Rit
5 year old buck +
48 pounds per acre of cereals yes but a bunch of that being Oats that won’t matter come Spring.
Green Cover Fall release & crimper
- Thread starter Binney59
- Start date
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Whoa Foggy!! You plan to run your drill over your established brassicas?? How many of those brassica plants do you think will survive the tractor tires, drill tires, coulters and closing wheels? Please post some photos when you are done so we can evaluate that strategy.
I always add winter rye over my brassicas a month or so after they come up, but I have never drilled them into my fragile brassicas. I always broadcast the rye and try to avoid even stepping on any of the brassicas while I am doing it.
No question about it - broadcasting is a lot more work than drilling but I would be scared to death to run my drill through my brassicas...
I "spot" pails of rye seed along the way to minimize back tracking while I am broadcasting the seed, but on narrow plots like this, I do most of the broadcasting from the outside edges of the plot to avoid stepping on the brassica plants.
Please let me know if I am missing something? Thanks
Last edited:
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Re: The rate of cereal grains in the cover crop... Keep in mind that you are planting a cover crop (at least I am) for its soil building influence as well as for forage and future thatch. While a thick crop of rye is desirable for a lot of reasons, you really don't want to crowd out the other plants included in the cover crop. Here is a little photo op of a cover crop I planted in 2020 that included only 50#/acre of cereal rye:
Here is my recipe - 77.5#/acre total - only 50#/acre rye. I planted this later than normal - mid-late August I believe
October 8, 2020
The following May 17, 2020 - I drilled sugar beets into the left side of the cover crop and left the right half standing...
June 11, 2020 - Not the thickest crop of rye but my Hairy Vetch, Medium Red and Crimson clovers over wintered well and are providing forage and soil nutrients.
June 16
June 16
July 15 - I normally would have terminated this a week earlier and planted brassicas here but I decided to let the cover crop go for another season. This still would have provided plenty of thatch at this time though...
August 7 - I mowed it with my brush hog to scatter the seed for some free rye to supplement the clovers for fall forage...I don't have a crimper but it would have been nice to see what it looked like had I crimped it rather than mowing it. There is still quite a bit of thatch even from only 50#/acre planted.
August 30 - 3 weeks after mowing. While you can't see it well here, there is quite a bit of rye coming up with the clovers
Here is my recipe - 77.5#/acre total - only 50#/acre rye. I planted this later than normal - mid-late August I believe
October 8, 2020
The following May 17, 2020 - I drilled sugar beets into the left side of the cover crop and left the right half standing...
June 11, 2020 - Not the thickest crop of rye but my Hairy Vetch, Medium Red and Crimson clovers over wintered well and are providing forage and soil nutrients.
June 16
June 16
July 15 - I normally would have terminated this a week earlier and planted brassicas here but I decided to let the cover crop go for another season. This still would have provided plenty of thatch at this time though...
August 7 - I mowed it with my brush hog to scatter the seed for some free rye to supplement the clovers for fall forage...I don't have a crimper but it would have been nice to see what it looked like had I crimped it rather than mowing it. There is still quite a bit of thatch even from only 50#/acre planted.
August 30 - 3 weeks after mowing. While you can't see it well here, there is quite a bit of rye coming up with the clovers
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Thanks Binney. Check out the photos - there were zero weeds as far as I could tell. The biggest issue I had was terminating the Medium Red clovers in the one plot a year and a half later :)
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Hairy Vetch is a very underated food plot seed. Deer absolutely loved it up north in the ADK's in NY. Hairy Vetch is at home in sandy soil too.
Atleast in NY, you need to plant it in the spring to get it go to seed.
Atleast in NY, you need to plant it in the spring to get it go to seed.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
I am not so sure that it is a preferred deer forage here in Upper Michigan, but it does fix a lot of atmospheric N in its roots...
I think this plant was just from volunteer vetch which came up in a plot where I hadn't actually planted any vetch but it still produced some N fixing...
This is Hairy Vetch in June that was planted in a cover crop the previous August.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
I am going to be trying hairy vetch for the first time for my fall overseeding.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Wildthing ... what would you recommend for seeding rate of hairy vetch for broadcast seeding in the fall. Existing foodplot will have clover, soy beans, millets already established? I will also be overseeding with WR.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
The primary purpose for my planting Hairy Vetch is for soil building and nutrient cycling. It produces very good levels of Nitrogen if the seed is inoculated...and I would never plant HV unless it was inoculated seed, because I really want the Nitrogen fixing. If the deer browse on it some - that is OK too.
