you to do about 150-200 nuts/year for about 3 yrs, with the lot of pro mix left over, so you will need another brick of coco-tek for yr 3/4.

 

[yoderjac]

Big8 has a lot more experience here than I do, so weight the responses accordingly. I'm using Farfard 3B as I said in the early post, a compromise, not the optimum solution. I bought 199 seeds and planned to plant them in two batches. I planted about 80 seeds in the first batch and have transplanted about 32 of them into 5&quot; bags. I bought 3 bags of 3B and I've use all of the first bag and about 3/4 of the second bag so far.
I think the amount of mix you use will depend whether you are planning on transplanting from 18-cell trays to larger rootmakers and caring for the plants through the summer for a fall plant or if you are transplanting them directly from the 18-cell trays directly to their final location.

I went to a local pot head store lol and they said they can order anything I need. He said he has little experience growing trees. I think im going to get two 18 cell root maker pots. Then I will see about the pro mix. Is there anything that I can get to give that mix a bit better drainage so its not as easy to over water.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
I went to a local pot head store lol and they said they can order anything I need. He said he has little experience growing trees. I think im going to get two 18 cell root maker pots. Then I will see about the pro mix. Is there anything that I can get to give that mix a bit better drainage so its not as easy to over water.
==================================
You are going to have a hard time over-watering using the rootmaker 18-cell trays with promix. That stuff is very well drained and with the holes in the cell most of the water just runs out the bottom.
If you have not purchased you 18-cell trays yet, I would suggest ordering the Express trays with removable cells not the regular 18-cell trays. I ended up cutting my regular 18-cell trays into individual cells.
Perhaps if I had planted the flats with newspaper and transplanted only seeds that had germinated to the cells, I may have been better off. I planted the nuts directly in the cells. Both germination time and vigor was quite variable between plant. I now have plants that are two feet tall (transplanted to bags) and still have some plants that are only a few inches.
I had to adjust my lights for the tallest plants which made any later germinating plants very leggy reaching for the light. With the 18-cell express trays, you can reorganize your plants. I'm just using 4' utility light fixtures that are suspended. You can organize your plants so the tall ones are on one end of the tray and the small ones on the other. You can then adjust your lights on an angle to minimize distance to the plants.
One final note if you have not done this before. Be sure to lay your nuts flat with the pointy end toward the center of the cell. When the nuts germinate both the root and stem come from this pointy end. The root will react to gravity and the stem to light one growing up and one growing down. If you plant the nuts with the pointy end up or down either the stem or root will need to do a 180 degree uturn which is not good.
One of the mistakes I made with the first batch was centering the nut in the cell. I now realize that it would be better to center the point of the nut in the cell since that is where the root comes from.
Good Luck,
Jack

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
I went to a local pot head store lol and they said they can order anything I need. He said he has little experience growing trees. I think im going to get two 18 cell root maker pots. Then I will see about the pro mix. Is there anything that I can get to give that mix a bit better drainage so its not as easy to over water.
==================================
Add coco-tek to the mix. It helps a lot, and dont forget to add some osmocote for a slow release Fertalizer to the mix as well.
The coco-tek comes in a brick. You break it up and squeeze it in your hands and it turns ot a flakey dust/powder.

The number of Dunstan nuts that have germinated and starting to sprout. Placed some in simple tray and placed in window sill. 6/15 there so far. 1 discarded due to mold. The others were just kept in plastic bags (in peat moss) in garage. Checked all of them and placed germinated ones into small pots.

Still waiting for my American chestnuts from Larry to germinate. Can't wait for these things to pop.

I thought I'd show a picture of four American chestnut seedlings that I've started from the seeds I collected this past fall. They're from the experiment I outlined in an earlier post on this thread. I'll give more details when I have more time. These are 8 to 13 days old (from sprout appearance).

I'm reporting here the results of a experiment I started on Dec. 14 of last year and outlined on page 45 of this thread. On that date I direct seeded 8 Fall 2011 American chestnut seeds (old) and 8 Fall 2012 seeds (new) in 4-in RM pots. They were kept in a 70-degree room. Four old and three new ultimately germinated. The remaining either molded or turned black and didn't germinate (not good percentages). The time to sprout appearance for the old: 14, 14, 29, 34 days; and for the new: 23, 24, 29 days. The average was 24 days and varied 10 days on either side.
I replanted with one germinated new seed (root radicle 1-mm long) on Jan. 3 and it's sprout appeared in 8 days. I replanted with four germinated old seeds (radicles 1- to 4-mm long) on Jan. 11. One sprout appeared in 9 days, two seeds have &quot;lifted&quot; and the other has done nothing. I also replanted with four new ungerminated seeds on Jan. 10 but nothing has happened with them yet.
A picture of the seedlings from the four new seeds is shown above.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by indianasam44
A picture of the seedlings from the four new seeds is shown above.
==================================
What is your watering schedule at 70 degree temps?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by letemgrow
What is your watering schedule at 70 degree temps?
==================================
When the surface of the potting soil appears dry I apply just enough (captured-rain) water until there are a few drips out of the bottom of the pots, usually just a layer on the surface before it soaks in. For seeds and small seedlings once-a-day is usually sufficient. Once they are 12-inches tall or taller it might be twice a day.

