Growing Chestnut Trees from Chestnuts - Transferred from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

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Originally Posted by bigeight
Any guess on how much to add at this stage? Most are 2-5" tall and just starting little leaves. Hate to fry them, trying to help.
I think that type of Fertalizer comes in granular/beads. So I would add it by laying on the surface, or mixing it with the water?
Never used the stuff, or been successful fertilizing things in early stages before. I have toasted a few things in the past by Fertalizing them(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Its a slow release fertilizer, the back of the container should show you how much to broadcast and it recommends mixing it in to get soil contact.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Yes, he does. I'm sure if you sent him a message he'd give you the same deal as FL_Archer.
This auction ends in 1.5 days:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Genuine-A...4&cmd=ViewItem
This auction ends in 2.5 days:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Genuine-A...4&cmd=ViewItem
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Send him a message and he will start s buy it now auction. Act quick because they don't last long on buy it now.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
Seems to be a few sources on Ebay for some chestnuts...this one seems to be the real deal for anyone that wants the regular American Chestnut. Had the leaves verified as being pure American as well and can provide the info on that.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Genuine-A...em3f13ed 290f
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Looks like I will be a guinea pig too! Got 12 germinated on their way from auction that ended sun. Anxious to see their progression along side the Dunstans I have going now.
Thanks letemgrow for the link! And to all those here who share their knowledge and experiences to help others learn!

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
Its a slow release fertilizer, the back of the container should show you how much to broadcast and it recommends mixing it in to get soil contact.
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Slow release, as in there is no risk of burning the seedlings with it?
Should I put it around the perimeter, but not close ti the root?

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Originally Posted by FL_archer
I will be the guinea pig. He agreed to do a buy it now. $20 bucks for 20 seeds. If it doesnt work out well then Im out $20. I can gamble that much and not feel too bad about it. If it does work though...heck of a deal. We will see.
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I'll be right there with you. Won the auction tonight and have 12 on the way. Even if they die from the blight it will be a good learning experience for when blight resistant nuts become more widely available.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
I'll be right there with you. Won the auction tonight and have 12 on the way. Even if they die from the blight it will be a good learning experience for when blight resistant nuts become more widely available.
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They won't necessarily die from the blight, will be a cycle where they get up there in size, more than likely produce some nuts in the process, blight, then send up more shoots and do it all over again.
Over time, hypovirulence has shown up with this cycle keeps happening over and over again.
From ACCF
"Some Facts About Hypovirulence
Hypovirulence is a virus disease of the blight fungus. Weakened by the virus, the blight's progress is slowed down, so that a chestnut tree which may have no resistance to blight can form the slow-growing swollen cankers normally produced only on resistant trees. Scientists have been trying to manipulate hypovirulence to develop an economical biocontrol for blight. Among the obstacles to be overcome are 1) the blight spreads very rapidly in nature, while hypovirulence spreads very slowly; 2) there are many types of virulent strains in the forest which resist transfer of the virus responsible for hypovirulence; and 3) good, swollen, slow-growing cankers sometimes change into bad, sunken, rapid-growing cankers that kill trees.
Integrated management for American chestnut revival combines hypovirulence (by inoculation) with blight-resistance (grafted) on sites identified as ideal American chestnut habitat, to produce blight control. In Virginia's Lesesne State Forest, 3 resistant American chestnuts were grafted in 1980. In 1982 and 1983 the first cankers were inoculated with hypovirulence. These trees are thriving; they have produced nuts for more than 10 years, and they make excellent annual growth. They are surrounded by non-resistant American chestnuts which are continuously killed back by the blight. Cooperative research with the Virginia Department of Forestry, Virginia Tech and ACCF."

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
They won't necessarily die from the blight, will be a cycle where they get up there in size, more than likely produce some nuts in the process, blight, then send up more shoots and do it all over again.
Over time, hypovirulence has shown up with this cycle keeps happening over and over again.
From ACCF
"Some Facts About Hypovirulence
Hypovirulence is a virus disease of the blight fungus. Weakened by the virus, the blight's progress is slowed down, so that a chestnut tree which may have no resistance to blight can form the slow-growing swollen cankers normally produced only on resistant trees. Scientists have been trying to manipulate hypovirulence to develop an economical biocontrol for blight. Among the obstacles to be overcome are 1) the blight spreads very rapidly in nature, while hypovirulence spreads very slowly; 2) there are many types of virulent strains in the forest which resist transfer of the virus responsible for hypovirulence; and 3) good, swollen, slow-growing cankers sometimes change into bad, sunken, rapid-growing cankers that kill trees.
Integrated management for American chestnut revival combines hypovirulence (by inoculation) with blight-resistance (grafted) on sites identified as ideal American chestnut habitat, to produce blight control. In Virginia's Lesesne State Forest, 3 resistant American chestnuts were grafted in 1980. In 1982 and 1983 the first cankers were inoculated with hypovirulence. These trees are thriving; they have produced nuts for more than 10 years, and they make excellent annual growth. They are surrounded by non-resistant American chestnuts which are continuously killed back by the blight. Cooperative research with the Virginia Department of Forestry, Virginia Tech and ACCF."
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This probably explains why I am seeing and hearing about more and more stumpsprouts achieving size and maturity to produce nuts. The tree I get my nuts from has very swollen cankers. Just curious - do you support ACCF's strategy over ACF's strategy for American Chestnut Reintroduction? If so, why?(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

 

[yoderjac]

Lateral roots appear to be developing fine in these jiffy pellets.

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Originally Posted by grapevine
This probably explains why I am seeing and hearing about more and more stumpsprouts achieving size and maturity to produce nuts. The tree I get my nuts from has very swollen cankers. Just curious - do you support ACCF's strategy over ACF's strategy for American Chestnut Reintroduction? If so, why?(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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100% American all the way!!! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
They have blight resistant chestnuts they are using and have had nuts achieve the same success...so I don't see the needs to introduce Chinese traits into the trees only to try to breed all that back out, but to try and keep the Chinese resistance.
How the blight affects them less and less each time is even more appealing...just take some integreated management to keep them alive in the process. I have heard a saying,"The easy way is not always the best way"...I apply that to the management of the American Chestnut.
People want instant gratification, overtime, its inevitable that the pure Americans will either develop reistance on their own, or have help from hypovirulence (maybe both). Just take time and some sweat to get the back IMO...even if it takes a few hundred years...we can get a lot of nuts for the critters and us to plant more of em. That is the route I chose to take. Then again, I am not even growing them in their native range (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Any risk in transplanting when they have 3-5" of top growth?
I have about 20 random empty slots between 8-18 cell rm tray, and want to consolidate them all to free up some room under the lights for another tray.

Anyone have an idea about what's going on here, or if its a concern?
About 10 seem to have blacker crispy tips on the head of the top growth then seem to be almost stumpsouting?
I just raised the lights up by about 4" thinking that might be it? Watering too much?

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Originally Posted by bigeight
I just raised the lights up by about 4" thinking that might be it? Watering too much?
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They have PLENTY of moisture from what I see there, more than enough actually.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
They have PLENTY of moisture from what I see there, more than enough actually.
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I had just watered them right before the pic. You think over watering would do that to the tips? I have been letting them totally dry out before re-watering. I could wait another day or two after noticing them being dried out?

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Originally Posted by bigeight
I had just watered them right before the pic. You think over watering would do that to the tips? I have been letting them totally dry out before re-watering. I could wait another day or two after noticing them being dried out?
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Those tips have died and they will resprout at the base or first leaf node. For me it happens more with Chinese than enything else. Don't know what causes it. I usually end up culling them at the end of the growing season because they seem to lag behind the rest.

I have had quite a few do that this year, ended up culling most of them. I have kept a few that snapped out of it and started growing again in a branched form. In the end I will probably cull all of the ones the have done that though, growth on them just doesn't compare to the ones that haven't.
I really don't know what caused it, even though I have a few theories. I do think it is related to water in some way, but not sure about the mechanism. I waterered the exact same way I did for my Burs and Sawtooths and didn't have the problem there, but did with my Sauls. Probably too much water for the roots I think, or a maybe a fungus problem caused by too much water.

How come when this happens, they are SO FAR behind? They just started putting on top growth a week ago. Wouldn't the new sprout taking over be only that far behind? Or doesn't it work like that?

That is why I think it is a water/root mechanism.
If you think about it, what does the seed grow first? The root, right? So in my mind, if the root is damaged, that is where it is going to send all the nutrients for repair. Not the top growth. Therefore, top growth will stop or be limited untill the root system can repair itself. And if you keep doing the same thing that caused the damage in the first place, then how is it supposed to fix itself? Not a quick process, and by that time the tree is so far behind the others it can never catch up. Thats my theory.
I am learning so much this year growing these trees. Pretty crazy how different some of these things are from each other.

I've been growing Chestnuts for two years. Over watering has killed many of mine. If you can keep damaged trees alive, they'll recover when they're moved outside in the Summer, and they do best planted in a permanent location. Chestnuts are fast growers, so I never cull any of them.
When I water, I do it sparingly, and allow the soil to dry between watering. One good soaking will kill a potted Chestnut.

That sounds spot on Brad. I wasn't keeping mine too wet all the time, I think the problem was I would let them dry out pretty good, but then soak them. Like 4-5 days a week would be about right, but when I watered they would be too wet for a day or two. In fact, I really think I can trace most of my problems back to one particular 2 to 3 day period. I am watering more often with less volume now, and they seem to be doing much better. I have about half a dozen that probably need to go into bigger pots, but I am out of them for the moment. Not sure what I will do there.
Next year I would really like to try some Dunstans, if I could get a few from one of the forum members here.
I am trying to decide when I can plant this years crop out in their permenant location. Last freeze around here is usually mid to late April, occasionally earlier. By June it is hotter than Hades. I'm thinking about the first of March.

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Originally Posted by bigeight
How come when this happens, they are SO FAR behind? They just started putting on top growth a week ago. Wouldn't the new sprout taking over be only that far behind? Or doesn't it work like that?
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Why don't you grow them out and see how they develop. Keep us posted on the progress - that's how we all learn and get better. Good luck!

 

[yoderjac]

Will do(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) I'm not doing enough to be culling trees yet. Maybe next year(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I will keep you posted.

I received my chestnuts from Larry today. I plan on starting them like I have my acorns minus as much water. I put them in tupperware with fresh out of the bag Miracle Gro and did not add any water. I have 4 starting in Express 18 RMs and they are covered with saran wrap. Will this be ok for chestnuts? Here they are. That is a standard SD card in the pic for size comparison.

Those look nice mine should be here today.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Still looks good to me. If I was you i would put them in a ziploc bag/tupperwear container with some damp paper towels and keeping in an area that stays warm. I've had excellent success germinating the acorns and wildlife chesnuts in my other thread that way. Being in the sealed bag/container ensures a high moisture level and helps them to germinate.
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Good call!(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Checked them today 7 of them had come to life. Great advice, thanks.