My local feed mill had Hairy Vetch seed in stock last month but it wasn't inoculated and they didn't have any inoculant for it - plus it was $4.25/#. So I went on-line and found inoculated seed for only $2.99/# (10# bag) and even with shipping from the west coast to Upper Michigan it was only pennies more than the non-inoculated seed locally. It did take about a week to get here but I still got it in plenty of time.
Hairy Vetch Seeds
BTW Tree Spud - the Hairy Vetch you see in the photo I posted above was drilled at 3#/acre in my cover crop mix.
Rit
5 year old buck +
You probably didn’t need to inoculate the seed. With all the stuff you have already planted in the past I’d be surprised if you didn’t have the right bacteria already in the soil. Lentil, peas, and vetch all share the same inoculant.
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
I have never planted lentils and very few peas actually and many of my plots have never had any vetch planted there before either. I know if the specific bacteria is present in the soil you don't need to add any but with vetch I am sure I am better off by using inoculated seed - especially when I can get it cheaper than non-inoculated seed. Better safe than sorry.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
That is my goal also ... soil building, OM, & a heavy thatch layer for weed suppression & moisture retention. I have sandy loam soil so HV should work well.
I can't terminate and get a summer release this summer as my crops such as beans, millets, hybrid sorghum, sun hemp, clover are doing well. I added the millets & sorghum for increased OM. I overseeded last weekend with turnips & forage brassica. This fall I will broadcast HV & WR.
This spring I may try drilling in peas, oats, & sun hemp. Last time I planted sun hemp it did well. Tried peas once and they were eaten very quickly. Hopefully with the WR & sunhemp they will be a bit more protected.
Then plan is to terminate once mature late June. I can then drill in forage turnips & brassicas, radish, millet, & clover. This way I can start to get into a summer release/fall planting cycle with more OM being produced in the spring. My WR was good every spring but was not producing enough carry over thatch for effective soil cover.
Any other recommendations on a mid summer fall food planting? Would you recommend a light addition of HV to the summer planting?
Last edited:
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
Sounds like a good plan Tree Spud. This was my first year planting both a summer cover crop and a fall cover crop - pending. Somehow I managed to forget Hairy Vetch in my mix for the summer crop but I do have it in my fall cover crop and I plan to always include it in future summer cover crops. If you look at the Vitalize Seed Co - @Buckhunter10 has, both his summer mix, Nitro Boost, and his fall mix, Carbon Load, include Hairy Vetch...and for good reason. It goes a long way towards helping us achieve our goals of building and maintaining healthy soils.
The other thing I plan to do that is different this year is to go ahead and drill my fall cover crop into the summer cover crop, but I will be doing this earlier than normal - like within the next week (if I ever see any rain coming). The draw back to planting the fall cover crop early is that, while most everything in the seed mix will benefit from an early planting, the cereal grain component will likely be too tall and much less palatable for a fall attraction. As such, I am only including 10#/acre each of oats, wheat and rye in with the rest of the cover crop mix. That will provide a little early season forage, but the bulk of the cereal grains will be broadcasted over top of the cover crop at the end of August, giving me a more desirable and more palatable fall forage for my deer.
Yes, this includes an extra step (and a lot more work than drilling the seed once), but I think it will provide a better cover crop... IDK - maybe I am overthinking it?? :)
Last edited:
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I’ve been thinking of same thing.
Are you going to terminate your summer crop in any way? Crimp? Cut? Spray?
Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
A couple of my summer cover crops have some unwanted weeds in them so I will spray those first before planting the fall cover crop. Those that don't have any weed issues I plan to just drill right through the summer cover crop. I purposely planted the summer cover crops at a lighter rate (40#/acre), anticipating that I would drill the fall crop through the standing summer crop.
I've been planting fall food plots in Georgia for the past few years with a no till drill. Now have access to the roller crimper. Summer plots here are generally a waste of time and money. Tried again this year with a Green Cover Summer Blend but as usual lack of rain and heat led to almost no germination or growth.
No preparing for fall planting. As usual food plots are overgrown with combination of weeds and grass 2-3 feet tall. I'd prefer not to spray herbicide so that I can plant into some cover.