Yoder,
Just wondering why you went with a bag for transplanting from the 18 cell tray? I was looking at the 1 gallon round or square rootmaker containers but I'm wondering if the 5&quot; bag is better for some reason?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by escpen
Yoder,
Just wondering why you went with a bag for transplanting from the 18 cell tray? I was looking at the 1 gallon round or square rootmaker containers but I'm wondering if the 5&quot; bag is better for some reason?
==================================
My plan was to plant two batches of chestnuts. I started the first batch (the ones you see in my pics now) in early December. I plan to keep these all summer and plan them in the fall or winter. The second batch I plan to start in Feb and will plant those as soon as the threat of frost is gone (mid-April).
I live an hour and a half from my farm. When I started the project I didn't know if I was going to keep the first batch at the farm or keep them at home. The 5&quot; bags work differently than the pots. They prune by trapping the roots in the fabric rather than air pruning them. The bags are designed to fit into cinder blocks. This keeps them from blowing over and helps control temperature. The bags don't have holes for air pruning like the pots. So, the water slowly oozes out the stitching. They are supposed to retain moisture better than the pots and require less frequent watering.
If I decide to keep the first batch of trees at the farm, I'll only water them once a week when I get down there and if something comes up and I miss a week it could be two. The water retention is why I chose the bags.
I just bought 1 gal pots for future projects. The bags are smaller diameter than the pots. So if I get root-bound in the bags this summer I may be able to transplant to pots and hold off planting until after hunting season. Right now, I am leaning toward keeping all the trees at home until I plant them. This will allow me to use either pots or bags.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Another question for you experienced guys:
I did some work on my greenhouse today: <http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthrea...t=54226&amp;page=3
You can see from the picture in that thread that I have both fluorescent utility lights as well as PAR type LED lights. Right now they are all overhead. You can see that my trees are a bit tall and spindly. I think this was largely from high light position early on and the inability or reorganize plants effectively to match light height.
At any rate, as I was sitting back looking at my accomplishment for the day, I started to wonder if moving the LED lights down and aiming them horizontally at the stems would help stimulate lower leaf growth.
Does anyone have any opinions on horizontal lighting?

Ok....so i have my nuts in the icebox.....and boy are they cold!
I'm planning on taking them out to encourage germination....
Was planning on placing them in the basement, cool and dry 60 degrees I'm guessing.
Any thoughts on best way to initiate gemination....they been chilling for ~3 months now.
I have some roottrapper cells.....planning on using them....and then from there to gallon pots.

<font face="Calibri">Here are Larry's germination instructions:</font>
<font face="Calibri">I splash a little water on them, just enough to keep the surfaces of the seeds moist, and then place them in a back room that we keep at about 53-58 degrees. At this point they're still in the sealed ziplock freezer bags. Every day or so I inspect the bag, tip it letting the small amount of water in the bottom redistribute onto the seeds. Sometimes I even open the bag to let in fresh oxygen. I also keep them in the dark (probably makes no difference). Some will germinate in a week (usually the smallest seeds), many in two weeks, and the rest by three weeks. The idea is to mimic what happens in the wild in the spring. I've just in the last couple of days started this process on 100 seeds so in a couple of weeks I'll have an idea about how viable last year's seeds are! I've already had 4 of 9 seeds germinate that I just direct planted in 4-inch rootmaker pots at room temperature. I've posted a picture of them on the forum. Of the 5 seeds that didn't germinate, two rotted and three simply turned black and showed no sign of germination - not a good sign! The direct switch to 70 degrees may not have been the wisest approach.</font>
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EDIT:
Just thought i'd comment that for me, Larry's advice about germination was 100% correct. Here's my notes.
<font face="Calibri">I received the chestnut seeds from Larry around December 2, 2012. When they arrived in the small envelope, I just added a few drops of water to the ziplock and put it in the back of my refrigerator. I put the smaller ziplock in a bigger ziplock that contained a bunch of acorns. I checked it every week or two. Mainly to check for mold, and to ensure they stay moist. By January 19, 2013 I still didn't have any beginning to germinate so I contacted Larry and he provided me the above guidance. On January 20 I pulled them out of my refrigerator, took them down in my basement, put them in the corner inside a brown paper grocery bag. I had a larger outdoor thermometer that I kept next to the bag, it was 50 degrees in the dark corner. As instructed, I inspected every day. After 3 days and no changes. I moved them to a different spot in the basement on January 22. 2 more days at 52 degrees, nothing. I moved over another 25' and it was 54 degrees. I also added a little bit more water. January 25, the first chestnut germinated and I removed a little bit of extra water that was in the bag. The chestnuts however were nice and wet. Stay Tuned...</font>
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TY!
I'm excited to get this project underway.
I have a small hilltop above the house...I plan on clearing (started cutting trees yesterday) to make room for many of the chestnut seedlings, along with fruit trees and berry bushes.

I updated my post above by accident with a new post so i'll give it a bump to the top.

I have 4 rootmaker trays with Dunstans growing. Two of the trays have been in a south facing window that gets great sunlight for about 8-9 hours a day since mid Dec.
The others have been under grow lights for 14-16 hours a day. If you can put them in a window that gets light. Look at the difference.....
Southern window trees

Grow light trees...

Wow. How old are the trees? What kind of growlight setup are you using and how far are they away from the plants?
I've been using growlights in indoor greenhouses. Some have a window with a southern exposure and others have no window at all. I have not noticed any difference in plants from any of these locations.
I have not taken a good picture of my larger chestnuts lately, but here is a pictured I just posted on another thread of my runts:

Out of 80 seeds or so planted, I only had four or five that looked like your growlight trees and they happened to be in a greenhouse that has a southern window exposure as well as lights.