In an 18 cell rm tray, how deep do you want to saturate the soil when you water?
I think that's what I am boogering up. I took out a double trunker to separate, and was amazed that the roots were almost al the way to the bottom with only a couple inches of top growth. So in my mind I thought I needed at least a little water all the way to the bottom. That's when I started getting crispy tips(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I received my American Chestnut seeds from Larry today. They look good! Here are 2 that have already began to germinate, I planted them both right away in rootmaker 18 express cells.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by bigeight
In an 18 cell rm tray, how deep do you want to saturate the soil when you water?
I think that's what I am boogering up. I took out a double trunker to separate, and was amazed that the roots were almost al the way to the bottom with only a couple inches of top growth. So in my mind I thought I needed at least a little water all the way to the bottom. That's when I started getting crispy tips(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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My goal when watering has to always been saturate the entire soil volume of the rootmaker cell (regardless of what size). They way i figured it was that the soil needs to be moist at the bottom in ortder for the root to grow down and out of the bottom openings in order to be air pruned.
I almost always notice the tap root grow out the bottom and be air pruned before I see any top growth. I will try and post pictures of that tonight.
Here are the american chestnuts that i got from larry, do these seem a little small or are they the right size?

 

[yoderjac]

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Here are the american chestnuts that i got from larry, do these seem a little small or are they the right size?
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They American's are smaller than the other varieties. I would imagine those are easier for a turkey to eat along with some songbirds as opposed to those massive Dunstan's...at least in the pics Chestnut Hill shows of the Dunstan's.
Some I got from the ACCF are not even the size of the quarter you have in your pic. Really depends on if they had 3 fertile nuts in the burr or not...singles will be larger than those with 3 per burr.
rrroae had a pic somewhere of an American Chestnut that had blighted, but was still producing some burs/nuts. Bears were getting to it tho and leaving their mark on the tree if I remember right.

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Originally Posted by CrazyED
I received my American Chestnut seeds from Larry today. They look good! Here are 2 that have already began to germinate, I planted them both right away in rootmaker 18 express cells.
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i am jealous of yours already spouting..(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
i have to sit and wait on mine to start...i still have 25-30 dunstuns that I have been waiting on for nearly 2 months on to start to sprout.. no fair..
Bryan

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
They American's are smaller than the other varieties. I would imagine those are easier for a turkey to eat along with some songbirds as opposed to those massive Dunstan's...at least in the pics Chestnut Hill shows of the Dunstan's.
Some I got from the ACCF are not even the size of the quarter you have in your pic. Really depends on if they had 3 fertile nuts in the burr or not...singles will be larger than those with 3 per burr.
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Just thought I'd share the pic I took last week of the American's I received from Larry also, along side some of the Dunstans I still had in the fridge. I was amazed at how much smaller the Americans were. The Americans I got all appeared to be very round like only 1 nut per bur. Do Americans typically produce multiple nuts per bur?

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Originally Posted by THERAPY
Do Americans typically produce multiple nuts per bur?
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Yes, if they all get pollinated they will.

With top growth like this, I should just take a pair of snippers and clip the smallest of the two sprouts? Or should I wait till they get a little bigger and put on a couple more leaves to ensure survival?

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Originally Posted by THERAPY
Just thought I'd share the pic I took last week of the American's I received from Larry also, along side some of the Dunstans I still had in the fridge. I was amazed at how much smaller the Americans were. The Americans I got all appeared to be very round like only 1 nut per bur. Do Americans typically produce multiple nuts per bur?
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Are you sure those aren't Chinkapins? Chinkapins are small chestnts, with one nut per bur.

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Originally Posted by brushpile
Are you sure those aren't Chinkapins? Chinkapins are small chestnts, with one nut per bur.
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That's what I was thinking. The nut have the shine and color of the chinkapins. One but per burr sounds like them.

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Originally Posted by NH Mountains
That's what I was thinking. The nut have the shine and color of the chinkapins. One but per burr sounds like them.
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I suspect they may be Chinese or some other asian Chinkapin.

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Originally Posted by brushpile
Are you sure those aren't Chinkapins? Chinkapins are small chestnts, with one nut per bur.
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Those are the biggest chinquapin seeds I have seen yet if they are getting close to quarter size. Most I have seen are about dime size or so.
Here is another pic of American Chestnut seeds and their size with a nickel.

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Originally Posted by brushpile
Are you sure those aren't Chinkapins? Chinkapins are small chestnts, with one nut per bur.
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I don't have any chestnuts on our property currently so I'm not sure, but thats about to change in the next couple of months.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) Will have 100 Allegheny Chinquapin, 25 Chinese Chestnut, about 100-200 Dunstan Chestnut, and hopefully 12 American Chestnut.
I googled Allegheny Chinquapin and found several pics. I tried to post some here but can't figure out how. One pic had a dime next to the Chinquapin's and the dime was bigger than them. The other pic I came across was from the ACF and had 2 each of Allegheny, American, and Chinese. The Chinese appear to be almost twice the size of the American, and the American appear almost twice the size of the Allegheny.
In the pic I posted, the Americans look dark and shiny but that was from the liquid/gel that Larry had added to them before shipping, I guess since I got 12 that had already germinated. Looking back at the other pics from those that ordered from Larry, it appears others hadn't germinated as of the time he shipped to them. I did request the verification he said he had, and I got the same email letemgrow has posted where they were verified as American by Dr. White from the ACF.
After the quick research I did, I would say I am 95% sure the are not Allegheney Chinquapins, and also 95% sure they are true American. as they appear the same as all the pics I see of American. Guess we'll see in a month or so hopefully once they have some top growth, especially if they grow as quick as the 6 week old Dunstans I have growing.
These 2 are the first Dunstans that geminated for me the middle of January and went into Rootmaker 18s then. Moved them to the gallon rootmakers the day the pic was taken.

Hey guys I haven't been on in a while but I've been catching up the last week or so. Anyway I found this article about the blight resistant American chestnuts the acf have been working on. <http://m.outdoornews.com/mobile/penn...cd91d99c9.html
The growth you guys are getting on your chestnuts and acorns are awesome!

 

[yoderjac]

I will try and get some pictures of the chestnuts that I've got growing so you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong. These suckers are growing quicker than weeds. I planted around the 3rd of Feb., and I've got to raise the height of my light this afternoon. Some closing in on 2 ft. tall. I wish everything I planted would grow this good. I hope next year to find someone who has Dunstans and get a few nuts from them to compare to the chinesee too. Thanks for all the post, I've learned alot.

What height/size are you guys transplanting them out of the 18 cell trays and into bigger containers?
Also, can some one answer my clipping question from my pic I posted? (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

This is Larry the person who has sold seeds to a number of forum members. I have really enjoyed reading the posts here. It's really great to find so many people interested in growing chestnut trees! I want to comment on the nuts. My trees have three seeds per bur. Sometimes two of the seeds, usually the outside seeds are shrivelled because they didn't get fertilized, and, hence, the good seed is rounded. I do, as you would expect, have many seeds that are flat, particularly the outside two seeds (the center seed is still usually round). I only occasionally stick in one or two of the flat ones in a batch of 12 seeds because most buyers have never seen real American chestnut seeds and may feel there is something wrong with the flat ones (of course, shape makes no difference!). I also have a few bigger seeds and many, many smaller ones.

Welcome to the forum Larry, glad to have you here! Any experience you can share here will always be appreciated. Thanks for the chestnuts (matt in milwaukee)

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Originally Posted by indianasam44
This is Larry the person who has sold seeds to a number of forum members. I have really enjoyed reading the posts here. It's really great to find so many people interested in growing chestnut trees! I want to comment on the nuts. My trees have three seeds per bur. Sometimes two of the seeds, usually the outside seeds are shrivelled because they didn't get fertilized, and, hence, the good seed is rounded. I do, as you would expect, have many seeds that are flat, particularly the outside two seeds (the center seed is still usually round). I only occasionally stick in one or two of the flat ones in a batch of 12 seeds because most buyers have never seen real American chestnut seeds and may feel there is something wrong with the flat ones (of course, shape makes no difference!). I also have a few bigger seeds and many, many smaller ones.
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Glad you chimed in Larry!! Care to share some pics of your trees?

Welcome Larry. I just bought some of the chesnuts from you, and can't wait to get them.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Here are the american chestnuts that i got from larry, do these seem a little small or are they the right size?
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Those are good sized for American Chestnuts.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
Glad you chimed in Larry!! Care to share some pics of your trees?
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I could post some here but the &quot;insert image&quot; only allows a URL which means the pictures have to exist on a web site somewhere (?) which I don't have. Is there another way since clearly people have posted pictures here? I do have a bunch of pictures on a Hotmail Skydrive which I'm more than happy to share but it requires me to provide access through your email address with, unfortunately, a caveat. You will get thumbnails of the pictures in the returned email but to access the originals you need to have signed into a hotmail account (anybody's)! If you can and want to do this send me your email address at <lawrence_samuelson@hotmail.com (underscore between first and last name).

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Originally Posted by indianasam44
I could post some here but the &quot;insert image&quot; only allows a URL which means the pictures have to exist on a web site somewhere (?) which I don't have. Is there another way since clearly people have posted pictures here? I do have a bunch of pictures on a Hotmail Skydrive which I'm more than happy to share but it requires me to provide access through your email address with, unfortunately, a caveat. You will get thumbnails of the pictures in the returned email but to access the originals you need to have signed into a hotmail account (anybody's)! If you can and want to do this send me your email address at <lawrence_samuelson@hotmail.com (underscore between first and last name).
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I already have the hotmail link you gave me...I will save them to my photobucket account and post them up for all to see.
Phil

 

[yoderjac]

Here they are:

Some more:

Seedlings from the trees.

Awesome pics!

Very nice. Wish we could grow them like that here in PA.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
I already have the hotmail link you gave me...I will save them to my photobucket account and post them up for all to see.
Phil
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Thanks Phil. A point of interest. In the picture with the nuts. The two in the upper left-hand corner have been partially eaten by bluejays. Other times when not eating at the tree, the bluejays would carry the nuts off by holding onto the pollen tubes (I don't know the botanical name for the thing that sticks out the end of the nut.) and flying away. I would discover dropped nuts scattered about on the ground long distances from the trees. Usually when I found them they had had sufficient time to dry out and would no linger sink in water, so they were probably not viable. I've had a very few trees actually volunteer in the yard but not many.

Welcome to the forum, Larry.
Your tree or trees look great...
Thanks for offering up your info here...we will enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by grapevine
<http://acffarms.org/papers/Growing%2...structions.pdf
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Has anyone had any luck getting their chestnuts started in the potting mix that is recommended in the link? Basically it's 1 part each of perlite, vermiculite, and ground peat moss.
Also, the info in the link indicates that the nuts should be planted 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the mix but I see a number of pictures in this thread where the nuts appear to be just about on top. Which way is better?

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Originally Posted by escpen
Has anyone had any luck getting their chestnuts started in the potting mix that is recommended in the link? Basically it's 1 part each of perlite, vermiculite, and ground peat moss.
Also, the info in the link indicates that the nuts should be planted 1/2 to 1 inch deep in the mix but I see a number of pictures in this thread where the nuts appear to be just about on top. Which way is better?
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Not sure about the soil mix, I am really new to this as well.
When I do them next year I am going to plant them so the very top of the nut is level with the top of the soil. The ones that I laid directly on top of the soil the root acted like a kick stand and lifted the nut almost straight up. Also some germinated, then stalled. I don't think there was enough moisture to keep them going because there was not enough soil to hold the moisture right where you expected the root to come out. I eventually got them back going from some helpful tips from forum members, but they were about 2 weeks behind the ones I pressed deeper.
Just my experience so far.