Options would appear to be:
1. Bush hog next couple of weeks, let things continue to grow and roller/crimp before planting
2. Bush hog next few weeks and plant into existing growth without roller/crimp
3. Do not bush hog, roller/crimp just before planting and plant into remaining material
4. Bush hog just before planting and plant into remaining material
Thoughts?
No preparing for fall planting. As usual food plots are overgrown with combination of weeds and grass 2-3 feet tall. I'd prefer not to spray herbicide so that I can plant into some cover.
Options would appear to be:
1. Bush hog next couple of weeks, let things continue to grow and roller/crimp before planting
2. Bush hog next few weeks and plant into existing growth without roller/crimp
3. Do not bush hog, roller/crimp just before planting and plant into remaining material
4. Bush hog just before planting and plant into remaining material
Thoughts?
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
I don't think the roller crimper is going to do you allot of good.....unless you have long grasses or rye, wheat or oats. For general weeds.....your going to need to do a mow and /or chemical burn down.....IMO.
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
A few things became evident to me this summer for my land up here in Zone 3. This is now my first full year of no-till and planting a diverse mix of legumes, grasses, and brassica. I have performed no tillage this year.....and no fertilizer.....and little chemical until recently. I got some great clover plots....but could now use a little rain. My observations are.....
1. The longer I leave the Winter Rye stand in the summer.....the better it's alleopatic effects on weeds and the better my clovers and underlying crops can grow. Letting the Rye grow until just before it becomes viable seed seems to make lots of sense......and I get more bio-mass.....and this year that termination could have been mid July or later for me. (I pushed it 'cause I wanted a summer "release"). At this point a "summer release" is off the table for me.
2. With Mid July being a termination date.....that eliminates any spring work and most chemical treatments. ($$) Saves seed and any fertilizer expense too. Would not need to worry about mowing fawns.....and the rye would provide cover for newly born fawns too. Weed control (chemicals) is prolonged.
3. After roller crimping the rye.....sometime in July......I could burn down some areas for fall brasica plot planting with my drill......also could still plant soy beans and pumpkins......and use other areas as clover plots through August. Also can plant "green" into the standing rye with my drill......and that could likely be the best means (somewhat depending on what crops follow).
4. In late August or Early September......I would broadcast winter Rye, clovers, and perhaps again some brassica - somewhat depending on the success of the prior July efforts.
One thing that bugs at me is my lack of success with broadcasting rye in the fall. However I have normally broadcast into row crops onto bare ground.....as compared to broadcasting into a diverse mixture of thatch and growing cover crops. I know I gotta take a shot at this.......it's just that all my experience says "don't go down that broadcast rabbit hole again".
Fly's on this plan? Other ideas? Remember I am in Zone 3 - Northern MN. Thanks!
It sure sounds simple.
1. The longer I leave the Winter Rye stand in the summer.....the better it's alleopatic effects on weeds and the better my clovers and underlying crops can grow. Letting the Rye grow until just before it becomes viable seed seems to make lots of sense......and I get more bio-mass.....and this year that termination could have been mid July or later for me. (I pushed it 'cause I wanted a summer "release"). At this point a "summer release" is off the table for me.
2. With Mid July being a termination date.....that eliminates any spring work and most chemical treatments. ($$) Saves seed and any fertilizer expense too. Would not need to worry about mowing fawns.....and the rye would provide cover for newly born fawns too. Weed control (chemicals) is prolonged.
3. After roller crimping the rye.....sometime in July......I could burn down some areas for fall brasica plot planting with my drill......also could still plant soy beans and pumpkins......and use other areas as clover plots through August. Also can plant "green" into the standing rye with my drill......and that could likely be the best means (somewhat depending on what crops follow).
4. In late August or Early September......I would broadcast winter Rye, clovers, and perhaps again some brassica - somewhat depending on the success of the prior July efforts.
One thing that bugs at me is my lack of success with broadcasting rye in the fall. However I have normally broadcast into row crops onto bare ground.....as compared to broadcasting into a diverse mixture of thatch and growing cover crops. I know I gotta take a shot at this.......it's just that all my experience says "don't go down that broadcast rabbit hole again".
Fly's on this plan? Other ideas? Remember I am in Zone 3 - Northern MN. Thanks!
It sure sounds simple.
Last edited:
