Persimmon from seed, options?

[SClearman]

I have some persimmon seed I bought in the fall. I have no idea what type they are, I expect American, I believe the seller said they were native. I put them in the refrigerator back when I got them. It's February 20th here in Texas about 60 miles south east of Dallas. Weather right now is mild days in the 60's, nights in 30-40's.
I've planted over 300 trees from seed including oaks, chestnut and pecan. NONE of them lived through the summer here. I dont have access to get them water in the field. Where I have planted trees in the past has been basically open field with no cover or shade. Temps here in July and August regularly get into the 100's for days at a time and we go weeks without rain. Based on weather and my lack of success I have a couple ideas about what might work.

First option is fall planting in September and October. We regularly have 60-70 days until November and December. Fall planting would give the roots a chance to grow and establish before winter and then start again in spring. If I take this route, I'll have to start seeds in pots and transplant in fall. I have some 4x4x12 tall pots that I am using for Chestnuts which I plan to fall plant this year.

Second option is really just a variation. I know there is no way for seedlings to survive in the open here, I've proven that. But I have been letting the fields grow wild. They are growing lots of Mesquite trees and Honey Locust. I could plant in the areas where the Mesquites provide shade. Seedlings would still get plenty of sunlight but might possibly be protected some. I have some areas that were not cleared when I got the property that have Mesquite 20" tall. I could direct seed there and as my previously open areas thicken up seed there in later years.

I'm open to suggestions.
Scott

 

[SClearman]

I forgot to mention.... I put the persimmon seed in the 'fridge and did nothing to it. They have not been scarified. Is that something I should do now when I pull them out?

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I have no idea on whether or not persimmons will do well in your climate. I know they are in parts of Texas, but I am not sure which species and where in Texas they can survive.

As far as the persimmons, there are some good threads on this forum.

Starting Persimmons from seeds advice needed

I have a Prok and Yates persimmon trees in my yard beginning to drop fruit. I have started persimmon trees from seed in the past with limited success. Please point me in the right direction. I am looking for tips, tricks, youtube videos, forum threads etc. about starting persimmon from seed. I...

habitat-talk.com

Persimmons from seed?

I been sprouting oaks, plums, chokecherry, maples. They been coming along even in spite of my propane heater being dead lined, been burning a lot of wood in the building. No persimmons have sprouted. I took them out of cold storage. They been in cold storage since early November.Some are...

habitat-talk.com

You will need to ensure the seed coat is scratched. I have used sandpaper. Then, the seeds will need to be in a moist media (like long fiber spaghnum moss) for a month or two. You will see the seeds start to swell and even open up. When it looks like the seeds are about to burst or open is when I take them and pot them. You can probably leave them in the media until they can be planted outside in pots without the risk of frost. The pots you mentioned would work. With your longer growing season, you might need a bigger pot eventually. Check out the other threads for more tips.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I grew some last spring that I harvested in the previous fall. I removed the seed coat and put them in the fridge over winter. Very few sprouted in the fridge like chestnuts. I took them out of the fridge and let them start getting warm, and they started to show tap roots. Some barely opened. I planted them all, and nearly all of them grew. ( I did toss the moldy ones) if it's been 90 days, let them warm up and seed if they pop open.

 

[SClearman]

Thanks, I'll take the out of the 'fridge. Do i need to soak them in water now? or just keep moist?

 

[RGrizzzz]

Thanks, I'll take the out of the 'fridge. Do i need to soak them in water now? or just keep moist?

Just keep them damp.

 

[bigboreblr]

IF growing from pots, regular pots create root balls Get some sort of air pruing root maker pot. Growing from seed, you probably don't need more than a quart container. You can also just grow them in bigger root maker pots and leave them there for 2 years and water at home.

Far as putting them out, you can add shade to you cage. Push some cedar branches in there, or maybe use some sort of netting to hade, liek a bit of burlap.

I like the fall planting idea. I do that with apple trees here in NY.

IF you're looking for permisson rootstock, these guys still have some.