Going on vacation for 10 days. Think the trees should be good without water for that long if I give em' a good soak before I leave?

Anybody got any idea or suggestions what's causing this to happen to my Dunstans?
It was fine on 2/25 then I found this on 2/27. Since then I've had 3 others break off and 3 or 4 more that have the enlarged stem at the base but currently 6-7&quot; tall. The base of the stem seems to be enlarged on the ones that break. In the same pic the cell behind and to the right the base of the stem was enlarged but it continues to grow well as of now and is 12-13&quot; tall.

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Originally Posted by THERAPY
Anybody got any idea or suggestions what's causing this to happen to my Dunstans?
It was fine on 2/25 then I found this on 2/27. Since then I've had 3 others break off and 3 or 4 more that have the enlarged stem at the base but currently 6-7&quot; tall. The base of the stem seems to be enlarged on the ones that break. In the same pic the cell behind and to the right the base of the stem was enlarged but it continues to grow well as of now and is 12-13&quot; tall.
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Could a critter have got in there and nipped them off?

Do you have a fan on those seedlings? If so, how strong? Only thing i can think of would be critters or too strong of a fan. Let us know if you find out what is going on.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Do you have a fan on those seedlings? If so, how strong? Only thing i can think of would be critters or too strong of a fan. Let us know if you find out what is going on.
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Thanks guys.
I do have a small 6&quot; greenhouse fan set on low that is on the same timer as my lights, but its not positioned to blow on the seedlings. Have it aimed at the front of the enclosure to try and circulate the air. The seedlings only have a slight movement when the fan is on, but could possibly be what caused the breakage. I do also run a small heater in the enclosure on a thermostat to maintain 71-73 degrees. The heater has a fan that blows but is below all the seedlings and produces no visible movement of leaves when it is running.
99% sure its not critters as my setup is in my garage. (maybe I need to set up a trail cam or 2 in the enclosure just to make sure (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) )
My thought is the breakage occurs from the stem being weakened for some reason at the base where it is enlarged. Thought there might be an easy answer of what causes the base of the stem to become enlarged that someone else had experienced like watering too much/little, potting mix, or fungus or disease.
This is another Dunstan that had the enlarged stem base and I took a pic the same day I found the first one broken off. It too has now broken off just at the top of the enlaged base. When I found it broken off I cut it back almost to where the top growth started from roots to see if it will take off again.
Any other thoughts?

 

[yoderjac]

Damping-off
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_off
Unfortunately I only know how to recognize it, not to cure. Hopefully someone will chime in with some good advice on how to prevent/cure it.

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Originally Posted by johnrpb
Damping-off
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_off
Unfortunately I only know how to recognize it, not to cure. Hopefully someone will chime in with some good advice on how to prevent/cure it.
==================================
Thanks johnrpb! I agree with you. I am new to all of this growing seedlings, but have learned alot here in the last several months since grapevine started this thread and your oak thread. I do recall reading a bit about damping off sometime in the last 3 months and that was my first thought when I started thinking about what was going on with them, but have never had any experience with it.
Think I have figured out what is causing it also. I had a bale of peat that has been outside since last year and was damp inside. Was mixing a little of it in with the miracle gro potting mix I have been using when I first got started thinking I was helping things and figured it couldn't hurt. But now doesn't seem like such a great idea. Figure the fungus that causes damping off was in that bale of peat. I will be getting rid of the remaining peat and the seedlings that show the symptoms. Hopefully that will fix future issues. Luckily I haven't used any of the peat for a couple of weeks.
Just thought I'd share a pic of the American Chestnuts from indianasam44 aka Larry that I planted 2/23. (in Miracle gro only thank goodness!)

Although the breaks look mechanical, I'd have to agree that it is damping off. I have learned more about this the hard way this season as well - bottom line - go easy on the watering and use sterile growing mix. I had 2 trays of Nebraska DCO's that molded over the winter in jiffy forestry pellets. I discarded the acorns, cleaned off the mold and planted sawtooth oak acorns and red oak acorns. At the same time I also planted sawtooth and red oak in fresh jiffy pellets and also rootmakers with coir/promix. EVERY Red and Sawtooth in the old pellets damped off, the root tip simply turned brown and would not grow. EVERY sawtooth and red in the fresh pellets and rootmakers are growing vigorously. Therapy - those Americans are looking good!

i think i have found the other extreme or a new problem.. had 3 dunstons in rootmaker bags inside under lights growing that I bought from chestnut hill nursery.. the were groing find. soil moisture look fine.. one night noticed new growth was currled slightly and appeared drier.. next day leaf tips on one new branch had developed a black tips.. other branches on tree appear to be doing fine and improved appearance after watering.
will post pics tonight if things are not fixed/improved with water..
Bryan

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Originally Posted by bbarrett
i think i have found the other extreme or a new problem.. had 3 dunstons in rootmaker bags inside under lights growing that I bought from chestnut hill nursery.. the were groing find. soil moisture look fine.. one night noticed new growth was currled slightly and appeared drier.. next day leaf tips on one new branch had developed a black tips.. other branches on tree appear to be doing fine and improved appearance after watering.
will post pics tonight if things are not fixed/improved with water..
Bryan
==================================
When it comes to the 1-gallon RM bags, I find that they may need watered once a week until the seedling gets big. Now if its 90 degrees out and they are 2 feet tall, they will need it every day.

these are in 3 gallon bags... i thought they had enough watter.. maybe the new root tips hit a dry spot in the bag somewhere..
seems to have improved with water.. but time will tell.

Transplanted one of my wildlife chesnuts into a 5&quot; roottrapper bags this morning. It has alreayd put on a ton of growth, cant wait to see how big it's going to get now that it's in the bag.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by THERAPY
....
Just thought I'd share a pic of the American Chestnuts from indianasam44 aka Larry that I planted 2/23. (in Miracle gro only thank goodness!)
==================================
Those are looking great!
Can't wait to get mine.

Mine should be in from Larry any day now. Can't wait to compare them to the ACCF and Penn State American chestnuts.

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Originally Posted by rrroae
Those are looking great!
Can't wait to get mine.
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Thanks rrroae!
It still amazes me how things change in a just a week. These Americans are growin quick!
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This is a tray of Dunstans that fell victim to what appears to be Damping off, that johnrpb and grapevine help me diagnose(Thanks again!). I moved each one to this six pack away from my healthy ones, and cut the stem off as low as I could. Don't know if they will ever amount to anything, but thought I would use it as a learning experience. 4 of the 6 have already started putting on some top growth again. The one on the right that is the tallest was the one I posted a week or two ago that had broken off. We'll see what happens in a month or two.
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I was thinking of consolidating some of my trays to get them acclimated to the sun.
I have a lot of different stages of trees, the ones with legitimate leaves I am taking in and out from the north side of the house.
Is there any reason I shouldn't leave the ones outside (protected) that don't have leaves yet?
Some that dampened off, are stump sprouting again, but don't really have leaves yet, and I had about 20 that are just starting to split to produce top growth that were late bloomers.
Can I leave those ones outside in full sun right now? Or is there any acclimation process for leafless ones??? Or start on the north side of the house???
Seems like a no Brainer, but I figures I would double check(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Here are a few pics of one of my American Chestnuts from Larry.
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Another pic, same tree
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A few others coming to life.
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I transplanted one of my chestnuts from a 18 cell rootmaker to a 1 gallon pot. I was struggling getting it out of the rootmaker so I was sort of slamming it against my hand trying to get it to pop out and the chesnut became detached from the seedling. As of now, it doesnt appear to have any impact on the seedling, but it might be too early to tell. The seedling was about 12 inches with some decent size leaves.
Can anyone comment on whether the early detachment of the nut from the seeding will have any negative effect on the seeding's growth?
Is there a better way to get the seedling out of these rootmakers? I dont think my soil was overly dry or wet.
Thanks

Quote:
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Originally Posted by True
Is there a better way to get the seedling out of these rootmakers? I dont think my soil was overly dry or wet.
Thanks
==================================
Exactly why I like the accelerator growing cells instead of the rootmakes....they fall out of them MUCh easier.

I usually just use a small tool and push from the bottom up just to help free it up. I haven't had any issues with trees getting stuck in rootmakers.

I believe once the tree is up and leafed out you can remove the nut.
Don't plant in the field with the nut attached, good chance you will lose the tree due to rodents digging up the whole works.

I was planning on planting in the field with the nut attached. thats the way nature does it. I plan on protecting my seedlings with a tube or cage of some sort as well.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by True
I transplanted one of my chestnuts from a 18 cell rootmaker to a 1 gallon pot. I was struggling getting it out of the rootmaker so I was sort of slamming it against my hand trying to get it to pop out and the chesnut became detached from the seedling. As of now, it doesnt appear to have any impact on the seedling, but it might be too early to tell. The seedling was about 12 inches with some decent size leaves.
Can anyone comment on whether the early detachment of the nut from the seeding will have any negative effect on the seeding's growth?
Is there a better way to get the seedling out of these rootmakers? I dont think my soil was overly dry or wet.
Thanks
==================================
Simply squeeze the sides of the containers a little bit to loosen, make sure there are no roots protruding out the bottom and side slots that could get hung up, and ......pull. Should be a nice mass of roots. If the soil falls away, you are moving them too soon.

Been awhile since I posted some pics, but my wildlife chestnuts are now growing completely outside and getting a several hours of full sun every day. Here are my 10 best ones that I am keeping. One is just running away from the others, interesting to see different growth forms among them. Some came from big nuts, some small nuts, whatever. They are doing well and I am proud of them. I probably won't plant any out untill this fall.

How are everyones American Chestnuts doing that they bought from Larry (ebay)? I planted them all shortly after I got them. I bought a dozen. I managed to get 3 very nice trees and one is still a work in progress. The others seem to have not made it. I will try and get some updated pictures of the ones that are doing very well. Those ones are probably each around 8-9&quot; tall and look great. They are in 1 gallon rootmaker pots now.

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Originally Posted by CrazyED
How are everyones American Chestnuts doing that they bought from Larry (ebay)? I planted them all shortly after I got them. I bought a dozen. I managed to get 3 very nice trees and one is still a work in progress. The others seem to have not made it. I will try and get some updated pictures of the ones that are doing very well. Those ones are probably each around 8-9&quot; tall and look great. They are in 1 gallon rootmaker pots now.
==================================
I've got 11 growing as of now (i forgot to plant the last one), 7 in 18 cell rootmakers and 4 together in one large roottrapper bag since i ran out of 18 cells when planting those. They all seem to be growing faily well and about half have started their second growth flush. Need to transplant them into 1 gallons or roottrappers whenever i get a chance. Very happy overall with the chestnuts from Larry.