I had only two of the smaller T8 florescent bulbs on them within 6-8 inches....and the wife thinks I've gone full looney cause I have them in our laundry room. If I added more there would be pending legal action...lol. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
They were planted on Dec 12 and Dec 19.....different batches.
Its been over 70F for about a week in a row with lows in the 50's so they have all been outside getting some great Texas sun and wind action to strengthen the trunks. Hopefully they will start catch up to the others.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by unclefish
I had only two of the smaller T8 florescent bulbs on them within 6-8 inches....and the wife thinks I've gone full looney cause I have them in our laundry room. If I added more there would be pending legal action...lol. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
They were planted on Dec 12 and Dec 19.....different batches.
Its been over 70F for about a week in a row with lows in the 50's so they have all been outside getting some great Texas sun and wind action to strengthen the trunks. Hopefully they will start catch up to the others.
==================================
That may be the difference. Mine were started with four 4' T12 bulbs over 4 18-cell trays. I also had a couple of Par 38 LED bulbs running. I started with the lights far away like that. It was a mistake. The light intensity is reduced with the distance squared. You want the lights to be as close to the plants as possible without burning them. That is why I like the fluorescent bulbs. They have a lot of lumen with little heat. I also like the LED lights for that same reason but the cost is much higher.
A second issue I found with the lights far from the plants was that it produces leggy plants.
The plants you see in the picture above are my runts. I haven't taken a picture of the bigger trees recently on purpose, but when I took the picture of the setup for my runts, I caught the indoor greenhouse in the background. I apologize for the picture quality but here is what I got when I zoomed in:

Most of these plants as well as the runts were planted on Dec 2nd so they are about 10 days older than yours. It is possible to grow them with artificial lights. I'm in Northern Virginia so I don't have the Texas weather to help me out. My only choice is indoors until mid-April.
My wife thinks I'm nuts too. She has been taking pictures now and then. I think they might be for some future mental competency hearing for me (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

There have been questions raised in this thread about when to transplant chestnuts from 4-in root-maker pots. I'd like to share some photos I took last year that address this question. I planted 18 ungerminated American chestnut seeds on July 3, 2012, that had been in the refrigerator since fall of 2011. The picture below showns the seedlings on August 15, 2012 (6 weeks later).

I transplanted them into 1-gallon root-maker pots on September 12, 2012 (10 weeks after planting). Below I will show pictures of two of the plants and their roots. Notice that the roots have filled the available space.

And the roots of the above plant.

Plant number two.

And plant number two's roots.

Those are some nice looking trees Larry. I was out shoveling snow into 5 gallon buckets yesterday and left the same buckets outside gathering rain water to water my little American chestnut trees. So far 2 of the 18 you gave me have germinated and last night another one was barely starting to break through. Hopefully ready for planting tonight.

Nice pics Indiana! Comparing your pictures to the one I posted above, you can really see the difference between growing them indoors in the winter under artificial light and growing them outdoors.
My plants were much too tall and leggy compared to yours. Part of that may have been because I started with the lights to high when they were young. My plants were so tall that I started to transplant them at 5 weeks (compared to the 12-16 weeks rootmaker estimates). While a few of them had root systems that filled the cell, some of them did not and had some dirt clumps fall off after being extracted from the cell. I just finished transplanting many of the runts at 9 weeks. I would say that by 9 weeks most all of mine had filled the cell and were clearly ready to transplant.
One reason I had to start my transplant so early was that I had such uneven growth starting the ungerminated chestnuts in the 18-cell trays. My largest plants were so tall and had so much leaf development that I had to move the lights up and the newer ones just germinating were being shaded out.
Many of my runts at 9 weeks look similar to yours at 6 weeks. I think that is because I was able to transplant the larger plants and get the lights closer to the runts. The stem diameter on the runts is similar to the stem diameter on the larger plants.
It will be interesting to see how this goes from here....

Jack just out of curiosity are you growing Dunstans or American Chestnuts or both?

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Originally Posted by CrazyED
Those are some nice looking trees Larry. I was out shoveling snow into 5 gallon buckets yesterday and left the same buckets outside gathering rain water to water my little American chestnut trees. So far 2 of the 18 you gave me have germinated and last night another one was barely starting to break through. Hopefully ready for planting tonight.
==================================
We think alike Ed!! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
We received some heavy rains so I filled up 5, 5-gallon buckets today with rain water to get me through for a while.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrazyED
Jack just out of curiosity are you growing Dunstans or American Chestnuts or both?
==================================
Mine are Dunstans but I would think at this stage they should be pretty similar.
Having said that, I can already see some form differences in mine. Some seem to already be developing in more of the Americana form and others more of the Chinese form.

Would it be fair to say that you could also use water from a dehumidifier?
This would avoid hassle of storing an collecting rain water at same time avoiding the altering of water from a water softener.

