Green Cover Fall release & crimper

[Wild Thing]

A few things became evident to me this summer for my land up here in Zone 3. This is now my first full year of no-till and planting a diverse mix of legumes, grasses, and brassica. I have performed no tillage this year.....and no fertilizer.....and little chemical until recently. I got some great clover plots....but could now use a little rain. My observations are.....

1. The longer I leave the Winter Rye stand in the summer.....the better it's alleopatic effects on weeds and the better my clovers and underlying crops can grow. Letting the Rye grow until just before it becomes viable seed seems to make lots of sense......and I get more bio-mass.....and this year that termination could have been mid July or later for me. (I pushed it 'cause I wanted a summer "release"). At this point a "summer release" is off the table for me.

2. With Mid July being a termination date.....that eliminates any spring work and most chemical treatments. ($$) Saves seed and any fertilizer expense too. Would not need to worry about mowing fawns.....and the rye would provide cover for newly born fawns too. Weed control (chemicals) is prolonged.

3. After roller crimping the rye.....sometime in July......I could burn down some areas for fall brasica plot planting with my drill......also could still plant soy beans and pumpkins......and use other areas as clover plots through August. Also can plant "green" into the standing rye with my drill......and that could likely be the best means (somewhat depending on what crops follow).

4. In late August or Early September......I would broadcast winter Rye, clovers, and perhaps again some brassica - somewhat depending on the success of the prior July efforts.

One thing that bugs at me is my lack of success with broadcasting rye in the fall. However I have normally broadcast into row crops onto bare ground.....as compared to broadcasting into a diverse mixture of thatch and growing cover crops. I know I gotta take a shot at this.......it's just that all my experience says "don't go down that broadcast rabbit hole again".

Fly's on this plan? Other ideas? Remember I am in Zone 3 - Northern MN. Thanks!

It sure sounds simple.

I have made some of the same observations as you have this year Foggy - here in Upper Michigan - Zone 4a. Trying to have 2 successful cover crops for summer and fall in the north can be difficult for sure. The drought conditions we have had this year certainly haven't helped but it seems like I have been behind the 8 Ball on this summer planting as well. I may abandon spring and summer planting altogether next year as well.

I know you are hesitant to broadcast rye and I get that. There is no question that you will always get the best germination when you drill the seed vs broadcasting it. But...broadcasting does have its advantages at times so we just can't ignore it just because we like drilling our seed. You just can't drill cereal grains into a standing brassica plot without destroying the brassicas - but you can broadcast rye into a brassica plot in August and still get pretty good results. I strongly believe that the key to successfully broadcasting rye is to time it just prior to a rain event - in fact, broadcasting any seed just prior to a rain event will usually yield the best results.

 

[omicron1792]

A few things became evident to me this summer for my land up here in Zone 3. This is now my first full year of no-till and planting a diverse mix of legumes, grasses, and brassica. I have performed no tillage this year.....and no fertilizer.....and little chemical until recently. I got some great clover plots....but could now use a little rain. My observations are.....

1. The longer I leave the Winter Rye stand in the summer.....the better it's alleopatic effects on weeds and the better my clovers and underlying crops can grow. Letting the Rye grow until just before it becomes viable seed seems to make lots of sense......and I get more bio-mass.....and this year that termination could have been mid July or later for me. (I pushed it 'cause I wanted a summer "release"). At this point a "summer release" is off the table for me.

2. With Mid July being a termination date.....that eliminates any spring work and most chemical treatments. ($$) Saves seed and any fertilizer expense too. Would not need to worry about mowing fawns.....and the rye would provide cover for newly born fawns too. Weed control (chemicals) is prolonged.

3. After roller crimping the rye.....sometime in July......I could burn down some areas for fall brasica plot planting with my drill......also could still plant soy beans and pumpkins......and use other areas as clover plots through August. Also can plant "green" into the standing rye with my drill......and that could likely be the best means (somewhat depending on what crops follow).

4. In late August or Early September......I would broadcast winter Rye, clovers, and perhaps again some brassica - somewhat depending on the success of the prior July efforts.