 

[yoderjac]

Hey John, sounds like you had a lot better luck than I did. I'm not really sure what went wrong on my end. I thought the conditions for all of them were the same in my setup.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrazyED
How are everyones American Chestnuts doing that they bought from Larry (ebay)? I planted them all shortly after I got them. I bought a dozen. I managed to get 3 very nice trees and one is still a work in progress. The others seem to have not made it. I will try and get some updated pictures of the ones that are doing very well. Those ones are probably each around 8-9&quot; tall and look great. They are in 1 gallon rootmaker pots now.
==================================
Mine are doing great. All have germinated and are just now sending up shoots.

Here are my Wildlife chestnuts. I think I took this about two weeks ago. All have sprouted now. I did have a few not sprout hence the various sizes. I need to start getting them a little sun. So far none of the ones I direct seeded last fall have came up. If they haven't sprouted by the end of the month these will get their spots.
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Originally Posted by innova
I believe once the tree is up and leafed out you can remove the nut.
Don't plant in the field with the nut attached, good chance you will lose the tree due to rodents digging up the whole works.
==================================
I would not remove the nut till it has spent all its energy. Even tho the seedling will have leaves, it looks to me that the nut is still helping them get started. If the nut is still yellow inside, I'd leave it on.

 

[yoderjac]

I've had 1 grow of the 20 I got from Larry. Not sure what's up. Planted them the same ways indoors that I do with oaks in miracle grow.

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Originally Posted by rrroae
I've had 1 grow of the 20 I got from Larry. Not sure what's up. Planted them the same ways indoors that I do with oaks in miracle grow.
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Mine came in and were not germinated, I put them in the fridge for a couple days, then out at room temp for a day and they were starting to pop open.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by rrroae
I've had 1 grow of the 20 I got from Larry. Not sure what's up. Planted them the same ways indoors that I do with oaks in miracle grow.
==================================
Did you put them in the fridge for cold stratification? I had over 400 chestnut seeds from Oikos and Empire. All but 6 have sprouted roots and the main trunk. They stayed in the fridge crisper since November. I took out 200 last week and the other 200 this past weekend. The remaining 6 look like they will probably sprout.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by letemgrow
Mine came in and were not germinated, I put them in the fridge for a couple days, then out at room temp for a day and they were starting to pop open.
==================================
That must of have been the problem. I put 10 nuts back in the fridge for the past 1 1/2 weeks so maybe I'll take those out and see what happens.

I have about 6 Americans that have sprouted from Larry and I have a couple approaching 8&quot; of top growth.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by rrroae
I've had 1 grow of the 20 I got from Larry. Not sure what's up. Planted them the same ways indoors that I do with oaks in miracle grow.
==================================
I'm sorry to hear this but I can't tell what your time frame is. The seeds were in the refrigerator (between 34 and 39 degrees) from the time I picked them off the ground until the time I shipped them so they should have been stratified. All seeds I ship pass the sink test, i.e. I never ship floaters. I get my seeds to germinate by splashing a little water into the baggie making sure they are well moistened and then resealing. I keep them in a dry sink in a back room where the temperature varies between 55 and 75 degrees. Most seeds germinate in 6 to 14 days at a rate I estimate to be 80 to 90%. Once the radicle appears I pot them in MiracleGro Potting Mixture just under the surface and keep them in the same room as above. The shoots appear in two-and-a-half to four weeks. The time from seed to shoot is thus three to six weeks. My experience has been that bigger seeds take longer to germinate than smaller seeds. I am certainly hoping the seeds you re-refrigerated germinate.

Larry I will hopefully get another dozen or 2 from you next winter. If you think of it try and come around to the forum when you have some forsale. Let us know when they are ready.

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Originally Posted by indianasam44
I get my seeds to germinate by splashing a little water into the baggie making sure they are well moistened and then resealing. I keep them in a dry sink in a back room where the temperature varies between 55 and 75 degrees. Most seeds germinate in 6 to 14 days at a rate I estimate to be 80 to 90%. Once the radicle appears I pot them in MiracleGro Potting Mixture just under the surface and keep them in the same room as above. The shoots appear in two-and-a-half to four weeks. The time from seed to shoot is thus three to six weeks. My experience has been that bigger seeds take longer to germinate than smaller seeds. I am certainly hoping the seeds you re-refrigerated germinate.
==================================
That's pretty much what I have done for all my acorns and chestnuts this year and I've had less than a dozen out of ~300 fail to germinate. From my experience the most important thing is to keep the moisture content consistent once they have begun to germinate until the radicle is longer than about 1/2 inch, this is fairly easy to do with a couple damp paper towels and a ziploc.
Larry,
Thanks again for the chestnuts, I'm looking forward to experiment with these on our farm. Even if these eventually get blight i'm hoping to learn the best way to plant/grow them so i'll be that much further up the learning curve when i can get blight resistant nuts,

Quote:
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Originally Posted by indianasam44
I'm sorry to hear this but I can't tell what your time frame is. The seeds were in the refrigerator (between 34 and 39 degrees) from the time I picked them off the ground until the time I shipped them so they should have been stratified. All seeds I ship pass the sink test, i.e. I never ship floaters. I get my seeds to germinate by splashing a little water into the baggie making sure they are well moistened and then resealing. I keep them in a dry sink in a back room where the temperature varies between 55 and 75 degrees. Most seeds germinate in 6 to 14 days at a rate I estimate to be 80 to 90%. Once the radicle appears I pot them in MiracleGro Potting Mixture just under the surface and keep them in the same room as above. The shoots appear in two-and-a-half to four weeks. The time from seed to shoot is thus three to six weeks. My experience has been that bigger seeds take longer to germinate than smaller seeds. I am certainly hoping the seeds you re-refrigerated germinate.
==================================
Larry, don't worry about it. With the success others have had, I'm sure it was something I did or just bad luck. Either way, I think it's really good of you to be selling these so cheap and hopefully we can get some Chestnuts growing.

Larry, johnrpb, NH Mountains,
How were you guys storing your chestnuts in the refrigerator for cold stratification? Did you just place the nuts in a ziploc or did you use some peat moss (the ground kind) or peat moss (the stringy kind)? Or some other method?
What do you do after two months of storage? Do you take them out and let them get room temperature in order to germinate or do you wait some more (perhaps weeks to months) so that they germinate while in storage?
Thanks in advance!

I store mine fresh fallen from the tree into sealed ziplock quart freezer bags with nothing else. I keep them in the vegetable-fruit drawer at the bottom of a Frigidaire &quot;Gallery&quot; refrigerator. The temperature is set for 39 degrees. I've monitered the temperature and I don't think it's ever gotten lower than 34 degrees. I keep them there until I sell them or get ready to germinate them and then I follow the procedure outlined above.
The following is interesting. I have a few very small nuts (the size of dimes and that's being generous) left over from the 2010 season. Last November I happened to open the freezer bag and discovered that five of them had half-inch root radicles! I planted them and eventually under grow lights they all grew to between 24 and 30 inches in height! I managed to kill two of them by overwatering but the other three I have hardened off and now put them outside each day in the sunshine. I'm waiting until the last frost-free date to plant them permanently outside. I also planted two more of these seeds March 24 of this year and one just two days ago poked a shoot out of the soil. The seed on the other has broken the surface but has no shoot yet. The point is these seeds are still viable after 17 months of storage using the method outlined above!

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by indianasam44
I store mine fresh fallen from the tree into sealed ziplock quart freezer bags with nothing else. I keep them in the vegetable-fruit drawer at the bottom of a Frigidaire &quot;Gallery&quot; refrigerator. The temperature is set for 39 degrees. I've monitered the temperature and I don't think it's ever gotten lower than 34 degrees. I keep them there until I sell them or get ready to germinate them and then I follow the procedure outlined above.
The following is interesting. I have a few very small nuts (the size of dimes and that's being generous) left over from the 2010 season. Last November I happened to open the freezer bag and discovered that five of them had half-inch root radicles! I planted them and eventually under grow lights they all grew to between 24 and 30 inches in height! I managed to kill two of them by overwatering but the other three I have hardened off and now put them outside each day in the sunshine. I'm waiting until the last frost-free date to plant them permanently outside. I also planted two more of these seeds March 24 of this year and one just two days ago poked a shoot out of the soil. The seed on the other has broken the surface but has no shoot yet. The point is these seeds are still viable after 17 months of storage using the method outlined above!
==================================
I too like to store my seeds right at 34 degrees. This keeps the oaks, chestnuts etc from putting on long taproots while in the fridge. Much easier to work with them when I go to plant them out at the farm, or in pots/rootmakers.

After fooling with DCO acorns in pots on the deck all last year I said I was done with that. But here I am again with 7 pots of indianasam's ebay chestnuts. They have all put up tops (no big leaves yet) but are sitting in the garage bending towards the light. Need to figure out how to keep the dang grey squirrels from destroying them when I set them outside - been there/seen that

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redonthehead
After fooling with DCO acorns in pots on the deck all last year I said I was done with that. But here I am again with 7 pots of indianasam's ebay chestnuts. They have all put up tops (no big leaves yet) but are sitting in the garage bending towards the light. Need to figure out how to keep the dang grey squirrels from destroying them when I set them outside - been there/seen that
==================================
May sound crazy, but I take mine to work with me so the squirrels do not get them during the day when I am gone. There are no squirrels where I work, so they get sun sitting on the trunk of my car.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by letemgrow
May sound crazy, but I take mine to work with me so the squirrels do not get them during the day when I am gone. There are no squirrels where I work, so they get sun sitting on the trunk of my car.
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your right! that does sound crazy(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by Redonthehead
your right! that does sound crazy(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Pretty much everyone in the office has asked me at some point what is going on. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
It works tho, 3 straight years without any squirrels getting them. I am ofer leaving them here at the house between the rodents/squirrels.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by CrazyED
How are everyones American Chestnuts doing that they bought from Larry (ebay)? I planted them all shortly after I got them. I bought a dozen. I managed to get 3 very nice trees and one is still a work in progress. The others seem to have not made it. I will try and get some updated pictures of the ones that are doing very well. Those ones are probably each around 8-9&quot; tall and look great. They are in 1 gallon rootmaker pots now.
==================================
I've had good luck with the Americans I got from indianasam. I received mine already germinated and planted them 2/23. I've had better than 90% success rate with them (so far). I moved 3 of them to 1 gallon rootmaker pots over the weekend and root system was looking good.
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These are 3 Dunstans that I direct seeded back in January that I haven't done anything to except spray some gly around a few weeks ago.
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Here are 3 of 4 of my American Chestnuts from Larry (Ebay). They are looking great.
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Here are the new arrivials from Larry, now we are waiting on rootmaker cells to show up. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Thought I would show some pics of some things I am doing. The first two are of six American Chestnut sprouts and one closeup from a direct seeding with seeds straight from the tree. I planted them in a spot where I'd had a peach tree. First I dug out all the feeder roots from nearby trees. Planted the seeds. Watered them. Covered them with 1-in chicken wire to discourage squirrels, then covered that with about 6-in of leaves. This location is in a area that I mow closely so there aren't any mice. I don't think the mulch is a good idea if there are rodents. I keep a circle of farm fence (with 2-ft high, 1-in chicken wire around the bottom) around everything to keep out deer and rabbits. We had the warmest winter on record so I think that helped survivability. I've tried direct seeding six times. Three have been successful. Two have been busts. The sixth was partially successful.