It is Jan 29th and I planted the remaining 98 chestnuts tonight! Of those 98, 91 had started to root. Some were a little bigger and some were a little smaller but this one was typical:

One of the 98 was in good shape but simply had not yet sprouted. The other seven did not look right. They had not sprouted and they had a whitish substance on them. The were dull rather than shiny and the peat-moss sticks to it. I washed these off the best I could and planted them. They did not float, so I figured I'd give them a try as a learning experience. I marked them differently than the others so I know which ones were likely duds from the beginning.
This is the first time I've planted chestnuts that have roots starting. It is making me re-think the stratification process I used. When you plant chestnuts, you are supposed to lay them on the flat side similar to how they would fall in nature. The reason is that both the root and stem emerge from the pointed end and the root goes down and the stem up. If you plant them point up or point down either the root or stem have to do a u-turn and that can cause problems down the road.
The problem I found is that as soon as the root emerges, it reacts to gravity and starts going &quot;down&quot;. When chestnuts are stratified in a Ziploc bag with peat moss &quot;down&quot; can change as you pick up the bag to check them. This means the root sometimes snakes around. In most cases it wasn't a problem because the root had just started. In some cases, I had to plant the nut at an odd angle to compensate, and in some cases it was problematic.
I think next year I may &quot;preplant&quot; the chestnuts. I'm considering using Tupperware instead of a Ziploc bag. I'll place a base of sphagnum peat-moss on the bottom and then orient the seeds as though I was planting them and then place some more peat on and around them. This way if they start to root like they did this year, the roots should be growing in the right direction.
Well, I was exhausted when I was done but I'm glad I didn't wait any longer.
I'd like to here some of you guys thoughts on placing the seed in Tupperware with proper planting orientation for stratification. Good idea or bad?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Sounds reasonable. Bit from what I have read, you would not want a tight seal on the lid. I noticed same thing with those in bags an p. moss

Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaveWP
Sounds reasonable. Bit from what I have read, you would not want a tight seal on the lid. I noticed same thing with those in bags an p. moss
==================================
Yes, I would crack the like just like left the bag not completely sealed.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
One of the 98 was in good shape but simply had not yet sprouted. The other seven did not look right. They had not sprouted and they had a whitish substance on them. The were dull rather than shiny and the peat-moss sticks to it. I washed these off the best I could and planted them. They did not float, so I figured I'd give them a try as a learning experience. I marked them differently than the others so I know which ones were likely duds from the beginning.
This is the first time I've planted chestnuts that have roots starting. It is making me re-think the stratification process I used. When you plant chestnuts, you are supposed to lay them on the flat side similar to how they would fall in nature. The reason is that both the root and stem emerge from the pointed end and the root goes down and the stem up. If you plant them point up or point down either the root or stem have to do a u-turn and that can cause problems down the road.
The problem I found is that as soon as the root emerges, it reacts to gravity and starts going &quot;down&quot;. When chestnuts are stratified in a Ziploc bag with peat moss &quot;down&quot; can change as you pick up the bag to check them. This means the root sometimes snakes around. In most cases it wasn't a problem because the root had just started. In some cases, I had to plant the nut at an odd angle to compensate, and in some cases it was problematic.
I think next year I may &quot;preplant&quot; the chestnuts. I'm considering using Tupperware instead of a Ziploc bag. I'll place a base of sphagnum peat-moss on the bottom and then orient the seeds as though I was planting them and then place some more peat on and around them. This way if they start to root like they did this year, the roots should be growing in the right direction.
Well, I was exhausted when I was done but I'm glad I didn't wait any longer.
I'd like to here some of you guys thoughts on placing the seed in Tupperware with proper planting orientation for stratification. Good idea or bad?
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
Jack, Looks like you have been doing good with your Dunstans. I'm enjoying following along with your process.
This is how I did it last year on my first batch. Left the lid on sideways but didn't cover them with any peat. Had quite a bit of mold issues as I waited for them to germinate. But the roots did start growing down.
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This is how I am doing it this year and did it last year starting with my second batch. The Dunstans are just randomly covered in about 3&quot; of Promix and kept moist around 70 degrees. The ones on top here are what had germinated and were planted in rootmakers on 1/6/13. The roots weren't going straight down (if you lay the nut on its flat surface) I just plant with the root radicle going down as much as possible and the top growth will go the right direction.
I have had 5-10 this year that have been as you described with the whitish substance and the mix sticks on it. If you squeeze them they are very soft and will often have water come out. If I remember right, I cut a couple of these open last year and they had begun to rot inside the shell. I haven't been keeping those this year.
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This is what happens if you don't check them for 2 weeks! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) 5 or 6 of them had started putting up top growth way down in the mix and the larger root radicle made it a little more difficult to plant in the rootmakers.
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I think it would be very tedious and time consuming to get each nut flat side down and then covered with peat or other mix each time when it came time to check for germination when you are dealing with a hundred or more nuts. In a couple of weeks I'm going to try just the ziploc bag and water as indianasam described. My current batch of chestnuts came out of the fridge 12/14/12 and I check them once a week (except that 1 week I missed) and plant those that have devolped a root. Generally seems to be 15-20 each week.

Therapy,
Thanks, that was an informative post. Actually, I was trying NOT to have mine germinate. I wanted to wait another week. I planted my first batch in the 18 cell trays with no sign of germination. The only downside was the uneven growth. Now that I'm using the express trays and can move plants around grouping them based on size, this should not be a problem.
I wasn't checking individual seeds for germination. I was checking the group for germination to see if I was forced to plant them. I was actually hoping to wait until Feb 3rd, but thought better to plant before more root development. I would thing picking up a couple seeds would be enough to tell if the root radical was starting for the batch. Mine all seemed to be within an inch or so of each other.
You mention you had mold problems. I had them too early on. I ended up taking all my chestnuts for the second batch out and giving them a light bleach solution bath before returning them to the sphagnum. Next year, I plan to give them the bath as soon as I receive them.
Thanks,
Jack

I took my bag of nuts out of the fridge 2 weekends ago and placed the bag on the basement floor, cool unfinished basement (for now).
Last weekend after reeading some posts here......I brought the nuts upstairs to moisten up.....I forgot and left them on the counter.
I checked them Sunday before I was going to put them back on the basement floor. Several of the smaller nuts (From Larry, thanks again)
had began to sprout.
I placed all 20 of them on a bed of moist soil in roottrapper pots. The remaining larger nuts (from another source) I placed back in the bag and on the cool floor.
Currently the roottrapper pots are in front of a large south facing window.
And so it begins!!!!!!!!!