One thing that bugs at me is my lack of success with broadcasting rye in the fall. However I have normally broadcast into row crops onto bare ground.....as compared to broadcasting into a diverse mixture of thatch and growing cover crops. I know I gotta take a shot at this.......it's just that all my experience says "don't go down that broadcast rabbit hole again".

Fly's on this plan? Other ideas? Remember I am in Zone 3 - Northern MN. Thanks!

It sure sounds simple.

Why not drill that second round of planting?

I’m thinking of hedging my fall planting. Drill my clovers/brassicas/vetch with about 40lbs of rye. Then come back and broadcast 50-60lbs a few weeks later.

 

[Foggy47]

Why not drill that second round of planting?

I’m thinking of hedging my fall planting. Drill my clovers/brassicas/vetch with about 40lbs of rye. Then come back and broadcast 50-60lbs a few weeks later.

When are you planning to drill that clovers/brassica/vetch and 40 lbs of rye? That sounds somewhat appealing to me.

 

[omicron1792]

When are you planning to drill that clovers/brassica/vetch and 40 lbs of rye? That sounds somewhat appealing to me.

In alabama if I plant the too early it’s not great for hunting. So probably drill last week of September then broadcast 2 weeks later or so.

I’ve bought every clover known to do well In this area and I’m gonna do some experiments on which ones do the best. Bought a 50lbs bag of Durana and 18lbs of imperial that I’ll use along with some annuals.

Blackhawk arrowleaf
Dixie crimson
Sweet blue lupine
Med red
Fixation balansa
Sweet blue lupine.
Subterranean

Forgot I’m gonna add some winter peas and a little buckwheat in that mix too.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Why not drill that second round of planting?

I’m thinking of hedging my fall planting. Drill my clovers/brassicas/vetch with about 40lbs of rye. Then come back and broadcast 50-60lbs a few weeks later.

Up in zone 3 outside of huge bean/corn plots, lots of brassica tonnage is the name of the game for drawing/holding power come november and later. Most want to get their brassicas planted in July to get the most tonnage. Running the tractor and drill over your 6 week old brassicas to plant rye is sure to do some damage to em.

 

[Foggy47]

Up in zone 3 outside of huge bean/corn plots, lots of brassica tonnage is the name of the game for drawing/holding power come november and later. Most want to get their brassicas planted in July to get the most tonnage. Running the tractor and drill over your 6 week old brassicas to plant rye is sure to do some damage to em.

Yep.....and that is a big concern I have too. At the same time.....I planted my brassica into a pretty solid stand of my clover mix (along with some summer release crops). The brassica has taken hold OK in the thin spots.....but is struggling in the better clovers.

I somewhat took a chance here on this method......without setting the clover back by mowing short or via chemical treatments. I was uncertain the young clovers could have taken any chemicals and rebounded....as they were planted last fall. So.....here I am.....now with a great stand of clover(s) and some so-so brassica struggling to taking ahold. I need a rain.

If I do not have any turnip bulbs or substantial radish by late August.....then I may drill next years clovers and winter rye.....and include some winter peas, and radish.

If the brassica does in fact take hold.....then I will broadcast the winter rye, clovers, and more. (tho I doubt broadcasting peas would provide any results).

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

It becomes much easier to have success broadcasting rye once you create a nice layer of decomposed organic matter across the soil surface.....aka black dirt......Also, mycorrhizal fungi returning to the system greatly improves the germination and seedling survival efficiency

 

[SD51555]

I have made some of the same observations as you have this year Foggy - here in Upper Michigan - Zone 4a. Trying to have 2 successful cover crops for summer and fall in the north can be difficult for sure. The drought conditions we have had this year certainly haven't helped but it seems like I have been behind the 8 Ball on this summer planting as well. I may abandon spring and summer planting altogether next year as well.

I'm not sure how long your growing season is compared to mine. I'm throwing and mowing for the fall this weekend. It'll be the first thing I've done foodplot-wise this season, other than some spot liming. It'll also be the last thing I do for foodplots this season.

I don't know that my winter wheat or winter rye that I'm mowing down will even have viable seed yet. I also hold out this long to try to get a volunteer crop of vetch. My point is, that my season is very short too, and I can't even finish a rye or wheat crop before it gets to be time to restart everything for the next season.