 

[yoderjac]

Most of these seedlings I started from germinated seeds in March. I use 32-oz yogurt containers with Miracle-Gro Potting Mixture. A half-dozen plants in back are actually from last year. They over-wintered in a back room I keep at 54 degrees. Unfortunately, they leafed out while we were still having freezing temperatures and now frosts, so I haven't been able to transplant them outside.

Here is some of my chestnuts.

This a one-year-old American Chestnut that I planted in my yard this spring to replace a 20-year-old Red Oak that a storm took out last summer. This sapling put on 30-inches of growth in a 32-oz yogurt container that I kept outside in my garden last year (along with about 30 others). It had lots of root growth but I did have to trim the tap root since it had curled a bit about the bottom of the container. I'm not worried about it because my two mature trees, which are doing spectacularly, were bare-root one-year-old saplings that had far poorer root systems than this one when I planted them. You can also see my anti-deer-rabbit system. I will need to expand the fence later in the year. I have always kept farm fence around my smaller fruit trees. My friends accuse me of running a tree prison!

That is a mix of the chinese chestnuts and some wildlife chestnuts.
The one on the left with the yard stick is a Chinese. On the far right is a wildlife chestnut.
A better pic with the flash on...

Now for the obsession picture....you guys did this to me...

Thayer, I have some Chestnuts that are taller, because I left the lights on 24/7. They'll have to be tubed, because they can barely stand under their own weight.
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Thayer,
That's a great picture. I don't feel so crazy anymore!

Is it too late to plant them? I see they are selling some on Ebay right now.... Could I grow them all summer and then plant in the fall? or next spring? I am very intrigued by this thread I just started reading this today!!

They can be planted well into June and you will get normal growth. Last year on June 4th I planted five 2010 ungerminated seeds in yogurt containers that I had sitting in my garden along with about 30 others with various stages of growth that I had started earlier, some much earlier. Three of the five germinated and by the end of the summer they had put on 24 to 30 inches of growth. At that point I couldn't distinguish them from the others! Under the right conditions these trees are capable of phenomenal growth. Of course, some will be duds; it just depends on their genetics.
I'm currently sold out of germinated seeds (poor planning!). I have a bunch more &quot;incubating&quot; but they won't be ready until the end of this week or the beginning of next week.

During the &quot;heat wave&quot; in March, probably around the 17th, I direct seeded a short row, about 10 feet, of germinated American Chestnut seeds in my garden as a test. The shoots are just now breaking the surface roughly 38 days later. Our average highs the last two weeks have been roughly 60 degrees and the average lows in the upper 30's. I have an electric fence directly around the area where the seeds are to discourage squirrels and raccoons, and a farm fence plus 1-in, 2-ft high chicken wire around the garden itself to discourage deer and rabbits. It's ugly but also added to the farm fence I have two rounds of clothes-line rope that appears (at least to a deer) to add an additional two feet in height. The plot itself is about 20 ft by 100 ft so it's not too large. In 22 years I've had exactly one deer jump the fence. The rest apparently are wimps, totally confused, or both!

Here are a couple American Chestnuts from Larry. These things have been doing very well with nice big leaves. They are getting into their 2nd flush as well.
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Looks good Ed. The seeds I recieved around the 4/19 are starting to do something big in the next week or so, the shell is spliting on afew of them.

I'm about to move some of my trees from rootmaker cells into 1 gallon rootmaker pots. How much sunlight would you recommend them getting?

I have mine outside in the 18 cell tray now and I plan on transplanting them to 1 gal pots when ready and leave outside.
I have been moving them back and forth to the porch when it rains, so they dont get washed out of the cells.
They are also covered with hardware cloth to protect them from theiving wildlife.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Is it good for seedling to get full sunlight all day, or do they need some shade?

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Originally Posted by cheyenne19
Is it good for seedling to get full sunlight all day, or do they need some shade?
==================================
I dont see why they cant get full sun. Looking at the previous posts the seeds are indoors, but I think that is due to the time of year that the other folks are starting them.
The things I worry about is a sticky pawed/beaked critter getting them or getting hammered by rain if I dont move em under some shelter. As for the critters I put hardware cloth/screen over the trays and will protect accordingly when the get any top growth to them.
Keep in mind that these comments are coming from a greenhorn tree from seed grower (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED). Please if any of the experienced growers can keep us straight please do, thanks again for starting the subjucts on trees from seeds.

For chestnuts (American at least) I am not sure full, all day sun is the best. Their preferred site is full morning sun and afternoon shade.
Pretty sure the new growth at my farm last year was burnt up by the 90 degree temps they say mid-day to early afternoon.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
For chestnuts (American at least) I am not sure full, all day sun is the best. Their preferred site is full morning sun and afternoon shade.
Pretty sure the new growth at my farm last year was burnt up by the 90 degree temps they say mid-day to early afternoon.
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good to know. do you remember if it was right out of the shell new growth or growth from 1st -2nd leave sprout?
I would hate to ruin a collection of seeds from indianasam44

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Originally Posted by mark1427
good to know. do you remember if it was right out of the shell new growth or growth from 1st -2nd leave sprout?
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This was on a 5 year old sapling. It could have been caused by something else, but it was right during a VERY hot, dry spell. All the new growth on that sapling looked the same so it did not appear to be insects/disesase doing it. The growth seemed fine after that spell passed and the sapling put on more growth later too.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by letemgrow
This was on a 5 year old sapling. It could have been caused by something else, but it was right during a VERY hot, dry spell. All the new growth on that sapling looked the same so it did not appear to be insects/disesase doing it. The growth seemed fine after that spell passed and the sapling put on more growth later too.
==================================
Right I got cha. could it have been tring to blight that young? I could see the heat stressing them though.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by mark1427
Right I got cha. could it have been tring to blight that young? I could see the heat stressing them though.
==================================
No blight could be found anywhere on the tree and it looked great later on. The high heat is all I could attribute that too.

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Originally Posted by cheyenne19
Is it good for seedling to get full sunlight all day, or do they need some shade?
==================================
You've asked the $64 question! I don't know the definitive answer but I can pass on my observations. My two original trees were planted as bare-root, one-year-olds in locations that received full, all-day sun and, of course, now are huge. But, I can't remember how they did the first few years. Seedlings that I've started in my garden as direct seedings rarely put on more than 12 inches of growth the first year and rarely exceed 30 inches in three years. The leaves tend to be somewhat smaller. They only get afternoon sun since they are shaded by a tree line in the morning. At least a dozen plants I had in pots in my garden last year under the same conditions put on 30 inches of growth the first year. They were grown bunched together and partially shaded each other. Their leaves tended to be normal size. I kept them well watered. Three plants that volunteered in my yard took two years to put on 14 inches of growth; two of them were in partial shade from a silver maple most of the time. They all had small leaves and short stems and had direct competition from grass (and the silver maple) for moisture and nutrients. Five plants I started last December inside, in pots put on 30 inches of growth under grow lights. They had normal size, dark green leaves just like Ed's pictures above. The seedlings I now have started in pots are getting direct, mid-day sun on my deck and have growth resembling what I've observed in my direct seeded plants - somewhat smaller leaves and shorter stems. My conclusion is, not surprisingly, that the leaves tend to be bigger and stem growth longer in lower light conditions and that nutrient levels play a big role in overall growth. Ultimately, it seems logical that nut production will require lots of sunlight, moisture, and nutrients.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by indianasam44
You've asked the $64 question! I don't know the definitive answer but I can pass on my observations. My two original trees were planted as bare-root, one-year-olds in locations that received full, all-day sun and, of course, now are huge. But, I can't remember how they did the first few years. Seedlings that I've started in my garden as direct seedings rarely put on more than 12 inches of growth the first year and rarely exceed 30 inches in three years. The leaves tend to be somewhat smaller. They only get afternoon sun since they are shaded by a tree line in the morning. At least a dozen plants I had in pots in my garden last year under the same conditions put on 30 inches of growth the first year. They were grown bunched together and partially shaded each other. Their leaves tended to be normal size. I kept them well watered. Three plants that volunteered in my yard took two years to put on 14 inches of growth; two of them were in partial shade from a silver maple most of the time. They all had small leaves and short stems and had direct competition from grass (and the silver maple) for moisture and nutrients. Five plants I started last December inside, in pots put on 30 inches of growth under grow lights. They had normal size, dark green leaves just like Ed's pictures above. The seedlings I now have started in pots are getting direct, mid-day sun on my deck and have growth resembling what I've observed in my direct seeded plants - somewhat smaller leaves and shorter stems. My conclusion is, not surprisingly, that the leaves tend to be bigger and stem growth longer in lower light conditions and that nutrient levels play a big role in overall growth. Ultimately, it seems logical that nut production will require lots of sunlight, moisture, and nutrients.
==================================
Thanks for the response Larry. I got your seeds in root maker cells last week. Some of my older seedlings are about to get moved up to 1 gallon pots. My two choices were either early to mid day sun, or mid day to late evening sun. My guess is that early would be better than the hot dry afternoon sun. Our rice is different though. It prefers warm surface water more than cool well water.
I started growing oaks indoors last year. I had poor success when I moved them outside. It seemed that they weren't prepared for all the wind we get here, and most of them got wind burned.

Cheyenne,
Another option might be to hang a plastic tarp up over them. I've done that. It hangs about 6ft off the ground above them. Gives them plenty of sunlight but, prevents them from getting burned. I remove the tarp after a couple weeks and then let them have full sun. Seems to work for me. It all depends on your location and how much sun you get throughout the day. I also use the tarp to prevent them from getting deluged with rain. I had a few drown last year.