ROS,
When you say roottrapper pots, are you referring to the rootmaker 18-cell trays, the 5&quot; roottrapper bags, the 1 gal rootbuilder II pots, or something else?
Thanks,
Jack

sorry....they are the rootmaker 18-cell trays.

 

[yoderjac]

As I was watering tonight, I decided to count the number of chestnuts that have sprouted since I planted the batch on Jan 29th. I came up with over 40% that have sprouted already.

just bought some from indiansam Well try my luck at it this april.
Great thread full of info.

Here's a great Chestnut planting FAQ from the ACF.
http://www.acf.org/pdfs/resources/Factsheet_Planting%20and%20Growing%20FAQ_Final.pdf

I have a batch of chestnuts that I put in a brown paper sack in the crisper in a refrigerator and &quot;meant&quot; to put in plastic bags with some peat moss. Well, now it's three months later and all the nuts floated when I tested them. The intent was to grow some for my wood line (I live in NC), but I'm afraid I've ruined them. I cracked one open and the nut inside is rock hard. Is there any hope of these still being viable and if so, what is the recommended course of action for getting them to sprout?
Thanks,
Ben
------------------------------------------------Update------------------------------------------------------------------
I soaked the nuts overnight in a bowl of water. There were six or so that sank when I checked on them this morning so I pulled them out and put them in a bag with a damp paper towel. After inspecting the rest, I noticed some of them would rattle. I assume this is due to the nut drying out and shrinking enough to allow room for it to rattle about within the hull. These I pitched into the compost heap. The hulls have softened quite a bit after their soaking. Any suggestions as to what I should do with either the &quot;reluctant sinkers&quot; or the remaining floaters? I've pulled them from the bowl of water.
Thanks

So my fridge broke down and my chestnuts nuts have warmed up for the past two days. Could I put them back in the fridge and they would be ok.
I really don't want them to start growing as im about to go out of town for 12 days for work.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Yes, you can put them back in the fridge. I've taken mine out for a day or so to deal with mold and put them back in. The warm up will speed up germination compared to if you had not warmed them up, but putting them back in will slow things down again.
You probably don't want to plant if you are leaving. These were planted 18 days ago, need watered every day, and I've moved the lights at least a half dozen times:

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Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
So my fridge broke down and my chestnuts nuts have warmed up for the past two days. Could I put them back in the fridge and they would be ok.
I really don't want them to start growing as im about to go out of town for 12 days for work.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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I would think you'd be ok. In nature there's thaws and freezes, etc.

Finally getting a little top growth on my American Chestnuts from Larry. My basement is pretty cool so it's a slow growing process but I'm fine with that. As long as I get nice healthy seedlings that's all I really care about. Once it's warm enough to get these outside I'm sure they'll take off and be good for fall planting or I'll put them in the ground next spring.
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I have 100 nuts in the fridge since late dec.I did not want to start them indoors prefering instead to start in a raised bed.Anybody think mid march would be ok for planting?Thanks!

Today I planted the chestnuts that I got from Larry into the rootmaker trays. 100% germination (while in the refrigerator). I'll get a picture or two up as soon as I can get them off the phone.
I've got to check on the dunstans to see if any of them have germinated yet. I hope they hold off a while longer. I'm out of room, trays and money.

OK....no pictures to show.....planted the sprouting chestnuts on 2/5. So far All I see are roots going down....no sprouts of the trees as of yet. Is this normal? Anything to be concerned about? The basement is pretty cool...55-60 degrees.

Here is a picture showing the radical have emerged. I stored them in a ziplock bag (with holes punched in it by a tootpick) in damp sphagnum moss. I placed them into the refrigerator on 10/9/12.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by ROS VEGAS
OK....no pictures to show.....planted the sprouting chestnuts on 2/5. So far All I see are roots going down....no sprouts of the trees as of yet. Is this normal? Anything to be concerned about? The basement is pretty cool...55-60 degrees.
==================================
I wouldn't worry yet. These things vary all over the map. At your temperature I've had them take 4 to 5 weeks. Even at room temperatures a few will take longer than that. As long as there's a viable root growing eventually a sprout will form.

I was running out of smaller pots, so placed a number of chestnuts in large storage tote with approx 7 inch soil (sphagum peat moss and Miracle grow tree and shrub)roughly 1:1 ratio. Once starting to sprout, knew needed to replant in separate container, which i made from window screening.

my chestnuts are starting to sprout in the fridge. When can plant outside as its still below freezing at night. I was going to do pot on some in the house but I have 100 seeds. How long can they last in the house with a grow light of some sort.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
my chestnuts are starting to sprout in the fridge. When can plant outside as its still below freezing at night. I was going to do pot on some in the house but I have 100 seeds. How long can they last in the house with a grow light of some sort.
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Mitch,
I've had mine in the house since they were planted on Dec 2nd. I did transplant them to larger rootmakers. I plan to keep those in containers through summer at least. Root maker says 12-16 weeks in the cells. I used our &quot;less than 10% change of hard frost&quot; date minus that 12 weeks to select a date to plant the nuts in the cells. I plan to direct those seedlings in Mid April in my area.
Thanks,
Jack

I'm starting to get some top sprouts from the radical on the American Chestnuts from Larry. 16 days after planting. I'll try to see how the pictures on cell phone are and get them posted.