 

[Foggy47]

It becomes much easier to have success broadcasting rye once you create a nice layer of decomposed organic matter across the soil surface.....aka black dirt......Also, mycorrhizal fungi returning to the system greatly improves the germination and seedling survival efficiency

Yep.....and I'm not there....yet. Tho I do have some bio-mass and clover to somewhat protect those seeds......mostly they are gonna land on sand....and unless things go near "perfect" in the rain and weather department......I will lose every time. I may just drill those seeds and let some of the brassica terminate if that's what happens. I need to get through a few years to get "soil" instead of sandy loam.

Next year seems more important at this point.....and I need that winter rye.

 

[Foggy47]

I'm not sure how long your growing season is compared to mine. I'm throwing and mowing for the fall this weekend. It'll be the first thing I've done foodplot-wise this season, other than some spot liming. It'll also be the last thing I do for foodplots this season.

I don't know that my winter wheat or winter rye that I'm mowing down will even have viable seed yet. I also hold out this long to try to get a volunteer crop of vetch. My point is, that my season is very short too, and I can't even finish a rye or wheat crop before it gets to be time to restart everything for the next season.

You are likely less than 45 miles north of my property SD. I've come to believe that doing more than one crop per year is folly. Not that some crops cannot compliment each other as the seasons come and go.....but trying to do two "release" types is beyond my capability mostly due to growing days. I think I have learned that the winter rye will do many things for me.....if I allow it to work its magic. That has lots of positive benefits for me. I now just need to learn how to provide a fall attractiant crop after the clover starts it's retreat in late October.......withowut killing off my clovers. I am getting close. Grin.

 

[Wild Thing]

I'm not sure how long your growing season is compared to mine. I'm throwing and mowing for the fall this weekend. It'll be the first thing I've done foodplot-wise this season, other than some spot liming. It'll also be the last thing I do for foodplots this season.

I don't know that my winter wheat or winter rye that I'm mowing down will even have viable seed yet. I also hold out this long to try to get a volunteer crop of vetch. My point is, that my season is very short too, and I can't even finish a rye or wheat crop before it gets to be time to restart everything for the next season.

Sounds like a good plan SD.

Here in Upper Michigan I don't believe my rye seed is viable enough to germinate. I did collect some seed heads while I was out yesterday which I plan to do a rag doll test on just to check, but the seeds didn't look dark enough yet so I am guessing I won't get much germination on them. Another week, or 2 weeks for sure and I'm sure they would be viable.

I have had good success planting my brassicas in early-mid July here. In recent years I have been planting RR Sugar Beets early, spraying them twice and then broadcasting brassicas over the sugar beets in July and then broadcasting rye over the brassicas/sugar beets in August. I also have other brassica plots where I just drill into the previous years' cover crop after terminating it in July and then broadcasting rye over that in August. I normally plant my fall cover crops in mid-August and rotate that into brassicas the following year. Both my brassica mix and my cover crop mix contain clovers (4#/acre in the brassica mix). These do not interfere at all with my brassica growth but they, along with the rye, provide very good spring/early summer forage and keep my soil covered after the brassicas are gone.

This year is my 7th year of 100% no-till, and my first year of zero fertilizer inputs. I decided to delay planting my sugar beets in order to get additional growth on the cover crop in order to get more biomass and additional nutrient cycling prior to planting. This delay along with our drought conditions (only 1.2" of rain in July) has set things back some. This was also my first year of planting a summer cover crop and while it has come up OK, the late start and drought hasn't allowed much growth.

I am going to change up my fall planting this year in order to get an earlier start on the majority of the plants in my mix (peas, vetch, brassicas, clovers, buckwheat). Our average first frost date here is in mid-September so I've only got 6 weeks between now and then. As you all know, if I plant my cereal grains this early they will be too mature and much less palatable by archery season (Oct 1st) so I am going to try out a 2-part planting of my fall cover crop this year. I will still include some cereal grains with the cover crop but will broadcast the bulk of it later on in late August/early September.