Just finished reading this thread from start to finish ..all 30 something pages. This is going to be a novice question. The blight is just ever present in the northeast, I guess. I would love to try a few of these americans butI am concerned if it is not It may spread to my Collosal X okei's.
Indianasam...Have any of the decendants of your trees blighted that you know of? Seems like you must have quite a few out there. Just curious

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Just finished reading this thread from start to finish ..all 30 something pages. This is going to be a novice question. The blight is just ever present in the northeast, I guess. I would love to try a few of these americans butI am concerned if it is not It may spread to my Collosal X okei's.
Indianasam...Have any of the decendants of your trees blighted that you know of? Seems like you must have quite a few out there. Just curious
==================================
The blight has hit MI already and other species carry the blight, but show no or little effects of it. The blight is not a death sentence to any chestnut that gets it, they resprout and do it all over again and grow much faster after the blighted stem/stump dies.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Just finished reading this thread from start to finish ..all 30 something pages. This is going to be a novice question. The blight is just ever present in the northeast, I guess. I would love to try a few of these americans butI am concerned if it is not It may spread to my Collosal X okei's.
Indianasam...Have any of the decendants of your trees blighted that you know of? Seems like you must have quite a few out there. Just curious
==================================
The short answer is no but an explanation is required. In 2008 I gave away 50 two-yr old trees at an Arbor day event, in 2009-2010 I sold my first ungerminated seeds on eBay, in 2010 I gave away 30 two-yr old trees at the same Arbor day event and in 2010-2011 sold both ungerminated and germinated seeds on eBay, and in 2011-2012 sold ungerminated and germinated seeds on eBay. This represents several hundreds of people mostly scattered over the Eastern part of the USA from the Rockies to the Atlantic Ocean and Louisiana to Canada who have either gotten trees or seeds. The amazing thing is that I rarely hear from any of them! I do have a several return buyers so some of the seeds must be becoming trees. One gentleman who lives in Western NY east of Buffalo has purchased 100 to 200 seeds every year for the last three years and is trying to develop a blight-resistant tree. He has not reported to me that any of the trees have the blight but the oldest trees would be only three-years old so he probably can't tell yet. One of my friends planted two of my trees in an old apple orchard three miles east of my place near two huge what I believe to be Chinese Chestnuts. They are now four-years old. I inspected them just last week and they have no blight (one is well over 12-ft tall!). The few buyers who have sent me pictures have not reported any blight but again the trees would be very young. I know of a handful of chestnut trees older than mine scattered around the county that show no evidence of the blight but I don't know their heritages. I believe that AFC/Purdue has a joint American Chestnut breading test plot in Kosciusko County (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) about 50 miles SW of me. They have introduced the blight while testing their trees for resistance which I find a little disconcerting but it's for a good cause. I don't believe that the American Chestnut was ever native in NE Indiana. Before the white man came NW Ohio, NE Indiana and parts of southern Michigan was a giant swamp which is not prime chestnut habitat. Only remnants of the swamp and lots of lakes exist today.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the reply. One last question. Do you know of any with chestnuts on them. Principally those two your friend planted and how long it took to make nuts. Do you have any seeds left?

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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Thanks for the reply. One last question. Do you know of any with chestnuts on them. Principally those two your friend planted and how long it took to make nuts. Do you have any seeds left?
==================================
None have chestnuts on them, they are are way too young. Mine didn't bare until they were at least 15 years old and then not very many. They've only started to have sizeable numbers in the last 5 years. (My trees are 24 years old.) I've read on ACF web sites that they've been able to &quot;force&quot; nut bearing in young chestnut trees by over-fertilizing with phosphorus. I'm not a plant biologist so I don't know how this works. I do know that fertilizing definitely increases nut yield.
As far as seed availability is concerned I've run into a problem with eBay sales where I get bidders who don't pay. I can't ship without payment so I'm committed to keeping a perishable inventory to cover the sale in case they do pay! I've got a bunch of seeds &quot;incubating&quot; but for some reason they seem reluctant to germinate which make me reluctant to sell any of my remaining ungerminated seeds. I've just checked and I could probably scrounge together 6 germinated seeds.

Ill take'em

I recieved 12 (unsprouted) chestnuts from Indianasam44 (eBay) on April 4th. Planted them April 5th, in 16&quot; Blue-X tree tubes filled with potting soil. The tree tubes were just 48 inchers cut in thirds. These should allow at least a 15&quot; tap root. I kept them in the garage through alot of cold, near freezing weather, which likely delayed sprouting.
As of May 9th, all 12 have sprouted, so today I moved them outside to the east facing balcony. The hardware cloth cage should keep birds out, no danger of rodents up there. End of summer, early fall, what ever survives, will be planted in their permanant field location.
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The seedlings look really good! Thanks for the feedback. That's what makes this forum great. I rarely ever hear back from any of the people who purchase seeds from me so I have no idea about success rate.

What does everyone prefer to get their nuts started the rootmakers or jiffys. It seems that the Jiffys might allow them to grow longer for a better root prune. I got to make an order so I can get some chestnuts rolling

Here's my first chinese chestnut planting. Planted in 18 cell trays on St. Patty's Day. There from Worththewait. Ive learned allot on here what to do and not to do, Thanks.
Erik

Americans are in the 18cells, with gallon r. M. Pots standing by. I know I read earlier that someone had perfected the amount and frequency of fertilizer once they get going, but I don't think it was listed.

Below is a picture updating the seedling growth in my direct seeding experiment of American Chestnuts described at the bottom of page 32 of this thread. I have watered twice, once recently with Miracle-Gro fertilizer for acid-loving-plants. We've had 2 inches of rain since the last picture (roughly half of normal). The growth shown is typical for what I've seen in the past for full sun seedlings. All ten seeds germinated. The last, in the front and to the right, have just recently appeared and are very small. The seedlings are clearly too close together but I plan on transplanting them next spring.

Below is a picture showing young catkin growth on my biggest American Chestnut tree. I don't remember the catkins showing up this early but I never paid that much attention before.

Below is a great shot of full-sun American Chestnut leaves.

Beautiful trees. Too bad the woods aren't still full of them.

Anybody have updates on their trees. I just saw my first sprout from the Larry's americans this morning. I got going late but it would be nice to know how everyone else is fairing

 

[yoderjac]

I have 4 that are coming along very nice. The leaves on the one are massive, probably close to 12&quot; long. The tree itself is probably 12&quot; tall as well. I will try and get some pics. I have moved all of my oaks and chestnuts from seed outside as of last weekend. They are protected (caged with chicken wire) and partially shaded as well.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Anybody have updates on their trees. I just saw my first sprout from the Larry's americans this morning. I got going late but it would be nice to know how everyone else is fairing
==================================
My best are 8&quot; tall now from Larry.

I'll try and post some pictures tonight but mine are about 6&quot; tall and budded out. They should be starting their next growth flush over the next few days.

When did you guys put them in the dirt. Trying to gauge if I am doing alright or not.

Sometime during the first couple of weeks of March. Sounds like you're doing everything right.

I put mine in about 2 weeks ago. I also bought a dozen bareroot wildlife chestnuts from empire. The roots were not that thick so I put the ones with smaller tap roots into the 18 cells for a while see If I can build them up. The rest I put into root maker pots and two right in the ground. Hopefully by next year I will see what faired the best and share my results. I can't figure how to upload pics to this forum to save my life..but I will keep trying.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
When did you guys put them in the dirt. Trying to gauge if I am doing alright or not.
==================================
A few of mine were already sprouting when I got them on 2/19. Those were planted right away.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Anybody have updates on their trees. I just saw my first sprout from the Larry's americans this morning. I got going late but it would be nice to know how everyone else is fairing
==================================
I received my seeds a little after you. I haven't had any sprout yet, I hope it wasn't to late!

Here's a picture of some of the chestnuts I got from Larry on Feb 19th. They were started in Rootmaker 18 cell express cells before moving to 1 gallon rootmakers. I moved them outside last weekend, they are in a chicken wire cage in my garden that is covered with a bunch of spruce limbs so the sun doesnt hit them too hard.
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Here's one of my dunstan seedlings for comparison. I Have 3 of these growing in 7 gallon roottrapper bags.
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[yoderjac]

Pretty hardy looking. I hope I have that to look forward to. They dont look very tall but I am sure time will fix that. How come you have them shielded from the sun, is full sun bad news for these little guys

Some of my oaks that I put right in to direct sunlight got sunburned. These ones ill leave in here a few weeks before moving to full direct sunlight.
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Those Dunstans look like plain old Chinese Chestnuts to me. Mine look the same way. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is such a thing as a bad chestnut, but I'm beginning to think that they are being over hyped. What is the &quot;extra&quot; value of an American cross if it expresses none of the American traits? Kinda like my beagle/fox terrier mix. he's a great dog but I doubt the AKC will let me register him as a beagle - especially since he looks just like a fox terrier(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I looked at their website prior to buying last year. They promoted they were an American cross but, also were blight free, produced bigger nuts, and had been grown in most states including the north. As for American traits, most every tree that has been shown on this forum is being planted in field/open conditions so the upright high growth is probably not needed.
Hopefully, within the next 10-15 years we'll be able to plant the 15/16s American hybrid.

I found a great article on growing chestnuts in Missouri.
http://www.fknursery.com/_ccLib/atta...s/Chestnut.pdf

I transfered my Chinese chestnuts into 2 gallon rootbuilders this weekend. I planted these on St Paty's day and received them from &quot;Worththewait&quot;.
The leaves had started curling and drying up a bit while in the 18 cell root makers. I don't know if it was from not watering enough, getting miracle gro fertilizer on them or pesticide soap but I started watering more and tranfered them. I figured it has been getting hotter and the trees had bigger roots which soaked up more water. Anyway, here are a few trees with the rootbuilders. Im excited to see how these pots do, Ive heard great things about them.

Well went away for the weekend, came back and 4 or the 6 americans are up, with the biggest one being about 3 inches. 2 still are not out of the ground but if I gently wiggle them I can feel they are in there good, so should be anyday now. The wildlifwe hybrids seem to be moving pretty slow though. Some are still only budded and the ones that appear to be doing the best are the ones put straight into the ground.

Just back from my property and made an intersting observation. The wildlife hybrid saplings I planted right out in tubes are 2 feet tall with huge leaves. The rest I mixed. I put some with smaller roots systems into the 18 cells and the rest in 1 gallon rootmakers, none of these are even close to the planted out ones. When is enough enough? As far as the root pruning goes. I am thinking of just pulling them all and planting them out in woods. Is it possible that the ones I have in the R/M's are putting their development into the roots first? I did transplant one from the 18 cell into a one gallon last week, and the roots looked like a root maker commercial. All fiberous and dense, totally different then when I put them in. It seems to be taking off now in the one gallon. I wonder if waiting for them to be pruned in the 1 gallon is worth it. I am open to any ideas.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Just back from my property and made an intersting observation. The wildlife hybrid saplings I planted right out in tubes are 2 feet tall with huge leaves. The rest I mixed. I put some with smaller roots systems into the 18 cells and the rest in 1 gallon rootmakers, none of these are even close to the planted out ones. When is enough enough? As far as the root pruning goes. I am thinking of just pulling them all and planting them out in woods. Is it possible that the ones I have in the R/M's are putting their development into the roots first? I did transplant one from the 18 cell into a one gallon last week, and the roots looked like a root maker commercial. All fiberous and dense, totally different then when I put them in. It seems to be taking off now in the one gallon. I wonder if waiting for them to be pruned in the 1 gallon is worth it. I am open to any ideas.
==================================
Bad Lt, I am new to growing trees in containers and from seed but here are a couple of my observations with some pics. Maybe somebody with more experience will provide some input too.
Allegheny Chinkapin on left and Dwarf Chinkapin Oak on right that I got bareroot the beginning of March, and stuck these in 1 gal rootmakers so I could see their growth at home. Over the weekend I was going to pull one of the DCO to see root growth and possibly move to a larger pot. When I started pulling, it felt like it was still just 1 main taproot and that no soil was going to hold in place so I put it back. The trees I planted in the field and tubed are comparable to these.
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This is a Dunstan that was planted late Jan in a rootmaker 18 cell, moved to 1 gal rootmaker 3/10/12 and getting ready to go into a 3 gal rootmaker 6/10/12. I've gotta think this root system is going to give this tree a much better chance at survival compared to a tree planted bareroot with basically a taproot and hopefully enable quicker mast production too.
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Here are some of my largest Dunstans that got moved to 3 gal rootmakers on 6/10/12, and my best looking American chestnut from indianasam. The Dunstans were started around the end of January and the Americans started around the end of February.
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Therapy, those trees look great! Those root systems in the 1 gallon pots are impressive. My american chestnuts from Larry are just about to start their second flush.