American Persimmon Tree For Sale Online - Mehrabyan Nursery

The American Persimmon Tree for sale online at our fruit tree nursery is not only easy to grow but also produces sweet and tasty persimmon

www.mehrabyannursery.com

 

[The Fishman]

What species of oak were you trying to plant? I would think that you should be trying bur, chinquapin, post, and maybe Mexican white oak. These trees are adapted to the dry climate. I would suggest against air pruning pots. I understand the benefits, but a big, fibrous root system that sits in dry soil is not going to be a benefit. Your trees are going to need their long tap roots to reach moisture.

There is a Texas persimmon that is probably better adapted to your area than the American persimmon seeds that you bought. This assumes the seller wasn't from Texas. You can try the American persimmon seeds and see if they work. As others have suggested, plant them on the eastern side of the other trees or use burlap on the sides of a cage to shade the seedlings from the hot sun. As you have suggested, fall planting would probably work better also.

 

[SClearman]

What species of oak were you trying to plant? I would think that you should be trying bur, chinquapin, post, and maybe Mexican white oak. These trees are adapted to the dry climate. I would suggest against air pruning pots. I understand the benefits, but a big, fibrous root system that sits in dry soil is not going to be a benefit. Your trees are going to need their long tap roots to reach moisture.

There is a Texas persimmon that is probably better adapted to your area than the American persimmon seeds that you bought. This assumes the seller wasn't from Texas. You can try the American persimmon seeds and see if they work. As others have suggested, plant them on the eastern side of the other trees or use burlap on the sides of a cage to shade the seedlings from the hot sun. As you have suggested, fall planting would probably work better also.

The oaks i tried were sawtooth, bur, and chestnut oak

 

[TreeDaddy]

SClearman,

I am in Van Zandt co not far from you

My best success has been with Shumard ,southern crabapple, chestnut,dwarf chinquapin, and native persimmon allegheny chinquapin

if you go the air pruning route, I wouldn't transplant anything less than 3 gal to the field

Anything smaller, is doomed to failure for the reasons that fisherman mentioned

bill

 

[SClearman]

I think I might warm them, scarify them, keep them damp and as a radical emerges direct seed them in the shade as best I can. And then of course hope for the best.

 

[Teeder]

IF growing from pots, regular pots create root balls Get some sort of air pruing root maker pot. Growing from seed, you probably don't need more than a quart container. You can also just grow them in bigger root maker pots and leave them there for 2 years and water at home.

Far as putting them out, you can add shade to you cage. Push some cedar branches in there, or maybe use some sort of netting to hade, liek a bit of burlap.

I like the fall planting idea. I do that with apple trees here in NY.

IF you're looking for permisson rootstock, these guys still have some.

American Persimmon Tree For Sale Online - Mehrabyan Nursery

The American Persimmon Tree for sale online at our fruit tree nursery is not only easy to grow but also produces sweet and tasty persimmon

www.mehrabyannursery.com

Thanks for posting this!
I ordered some persimmon rootstock and a couple shagbark Hickory.

At approximately what age can you tell if a persimmon is male or female?

 

[Angus 1895]

Without supplementing water in times of drought, you are asking a lot from non native seedlings. I bought the 250 gallon totes for this.
My wife built the shade on the cage.
This tree is outperforming it’s cohorts that aren’t shaded.
The shade is for the afternoon sun.
The tree has outgrown it!

 

[bigboreblr]

Thanks for posting this!
I ordered some persimmon rootstock and a couple shagbark Hickory.

At approximately what age can you tell if a persimmon is male or female?

I ordered from thrm last year, but canceled becausr of my torn bicep. He refunded my money. Diesel has bought frombhim and says theyre ok.

Bought mulberry from him as well as rootstocks and 5 or so grafted trees.

They make root msker pots thst are deeper. Snd there are some styles thst aim thr roots downward.

Ny doesnt get bad droughts, but i eould find larger weemats, plrnty of mulch. Sns water slowly.

I use 2 to 5 gallon buckets and drill a 3/16thd hole in thr bottom. Takes about s minute a gsllon to drain. Keeps water focused instead of a wider shallower water when you hose or dump water on ground.