BTW - I am planting my fall cover crop today. This will be the earliest I have ever planted the fall crop but we have a good chance of 1/2' of rain tonight so I am planting today. I haven't seen 1/2" of rain in a long time...



This is how I decided to tweak my fall cover crop. Rather than planting the cereal grain component at 60#/acre as I normally would (50# rye and 10# wheat per acre), I am only planting 10#/acre each of oats, rye and wheat. In a month or so I will broadcast another 40-50# or so of rye. More work, I know, but I believe I will get more growth of the non-grain plants and better timing of the fall rye. As you guys know, part of the fun of this food plot planting is trying different approaches and tweaking things here and there. I am pretty confident this is going to work out fine.

Of course, I will also broadcast rye over my brassica plots later on. They are up right now but just struggling some due to lack of rain. Hopefully we get this rain tonight and it gives them another jump start. I am also seriously considering going back to the "KISS" principle next year and foregoing the early planting of sugar beets. It is just so much easier (and less expensive) to plant July brassicas and be done with it. As some of you already mentioned, it also gives me more growth and nutrient cycling of my cover crop if I don't terminate them until July.

Here is what the tweaked cover crop mix looks like now and what I will be planting today:

 

[Tree Spud]

We deal with the same issue of the late july early august lack of rain. We were also set back this spring as very cold temps went well into May. My WR only got to ~2' when it normally reaches 4'-5'.

Trying to balance timing of fall planting almost becomes a mid summer target.

 

[SD51555]

I now just need to learn how to provide a fall attractiant crop after the clover starts it's retreat in late October.......withowut killing off my clovers. I am getting close. Grin.

God help us if we figure that out. There'll be nothing left to learn.

I'm putting all my chips on ***** ********* this fall. I was able to get spring wheat up through my fall throw and mow clover last year, and my clover was pretty thick last year already despite the drought. The biomass this year is off the charts, thanks to a return to an almost too-much rain environment. I'm very pleased with it, but now that it's time to chew it up and get the next crop up. I'm a little concerned about residue boogers, given my dreams of flail mowing 4 tons/ac of biomass into a perfectly spread mulch over my seed are up in smoke for the time being.

I can't type my secret cereal grain into the message. I don't want the buckwheat guy messing that up too.

 

[Foggy47]

We deal with the same issue of the late july early august lack of rain. We were also set back this spring as very cold temps went well into May. My WR only got to ~2' when it normally reaches 4'-5'.

Trying to balance timing of fall planting almost becomes a mid summer target.

I have not had any meaningful rain in about ten days. On my sandy soil....I gotta get some rain each week or so to keep things green. I put a shovel in the ground yesterday......and there was just a bit of moist soil around the roots....but the soil was going to be dusty sand very soon.

In the past week or so.....the weeds have begun to grow.......so I identified the problem area and types of weeds. Decided to spray some grasses in about two acres hoping to restore those areas.....and I spot spayed some thistle that is largely outside my plots. Also decided to cut some clover plots where I got some broadleaves trying to take over. I cut late afternoon.....in hopes that I dont dry things up too much. We have some chances of rain in the late afternoon coming up.

Kinda a typical August situation.......balanceing lack of rainfall with chemical spray and mowing. It's a gamble with the sand I got. Most all plotting efforts are now on hold until late August......or such time as rainfall looks certain.

Maybe more weed control efforts in a week or two. I got 8 acres of fair to good clovers feeding somewhere around 30 deer each day.....and I got some brassica that has germinated....but needs rain real badly. My neighbors have some good looking beans (40 acres?) and a large corn field that looks like it will feed an Army (maybe 200+ acres of corn). They usually have those crops harvested before the deer season........so Im hoping that I can offer the neighborhood deer the best groceries come November. One can hope.

 

[SD51555]

I have not had any meaningful rain in about ten days. On my sandy soil....I gotta get some rain each week or so to keep things green. I put a shovel in the ground yesterday......and there was just a bit of moist soil around the roots....but the soil was going to be dusty sand very soon.

In the past week or so.....the weeds have begun to grow.......so I identified the problem area and types of weeds. Decided to spray some grasses in about two acres hoping to restore those areas.....and I spot spayed some thistle that is largely outside my plots. Also decided to cut some clover plots where I got some broadleaves trying to take over. I cut late afternoon.....in hopes that I dont dry things up too much. We have some chances of rain in the late afternoon coming up.