 

[yoderjac]

Therapy,
Great looking trees! Would anything have been gained by starting with the 3-Gal. root makers instead of the two transplants?

Amazing growth, those Dunstans really move. I think in order for the whole system to work you have to move in steps. I think I will take the seedlings that I put right into the R.M pots and just plant them out. I don't believe they will ever develop the fiberous roots that the ones in the 18 cells did...at least for quite some time. Maybe another couple of days I will move the 18 cells to the pots, and grow them till the fall. Who knows if there is a right answer. It is just hard to compare the growth difference that I see between the ones in the woods and the ones in my yard

I have 4 Americans started from seed from Larry. They are in my garden here at home and get watered every other day and with the high temps we have had they have just exploded with growth. They really seem to love the heat. I will try and get some new pics this weekend. These trees are in one gallon rootmakers pots and i am wondering if they should go to bigger bags.

I got started late with American Chestnut seed from Larry, then had a set back when squirrels got to the seeds. Upon hearing about my misfortune Larry quickly sent me some more seeds. &quot;stand up guy&quot; Anyway I am amazed at how the seeds have performed,honestly I think they have reach the size of where the original sprouts would have been. Amazing trees!

Here are the pictures of my 4 american's from Larry.
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the largest one so far
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A couple new pics.
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I did not measure but the bigger ones have to be pushing 24&quot;+
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I also pruned them to central leader, one of them had a pretty nice branch coming off the side but I got rid of it.
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Those Americans are looking really good CrazyED!
fldbred - As Bad Lt said for the rootmaker system to work as intended with the 4 inch rule as described by Dr. Whitcomb you must move in steps, this way the roots are air pruned and branch, then move to a slightly larger rootmaker container to give the branched roots more room to grow, get air pruned again, and branch some more.
I had a little problem about a month ago. Knew it probably wasn't going to be good as I watched shingles fly off the neighbors roof, then saw this happen.
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Will you guys that started Chestnuts this year, plant them out this Fall, wait till early Spring, or leave them in pots for another year?

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Originally Posted by fldbred
Will you guys that started Chestnuts this year, plant them out this Fall, wait till early Spring, or leave them in pots for another year?
==================================
I am thinking I will move them out this fall. Once it cools off a bit more, and hopefully we get more moisture in the ground it's still pretty dry. I guess i'm a bit torn. I'd like to get them out because they are getting too big for the 1 gallon rootmaker pots that I have them in. Not to mention i'm going to want these empty pots in 6 months when I have more going in my basement. Hopefully Larry has a good crop I want a dozen or 2 more.
Here's some pics of mine from tonight. I did not measure but I put a 5 gallon bucket in the picture for scale.
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Ed,
Did they get all day sun, or just morning sun? Mine I think dried out too much and received too much sun.

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Originally Posted by letemgrow
Ed,
Did they get all day sun, or just morning sun? Mine I think dried out too much and received too much sun.
==================================
Not sure how many hours a day but they don't get all day sun. I have them in a chicken wire cage in my veggie garden. Immediately to the west of the cage is a tomatoe plant jungle that have been keeping them out of the direct sun, and we have another massive tree that kind of blocks late afternoon sun too. I watered (city water) a ton during june and july when it was really hot out but i have really cut back in the past 4 weeks or so.

I'm late to this nut party....Larry, I'd like to be put on a waiting list for some nuts this fall.

I thought I'd update the status of my two nut producing American Chestnut trees. Below is a picture of the crown of one of the trees that I took this morning (8/15/2012). Note the burr clusters. I have never seen so many of them. We are finally starting to get rain again but are still about 7 inches below normal for the year. I have no idea what effect this will have on the total nut production. Two years ago the trees dropped 50% of the burrs in early September before maturation so we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.

wow, great picture, looks like an amazing crop. Will definitely be ordering more this fall.

Great pic of the American Chestnut!
Hope to see mine looking like that some day.

I just ordered 9 pounds of Dunstan Chestnuts.
I tried to read thru this entire thread and came away several different opinions on how to propagate from seeds.
Could some of you experts do some easy to understand bullet points on how to propagate from seeds? That would be very helpful for us rookies. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Quote:
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Originally Posted by unclefish
I just ordered 9 pounds of Dunstan Chestnuts.
I tried to read thru this entire thread and came away several different opinions on how to propagate from seeds.
Could some of you experts do some easy to understand bullet points on how to propagate from seeds? That would be very helpful for us rookies. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
1.Plant them out in the fall where u want them.
2. Make sure to add protection from rodents getting the seed and deer browse.
3. Do not over-water if putting them in pots.
4. They like morning sun and not afternoon sun on scorching days.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by unclefish
I just ordered 9 pounds of Dunstan Chestnuts.
I tried to read thru this entire thread and came away several different opinions on how to propagate from seeds.
Could some of you experts do some easy to understand bullet points on how to propagate from seeds? That would be very helpful for us rookies. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
Unclefish....where did you find the Dunstan chestnuts to buy?

Check Ebay that is where everyone has been getting them

I did get mine off ebay. I think I bought the guy out but I understand he gets more in all the time.
Thanks letemgrow. Do I need to stratify them in the fridge?

 

[yoderjac]

My american chestnut seedlings from Larry continue to do well. Here is one of the better chestnut seedling from about 10 days ago. It’s continued to put on good growth during this flush since I took that picture. Will definitely be ordering some more from Larry this fall.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by ROS VEGAS
I'm late to this nut party....Larry, I'd like to be put on a waiting list for some nuts this fall.
==================================
You'll really like doing business with Larry, he's a stand up guy, with a good product!

If starting chestnuts in pots, how should I store them for the winter? If I plant them now, will they sprout before winter? Could I just bury the pots in my garden for the winter? Thanks for the info.

Bump
For a Northern boy who would also like to know the answer to this question.I got 3 lbs.coming
Wanted put some out in pots now with protection over them from rodents,if recommended.
Put the remainder in the fridge and try growing some in doors early spring with artificial light.
plant some in pots in the spring after being in the fridge all winter.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by padeerhunter10
If starting chestnuts in pots, how should I store them for the winter? If I plant them now, will they sprout before winter? Could I just bury the pots in my garden for the winter? Thanks for the info.
==================================
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drew
Bump
For a Northern boy who would also like to know the answer to this question.I got 3 lbs.coming
Wanted put some out in pots now with protection over them from rodents,if recommended.
Put the remainder in the fridge and try growing some in doors early spring with artificial light.
plant some in pots in the spring after being in the fridge all winter.
==================================
From what I've read and learned, Chestnuts need 60-90 days of cold stratification. Hopefully will have my Dunstan seed in the next week or two and get it in the fridge in ziploc bags with some moistened paper towel and some holes poked in the bag until the beginning of January, then get about half of it out and start trying to germinate it. Seems like it took 15-20 days on average for them to germinate indoors after removing from the fridge. The other half I plan on direct seeding in January or February depending on the weather and temps.
I direct seeded this Dunstan the end of January. Pic is from mid April and is probably about 24&quot; tall now.
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These are 3 of my best Dunstans that germinated late January and were started in 18 cell rootmakers indoors and now in 3 gal rootmaker pots. However, the majority of the Dunstans I have are in 1 gal rootmakers and are around 30&quot;-36&quot; tall now.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by THERAPY
From what I've read and learned, Chestnuts need 60-90 days of cold stratification. Hopefully will have my Dunstan seed in the next week or two and get it in the fridge in ziploc bags with some moistened paper towel and some holes poked in the bag until the beginning of January, then get about half of it out and start trying to germinate it. Seems like it took 15-20 days on average for them to germinate indoors after removing from the fridge. The other half I plan on direct seeding in January or February depending on the weather and temps.
I direct seeded this Dunstan the end of January. Pic is from mid April and is probably about 24&quot; tall now.
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These are 3 of my best Dunstans that germinated late January and were started in 18 cell rootmakers indoors and now in 3 gal rootmaker pots. However, the majority of the Dunstans I have are in 1 gal rootmakers and are around 30&quot;-36&quot; tall now.
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Thanks for the info.! Years ago, someone gave me some chinese chestnuts and I planted them in my garden this time of year and everyone of them came up in the spring....now they are producing nuts, and after reading these post, wondered if I just got lucky??? I just picked about 50 nuts from the trees that were split open and I'm gonna plant half of them in my garden and put the other half in the refig. and see which does better....

My Dunstan chestnuts were sitting on my door step when I got home tonight. I've done some stratification with persimmon seeds, but never waited for them to develop roots before planting as described in some earlier posts.
I'd like to here some more specifics on how you guys start them. When I did the persimmon seeds, I put them in a ziplok freezer bag with a handful of moist peat moss. I left the bag in the fridge partly open for a few weeks and then planted the seeds.
So, when you guys put the seeds in ziplok bags with a damp paper towel,
- Do you leave the bag partly open?
- Do you re moisten the towel occasionally?
- How many seeds do you put in the bag?
- How long should until I should see root tips?
Finally, do you guys use a grow light when starting these indoors?
Thanks,
Jack

Jack, I'll tell you what works for me. I just put the seeds in a zip-lock freezer bag, either a few or hundreds, and place it in the vegetable crisper (the lowest drawer) of the refrigerator. The temperature stays around 37 degrees but never lower than 32. They will keep this way without germinating for at least 16 months and probably longer. I open the bags occasionally to remove seeds but sometimes not for months. They must be kept at this temperature for about 60 days or so before the seeds can be germinated. To get them to germinate slowly you can just add a little water to the bag and leave them in the refrigerator. Or, to get them to germinate faster, say about two weeks, you can add a little water to the bag and raise them to a temperature of about 50 degrees, or alternately you can just plant them directly in root maker pots and keep them at room temperature. Once germinated indoors you should use grow lights so you don't get spindly growth. I'm currently germinating 18 seeds from last year crop (2011) that have been stored as described above as a &quot;show and tell&quot; demonstration for a local garden club. So far I have 4 seeds with shoots out of the soil and 7 more with
seeds &quot;lifted&quot; out of the soil. I'm sure the remaining 7 will be doing likewise soon.
Larry

Another question for planning purposes. How long from the time you plant the chestnuts in the trays until they are ready for transplant into the bags? This my govern when I start. I'll have room for the trays indoors, but 50 bags may need to go outside.

 

[yoderjac]

Indianasam,
Do you leave the bags closed, with no water for that long? Do you soak them prior to placing them in the bags? thanks, I have several to start, just really don't know where to start, so asking the pros.
Heath

I found a giant Chinese chestnut tree yesterday. I'm pretty sure it's the only tree in it's area. The burs are huge and I broke a few open. The middle nut is huge- as big as the &quot;dunstons&quot; I got from eBay. There were 2 little mis-shaped nuts on either side. Is it possible for an unfertilized tree to grow such a large nut?