Have more than 200 chestnut trees, from seed (nut). Working with different forms of self made air pruning containers. Will eval root structure at time of planting to differentiate success of various containers.
Does anyone have any information or suggestions as to when to transplant? Currently planning for more consistent warmer weather. AND when native trees leaf out. beyond that, should the nut on the transplanted tree be present or removed? If removed, will this happen on its own as a sign of tree readiness or maturity.

 

[yoderjac]

DaveWP, if transplanting outside definitely cut the nut off. Rodents will find the plants and in their zeal to get the nut may clip the stem of the seedling. Usually the nuts (cotyledons) dry up on their own at around the 12th week. Rule of thumb: DON'T TEMPT RODENTS!

Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaveWP
Have more than 200 chestnut trees, from seed (nut). Working with different forms of self made air pruning containers. Will eval root structure at time of planting to differentiate success of various containers.
Does anyone have any information or suggestions as to when to transplant? Currently planning for more consistent warmer weather. AND when native trees leaf out. beyond that, should the nut on the transplanted tree be present or removed? If removed, will this happen on its own as a sign of tree readiness or maturity.
==================================
I used the rootmaker system for mine. I planted about 200 and did them in two batches. I'm not sure which containers you are using but rootmaker suggest transplanting from the 18-cell trays at 12-16 weeks. I transplanted by first batch a few at a time from 7 to 9 weeks into 5&quot; roottrapper bags. In hind sight, I don't see any problem waiting 12-16.
My first batch will be kept in bags all summer and not planted until fall or winter next year. I timed my second batch to go directly from the cells into the ground. I looked at our &quot;last hard frost date&quot;. They have a table that shows the date after which a hard frost occurs less than 10% of the time. For my location, that is mid-April. So, I back off 12 weeks or so from that date for planting my second batch.
As the other poster suggests, the reason to remove the nut is to avoid attracting rodents. Just gently pinch or cut it off at planting time. I am also using 2' tree tubes buried 2&quot; into the ground to further protect from rodents. I'll be using 3' plastic mesh tubes over the 2' solid tube for browse protection from deer.
Good Luck,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks indianasam44 and yoder. I'll make sure nuts (cotyledons) are removed. As for the transition to outdoors. Any suggestions on the hardening to go from inside plants to outdoor.
Yoder - I do not have specific root maker pots. What I did for the majority of the trees was cut replacement screening (into various sizes) to create various width pots. Hoping to achieve air pruning effect.

My plan for transition is this:
- First, I'm currently running 16 hour days with my lights. I will look up the day length for my planned planting day and begin to adjust my lighting to match that.
- A couple weeks before planting, I will kill the heaters in the indoor greenhouses. This will let the temperature fluctuate with my house temperature which has a setback thermostat.
- On good weather days a couple weeks before planting, I may put my trays on the deck in the morning and take them back in in the evening.
I'm not sure if this is necessary with seedling this young, but I want to maximize my success.
Thanks,
Jack

For hardening off I do something similar to yoderj. Even though its &quot;labor intensive&quot; any day when the temperature outside is above freezing I move all my seedlings out onto a south facing deck. The sun is still far enough &quot;down&quot; at noon for the atmosphere to filter out most of the harmful ultraviolet part of the light spectrum. This way the plants get gradually hardened off. They don't seem to complain about the large temperature swing they encounter. If you wait longer before first exposure, say mid to late April, you must be more careful to gradually increase the direct exposure. For example, start with a one hour exposure at around noon and then add 15 minutes each day over a period of two to three weeks.

Thx for advice. The plants I have pictured are in a SW facing sun room. I suspect that with the natural light they are getting, They maybe ok. The other 100+ in my basement under lights will have to get the gradual exposure. Ironically, the first few I tried in window exploded with top growth, then faded to stems. I put them back in basement, an seem to be recovering nicely. Suspect at this point it had to do with a root system that was very immature.

Here are my Indianasam seedlings and three Dunstans from Walmart. They shipped the Northern shipments on the 25th. I've enjoyed reading this forum and kicked off my own chestnuts this year. Makes for a fun winter project germinating and planting chestnuts.

I transplanted a few of my chestnuts from larry this week. Moved them from express cells to 1 gallon rootmaker pots. Tree's look good. Once again I have had a difficult time getting these things germinated. Not sure if i'm just too anxious and don't leave in the fridge long enough or what. I bought 18 seeds and I got 6 nice trees, 1 of which is a runt.
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Originally Posted by CrazyED
I transplanted a few of my chestnuts from larry this week. Moved them from express cells to 1 gallon rootmaker pots. Tree's look good. Once again I have had a difficult time getting these things germinated. Not sure if i'm just too anxious and don't leave in the fridge long enough or what. I bought 18 seeds and I got 6 nice trees, 1 of which is a runt.
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Ed, you must be too anxious and not let them stratify long enough. I've always got 95-98% germination with chestnuts without any special tricks. Just peat moss in an open ziplock gallon bag with a moist paper towel at the top.