Kinda a typical August situation.......balanceing lack of rainfall with chemical spray and mowing. It's a gamble with the sand I got. Most all plotting efforts are now on hold until late August......or such time as rainfall looks certain.

Maybe more weed control efforts in a week or two. I got 8 acres of fair to good clovers feeding somewhere around 30 deer each day.....and I got some brassica that has germinated....but needs rain real badly. My neighbors have some good looking beans (40 acres?) and a large corn field that looks like it will feed an Army (maybe 200+ acres of corn). They usually have those crops harvested before the deer season........so Im hoping that I can offer the neighborhood deer the best groceries come November. One can hope.

How did your forage hold up last season through rifle? Did you run out, or have leftovers get snowed over?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

God help us if we figure that out. There'll be nothing left to learn.

I'm putting all my chips on ***** ********* this fall. I was able to get spring wheat up through my fall throw and mow clover last year, and my clover was pretty thick last year already despite the drought.

Just an idea.......it may or may not work.....but what about if we modify a boom sprayer to blow hot steam out and we use the steam to create a window of dormancy in the clover to get the other crop established??

 

[Foggy47]

How did your forage hold up last season through rifle? Did you run out, or have leftovers get snowed over?

I had nothing when I planted in late August last year.....except for 1/2 acre of clover that always seems to pull through. It's alongside a swamp and the ground stays moist and fertile.

The rest of my ground I had nuked and then drilled with my 14 seed combination of brassicas, clovers, pears and 100 lbs of rye. Just like that the fall rains came and I had great forage in most areas of my plots. Lucked out. Also carried into spring when I had terrific rye and clover ready for the deer after an exptreemly tough winter.

Could not have orchestrated a better plan for last fall. But we did not have many good deer around. We did take 3 for our normal family meat pole. Had no good bucks on camera. No decent buck was killed.....and none were seen. Contrast to this season and I got 6+ decent bucks hanging about.....and lots of doe / fawn groups.

 

[SD51555]

Just an idea.......it may or may not work.....but what about if we modify a boom sprayer to blow hot steam out and we use the steam to create a window of dormancy in the clover to get the other crop established??

I like where your head's at, but that's more than I want to do. Foggy could build a prototype ATV propane flame weeder for me maybe?

I think I'll be ok this season. Where I had good high-carbon biomass last year, that seemed to slow down my clover after mowing enough that I could get the cereals up to some light. It's all different this year though. I've got an extra 3/4 acre coming online that wasn't there last year, and with the moisture already in the bank, that's gonna make one of two things happen:

1. I'm going to have way more food for the same amount of deer.

2. I'm going to have way more deer until the food is gone.

Either way, I'm excited. If I get the cereals through, it's going to be many times more food than LY. If I don't, It'll still likely be 2-3X what I had last season.

 

[Foggy47]

I like where your head's at, but that's more than I want to do. Foggy could build a prototype ATV propane flame weeder for me maybe?

I think I'll be ok this season. Where I had good high-carbon biomass last year, that seemed to slow down my clover after mowing enough that I could get the cereals up to some light. It's all different this year though. I've got an extra 3/4 acre coming online that wasn't there last year, and with the moisture already in the bank, that's gonna make one of two things happen:

1. I'm going to have way more food for the same amount of deer.

2. I'm going to have way more deer until the food is gone.

Either way, I'm excited. If I get the cereals through, it's going to be many times more food than LY. If I don't, It'll still likely be 2-3X what I had last season.

Just did a quick google on using steam to kill weeds. Plausible. Not sure about such use on a small scale......but the idea has merit. My invention days have likely passed me by. Maybe solar power would be SD's department. I can see it now.....a huge magnifying glass crossing food plots and frying everting in sight.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Maybe solar power would be SD's department. I can see it now.....a huge magnifying glass crossing food plots and frying everting in sight.

Think Bond already decommissioned this. It did take a crapload of diamonds to build though. However Bambi and Thumper were more entertaining than the ones I see on my food plots...