Quote:
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Originally Posted by HHSYelper
Indianasam,
Do you leave the bags closed, with no water for that long? Do you soak them prior to placing them in the bags? thanks, I have several to start, just really don't know where to start, so asking the pros.
Heath
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Unfortunately, I've had no experience with bags only root-maker pots. Hopefully those forum members with bag experience can answer your question. I'm going to report on my summer's experimenting with pots below. It will include some observations and conclusions about watering.

Any other Chestnutters out there who can comment on the questions on the last page or two of this thread?
Here is what I've done so far:
1) I could not find the leafy peat moss, so I just used the peat I could find. I took two handfuls, soaked them, squeezed out the water, and broke the clod up into a 1 gal Ziploc bag.
2) I rinsed off the Dunstan chestnuts and put 25 in each bag. There were exactly 199 chestnuts in my 5 lb purchase.
3) I did not seal the bags closed. I left the corners open before putting them in the vegetable drawer in the fridge.
I'm guessing I'll be taking the next step in early December. I'll continue to use this thread to learn and ask questions, but I'll document my experiences as I go in another thread: <http://www.qrgc-forums.org/QRGC_Foru...-for-deer.aspx
Thank,
Jack

The picture below is of 20 American Chestnut seedlings grown this year in my first use of root-maker (RM) pots. They were started in 4-inch cells in two batches, 18 on May 23 and 6 on July 3. The first batch of seeds had root radicles of about 1/2 inch when planted while the second batch were simply direct seeded. In both cases the seeds had been refrigerated in ziploc baggies since October of 2011. Of the extra four, one was lost to a watering problem described below and the other three were lost to rodent attack. In all cases Miracle Gro Potting Mixture was used. On July 3 (6 weeks from initial planting) five seedlings were transplanted into 1-gallon RM pots; one of these ultimately died. On August 24 (13 weeks from planting) six seedlings were transplanted into 1-gallon RM pots. And, on September 12 ten seedlings (four 16 weeks from planting and six 10 weeks from planting) were transplanted into 1-gallon RM pots.
Some observations:
(1) I always water chestnut seedlings with stored rain water and never had problems. However, this year's drought completely depleted my supply and none was forthcoming! I naively replaced the rainwater with pond water thinking there was no difference. The first batch of seedlings were exclusively watered with pond water and eventually by week six had developed a leaf malady having brown leaf edges that rapidly worked its way inward toward the center leaf rib. One plant (pictured elsewhere in another thread on this site) eventually died. On July 1 we had enough rain for me to replenish my supply so the plants have been watered exclusively with rain water since and you can see the result in the picture. Some plants in the front show lower leaves with brown edges. Subsequently, I learned that where I live all pond, lake, and river water is buffered to a pH of 7.2. Thus, it's my opinion that long term use of the pond water raised the pH in the soil to a level that interfered with the plant's ability to take up a require nutrient or nutrients. My recommendation, unless you have another source of water with a pH less than 7.0, is to use rain water exclusively when watering your seedlings.
(2) Right after transplanting into larger pots remember that the &quot;root ball&quot; is at the very top of the pot. It's very possible, particularly in hot weather, for this root ball to dry out but still having plenty of water at the bottom of the pot. The plant can't access this water. The pot will still feel &quot;heavy&quot; but your seedling has no water! Since these pots have lots of drain holes it won't hurt to water frequently at this time.
(3) At six weeks the &quot;root balls&quot; had not completely filled the 4-inch pots. At 16 weeks the plants had clearly become root bound. Between 10 and 13 weeks the roots had appeared to just fill the pots, so my recommendation would be to transplant at roughly three months.

How ofter did you water them in the 4&quot; cells? I have found it very easy to over water then...especially when they are just putting down a taproot. Once the roots start to fill the container, they need at least one dose a day in hot weather from my experience.

I've had my share of failure and success in this department.
A few things:
What Indianasam said about water is spot on. Don't use tap water unless you know it's ph level.
Don't use a packaged potting soil from a big box store. They contain humectants or dessicants, which can retain or expell water. Use a mix of manure and sandy soil. Better yet, use the soil from the place in which you'll be planting them. Sometimes you can find good potting soil at a local nursery that doesn't contain any of the above.
Ph and soil moisture MUST be at the proper levels for chestnuts. Sometimes a pot will look dry on top but will have alot of moisture on the bottom of the pot. This will quickly lead to root rot.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by letemgrow
How ofter did you water them in the 4&quot; cells? I have found it very easy to over water then...especially when they are just putting down a taproot. Once the roots start to fill the container, they need at least one dose a day in hot weather from my experience.
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The same, once a day (sometimes twice) if in hot sun but maybe once every two or three days if under grow lights inside. You can tell in the sun if the leaves start to wilt that they need water. These 4-inch pots have so many holes that I feel it's hard to over water them as the excess just drips out the bottom. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be careful! Be especially careful with shaded smaller plants as they won't use as much water even in the sun.

Just a few questions for guys using the rootmaker systems so I can do some planning.
- How long after you plant the nuts in the 18 tray propagators do you typically transplant them into the roottrapper 1 gal bags?
- Can you delay planting to fit your schedule by simply leaving he nuts in the ziploc bags in the vegetable bin in the fridge?
The reason I ask is because I have way more nuts than roottrapper bags. I plan to use the roottrapper bags to maximize development before planting next fall. I was thinking of planting the rest as seedlings in the spring. I'd like to time those to be ready to leave the 18 cell trays when the frost threat passes.

My 2012 crop of American Chestnut seeds is almost in. The drought (we are still 8 inches below normal for the year) had no affect on pollination but it did cause the seeds to be smaller than normal. A representative sample is shown in the picture below. The seeds are in ZipLoc bags in the refrigerator. If you are interested in purchasing any of the seeds either contact me through the forum or check out my eBay sale. Search &quot;American Chestnut seeds&quot;.

Larry,
PM sent.

 

[yoderjac]

When I called rotmaker a while back the guy I spoke with told me to keep them in the 18 cells for 12-16 weeks. I guess at that point judge if you have enough root mass.

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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
When I called rotmaker a while back the guy I spoke with told me to keep them in the 18 cells for 12-16 weeks. I guess at that point judge if you have enough root mass.
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Thanks! That is a big help. So, here is my thinking:
- Late Sept - My seeds went in the fridge (199 seeds)
- Early Dec - Plant 72 seeds in four 18 cell trays
- Late Feb - Transplant 50 of these into 1 gal roottrapper bags (allow for failure). Plant another 72 seeds in the 18 cell trays.
- Mid May - Plant the 72 (minus failures) seedlings directly from the trays.
- Mid Sept - Plant the 50 trees from the roottrapper bags.
Thanks,
Jack

Hope you got a good shovel and a strong back..thats a lot of trees

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Lt
Hope you got a good shovel and a strong back..thats a lot of trees
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I've got a auger for my tractor and some volunteers to help with the planting.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
I've got a auger for my tractor and some volunteers to help with the planting.
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That's cheating(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Got my American Chestnuts! Thanks Larry.
Will be following the processs highlighted in this thread.....Thanks Jack
I am planting these for deer...but some will also be planted in the yard....It is only a 15 yard shot off the front porch.

I think that it is great that you all are buying pure Am Chestnut seeds from Larry. I have bought some as well. But please do yourself a favor and plant some chinese and other blight resistant hybrids as well if you are tryng to produce mast producing trees for deer. If you are in the historic Am Chestnut range, your pure Americans are gonna die back. If you are not, your chances are better but not absolute that you can grow them to nut producing age. I guess there is an outside chance that Larry's trees are inherently blight resistant (I hope so) but it is highly unlikely. There is also some evidence that the shoots that regrow after die back become increasingly blight resistant with each successional regrowth, but this takes a lifetime to occur til they can produce nuts. If you are growing them for the novelty or are a gambler, go for it. But if you truly want to establish additional mast sources for deer. Plant both.

I am mostly planting them to re-establish the American chestnut.
I also have nuts coming from the ACF that have been cross bred back 5-6 times to create a blight resistant American Chestnut.
This is one of the few causes I believe in.
On another location I have planted several Dunstant trees bouth at Walmart (5-6 feet, $9.50)....these are definetely wildlife oriented.

I want to report on the final one-year growth of the 20 American Chestnut seedlings that I previously showed on page 42 of this thread. The results are typical of what one can expect for the one-year growth of seedlings of this tree. The small trees have almost all gone into winter dormancy and are shown in the photo below. The average height is 11.5 +- 3.8 inches. The average diameter at 1-inch height is 0.233 +- 0.032 inches. And, the average height-to-diameter ratio is 49 +- 17 inch/inch. Here the errors represent one standard deviation, i.e. 67% of the values fall within the range. Clearly there is a large range in heights and height-to-diameter ratios but all have diameters at 1-inch height of about 1/4 inch. My plans at the moment are to keep the trees in the 1-gallon root maker pots for one more growing season and then transplant into a final location next fall.

Below is shown a close-up of one of the 20 one-year-old seedlings shown in the picture above. It has a height of 11 1/2 inches and is typical of what one should expect for the first year's growth.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by THERAPY
Bad Lt, I am new to growing trees in containers and from seed but here are a couple of my observations with some pics. Maybe somebody with more experience will provide some input too.
Allegheny Chinkapin on left and Dwarf Chinkapin Oak on right that I got bareroot the beginning of March, and stuck these in 1 gal rootmakers so I could see their growth at home. Over the weekend I was going to pull one of the DCO to see root growth and possibly move to a larger pot. When I started pulling, it felt like it was still just 1 main taproot and that no soil was going to hold in place so I put it back. The trees I planted in the field and tubed are comparable to these.
MISSING PICTURE - (Original post had picture as an attachment rather than a link)
This is a Dunstan that was planted late Jan in a rootmaker 18 cell, moved to 1 gal rootmaker 3/10/12 and getting ready to go into a 3 gal rootmaker 6/10/12. I've gotta think this root system is going to give this tree a much better chance at survival compared to a tree planted bareroot with basically a taproot and hopefully enable quicker mast production too.
MISSING PICTURE - (Original post had picture as an attachment rather than a link)
Here are some of my largest Dunstans that got moved to 3 gal rootmakers on 6/10/12, and my best looking American chestnut from indianasam. The Dunstans were started around the end of January and the Americans started around the end of February.
MISSING PICTURE - (Original post had picture as an attachment rather than a link)
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Wow!!! That is impressive stuff. You guys got this stuff down. I don't have a greenhouse or anything, but would love to get into germinating seeds for wildlife plantings. Problem is, I am not that good at it. I spent alot of money last year and ordered 50 Dunstan Chestnuts. Didn't get to plant half of them so I put them in 5 gallon pots. About 6 of them died and the rest started to look pretty sick. I had to run up to the property and plant them in the middle of summer just to save the 19 i had left. Of those a few more died. I'm guessing that my potting medium wasn't right. I learned that potted Chestnut Trees are real picky.

I have some chestnut seeds that I currently have in the fridge. However, I see from other people that the seeds frequently start sprouting while still in the fridge. I would like to plant my seeds directly into the ground in late April/early May. I was wondering if placing the seeds out in my garage for the winter (being in Wisconsin), where it is below 32 all the time if I can delay the sprouting? Since seeds in the wild are under the snow and presumably freeze, I assume this wouldn't be a problem?
Thoughts?