Have had much success with trees growing, some already 2 ft tall. Would you gentlemen with more experience advocate using tubes or cages when planting. Have read that some use short tubes, but don't see advantage due to their height vs the detriment of the trees growing too much an being too spindly.

I am debating on when to plant my chestnut seedlings in their permanant location.
I planted the sprouting ( some were) nuts on 2/5. They have been infront of south facing basement window, cool, no direct sun. As expected, they are growing slow.
I plan on hardening them off like any other plant....slow/short exposeure to direct sun and wind conditions. When appropiate, I'll transplant into larger pots....1-3 gallons.
I haven't decided it I want to transplant them into the ground this fall....or wait until next spring. THe prepping for the location has a lot more work to be done. I have a small hilltop behing the house that I have clear cut....trees were mostly all small crooked wild cherry. Lots of brush/firewood to clean up.
Any advantages to a fall planting versus a 2014 spring planting?
I also may be coming into some American chestnut seedlings dfrom the ACF....I'll have my hands full tending trees this year.

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Originally Posted by DaveWP
Have had much success with trees growing, some already 2 ft tall. Would you gentlemen with more experience advocate using tubes or cages when planting. Have read that some use short tubes, but don't see advantage due to their height vs the detriment of the trees growing too much an being too spindly.
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I've had great success using a 5 ft tube for the first year, then removing it and caging the second year. Most trees will be out of the tube by fall.

just something I found to be interesting, I put some nuts in gallon size ziploc bags and some in sandwich size. The ones in the gallon size seem to all sprout well the smaller bags very few sprouted. Does anyone know why that may be, I know for next year the ones I want to direct seed will go into small bags.

I'm looking for input on members who have grown chestnuts and used the gallon or larger rootmaker pots. I'm using Promix BX potting soil.
First question is on watering. How do you water without over watering? When you do water do you pour in water and let it soak in until water comes out the lower holes? Right now the seedlings roots are only taking up the upper 2&quot; of the pots.
My next question is on what you do if a large rainfall is expected? We are expecting 1-2&quot; in the next 36 hours. Will the pots drain sufficiently or should I put them under cover? The seedlings are in 1 gallon rootmaker pots that sit on a raised screen so there's plenty of airflow and drainage if the Promix will drain properly. I just don't want the chestnuts to get wet feet and damp off. Most are 15&quot; to 2' in height.

I'm using Farfard 3B but I think BX is even better drained. Most of the trees I have left are in 5&quot; bags, but I have a couple in High 5 rootbuilder pots. I planted all of the ones I had in 1 gal root builder pots.
I used a simply moisture meter to decide when to water. Within a particular container type, they were reasonably consistent. I got to the point where I would test about 1/2 dozen and then water them all accordingly. I always drowned mine and let the water pour out the holes and then don't water until the moisture meter says to water again.
I will be installing a drip irrigation system for my remaining container chestnuts this weekend. I'm not really sure how to set it, especially to account for spring rain.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks Jack. What model meter do you have? Where do I purchase? Local, Amazon, Home Depot, etc?

I can't vouch for anything since this is my first time around. They probably have similar stuff at lowes and home depot. When I did my poking around to learn a little about drip irrigation I found the web site at Irrigation Direct to be helpful. They have lots of videos and tutorials for setup. I only have about 25 trees that I will be keeping through the summer so I decided to simply order a kit that I can expand later if needed.
Here is what I ordered:
Item Qty Brief Description Rate Amount
DD-DWT673 1 Drip Pro Digital Water Timer 3/4&quot; FHT Inlet x 3/4&quot; MHT Outlet $29.90 $29.90
DK-CGM 1 Drip Irrigation Kit for Container Gardening - Patios &amp; Decks - Medium $27.50 $27.50
Total $57.40
It is supposed to arrive tomorrow and I hope to install it this weekend. I'll let you know how it works out.
Thanks,
Jack

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Originally Posted by Michbowhunter
just something I found to be interesting, I put some nuts in gallon size ziploc bags and some in sandwich size. The ones in the gallon size seem to all sprout well the smaller bags very few sprouted. Does anyone know why that may be, I know for next year the ones I want to direct seed will go into small bags.
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It's all a matter of excess moisture. If you notice condensed water on the sides of the bags then eventually seeds in contact with this moisture will germinate. I have this happen occasionally. The problem is that you don't want the seeds to dry out in storage so it's tricky to keep the right moisture level. You want to keep the seeds viable without having them germinate until you want them to. Why bag size would make a difference I'm not sure but I would guess it has something to do with moisture level. I store in quart-size bags because I find them convenient. To get the seeds to germinate I just splash a little water on them so the seed surfaces are moist (it doesn't take much) and they usually germinate in a couple of weeks.

Here's a good chestnut growing manual that covers just about all the questions, soil, location, clipping radical, fertilizing, tubes, caging, orchard spacing, etc.
http://www.acf.org/pdfs/resources/planting_manual.pdf

Chestnuts have overtaken Mulberry as the most preferred browse on my place. All of them need to be caged! I removed a cage on my biggest one, and a buck top killed it. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

You're scaring me! Mine are just in tubes. So far, no significant deer damage. Perhaps they haven't learned yet...

Our property is located in Northwestern Wisconsin and it gets a little cold during the winters. Last year I planted some Dunstan's that did great during the summer. Most grew out of the tubes or were near the top of the tubes. As of last weekend, almost all other trees have already leafed out and some of my apple trees are just starting to flower. However, the Dunstan's haven't leafed out and the buds aren't looking real great either. Anyone know if they just leaf out later than most other trees or is it possible the Dunstan's weren't able to handle the cold?

 

[yoderjac]

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Originally Posted by hunt4fun2
Our property is located in Northwestern Wisconsin and it gets a little cold during the winters. Last year I planted some Dunstan's that did great during the summer. Most grew out of the tubes or were near the top of the tubes. As of last weekend, almost all other trees have already leafed out and some of my apple trees are just starting to flower. However, the Dunstan's haven't leafed out and the buds aren't looking real great either. Anyone know if they just leaf out later than most other trees or is it possible the Dunstan's weren't able to handle the cold?
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Were the tubes vented? I've had problems with lots of trees hardening off come winter and then having die back the next year from tubes.

LetEmGrow:
Yes - the tubes were vented.

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Originally Posted by hunt4fun2
Our property is located in Northwestern Wisconsin and it gets a little cold during the winters. Last year I planted some Dunstan's that did great during the summer. Most grew out of the tubes or were near the top of the tubes. As of last weekend, almost all other trees have already leafed out and some of my apple trees are just starting to flower. However, the Dunstan's haven't leafed out and the buds aren't looking real great either. Anyone know if they just leaf out later than most other trees or is it possible the Dunstan's weren't able to handle the cold?
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In northern New Hampshire my chestnuts (Oikos and Dunstan) just started leafing out in the past two weeks. We had 4&quot; of snow Memorial Day weekend. Oaks that had leafed out had some damage. I would think you'd see signs of life shortly if they made it.

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Originally Posted by hunt4fun2
Our property is located in Northwestern Wisconsin and it gets a little cold during the winters. Last year I planted some Dunstan's that did great during the summer. Most grew out of the tubes or were near the top of the tubes. As of last weekend, almost all other trees have already leafed out and some of my apple trees are just starting to flower. However, the Dunstan's haven't leafed out and the buds aren't looking real great either. Anyone know if they just leaf out later than most other trees or is it possible the Dunstan's weren't able to handle the cold?
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Dont give up yet. They leaf out well after my apple trees. I had one that just leafed out on the Mothers day, a good 4 weeks after most all the rest.

Here's some American Chestnuts from Indiana Larry. These were 100% stratified. I planted them immediately and left them in my basement about 3 weeks before moving them outside. I tried to let these grow a bit more naturally rather than growing them under the lights. All 18 germinated and sprouted, a squirrel or chippy got one of them before I had them properly protected.
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This is one of my all time favorite posts, but we haven't heard from the original poster in a while. Any updates, pictures etc. ?

Hey guys, i planted around 55 Dunstans this last spring that i had grown indoors over winter after threat of frost.About half are doin great almost to the top of 5 ft tubes but the other half are just the same when i put them in the ground do you think there is something wrong ?I planted them in the best spots i could find and we have had plenty of rain but the are on well drained soil.Do you think they will eventually pop or are they doomed

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Originally Posted by NYHUNTER
Hey guys, i planted around 55 Dunstans this last spring that i had grown indoors over winter after threat of frost.About half are doin great almost to the top of 5 ft tubes but the other half are just the same when i put them in the ground do you think there is something wrong ?I planted them in the best spots i could find and we have had plenty of rain but the are on well drained soil.Do you think they will eventually pop or are they doomed
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I wouldn't worry too much. They will grow. I've seen lots of difference with chestnut growth with seedlings planted from nuts at the same time, same conditions. They may be getting their feet set and then take off. I think it's natures way of evening things out. For instance, in some parts of the country people had late frosts and snow. Some trees that had leafed out and had early growth may have had die back and had limb damage from ice and snow. Ones that were still dormant didn't.

Ok maybe they just need time im probly too anxious!i stopped at my local hydroponics shop and he said the same thing he also sold me a small bottle of nitrozyme said its all natural marine algae and will give them a boost so i took it down there today and sprayed the sad looking ones,time will tell.Thanks,Nick

my chestnuts are growing well and have a lot of leaves. Would anyone suggest to trim off the lower leaves of the tree to maybe help promote more top growth. So far these are the easiest things to grow and will be doing more next year.

Here's a pic of my chestnuts from yesterday. 10 of them are doing really well.
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Very nice! I have 25 that are outside in rootmakers waiting for fall. After the attack by Jap beetles, they are not looking as nice as yours.

Gator they look great,Jack how are your chestnuts that you planted out during spring doing?,mine are takin a beating from beetles but they are ok

What height is typical from an early spring planting until that first leaf drop?

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Originally Posted by NYHUNTER
Gator they look great,Jack how are your chestnuts that you planted out during spring doing?,mine are takin a beating from beetles but they are ok
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The ones planted in the field fared better than the ones in containers as far as the Japanese Beetle damage goes. I think the blue tubes were attractive to them. The ones in containers are clustered together with drip irrigation. The ones in the field are planted about 18' apart. When I sprayed in the field, it looked like on most trees the damage was just starting to occur. The ones in containers at the barn already had significant leaf damage when I sprayed. I think they just found them faster. I don't think any will die from this. I'm starting to see some new green through all the brown in the tube. I'll know more when I plant them in the fall.
We have had timely rain. This is our first week of hot dry weather. I think my mid-April planted trees have had time to establish enough to make it through the summer.