Grant woods

[Foggy47]

He threw down fighting words this week.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/no-fertilizer-no-herbicide-the-best-food-plot-process-part-2

He claimed a crimper was better than a flail mower or sickle bar mower. What's interesting, is nobody has ever mentioned a sicklebar mower on any habitat forum I've been on, until it was brought up here a week or two ago. I'm a pretty Christian fella, but you can't be trash talking the flail mowers. There wouldn't be any crimson clover standing back up if a flail mower did that job.

I have never owned a sickle bar mower.....and have nothing against them. However I have sold lots of sickle bar knives, wear bars, rivets, and wear parts....likely enough to build three Subarus. Those mowers can lay the crop down in a fair way....but that tool would be pretty low on my list of things to control rye for food plotting. My 2 cents.

I have read so many articles and watched so much video on knowledgeable folks whom claim that the roller / crimper is the superior tool for terminating rye. Why do you resist what is proven to be the best method? Some years ago sickle bar mowers were replaced by disk mowers. I would not invest in this for food plotting purposes.....just say'in. Sure, if you have one try it. Sure, you can get by with other means at times.....and I think a cultipacker could do a pretty fair job at times....as can other tools.......but if you want the best way to do this.....it appears the roller / crimper is the real deal.

Your honor.....I rest my case. Grin ;)

(OH....and I absolutely love the way RTP made an owners manual for the Goliath Crimper. I think it's the best manual I have ever received....although that product is not too complicated.).

 

[SD51555]

...if you want the best way to do this.....it appears the roller / crimper is the real deal.

By what metric?

I'm sure it works well, but it's being positioned as the Sasha Banks of plotting methods. Throw and mow was bullet proof before the drill and crimper came along and made a proven idea a lot more expensive. I am not keen on killing rye early anyway. Most anywhere, a good stand of rye is gonna have all kinds of wildlife resting/nesting in it when it comes time to squeeze in a summer blend. I'm letting all mine go to early august so I don't hit any fawns, ducks, or rabbits. Throw, mow, profit.

 

[Foggy47]

He threw down fighting words this week.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/#/no-fertilizer-no-herbicide-the-best-food-plot-process-part-2

He claimed a crimper was better than a flail mower or sickle bar mower. What's interesting, is nobody has ever mentioned a sicklebar mower on any habitat forum I've been on, until it was brought up here a week or two ago. I'm a pretty Christian fella, but you can't be trash talking the flail mowers. There wouldn't be any crimson clover standing back up if a flail mower did that job.

When all you got is a hammer.....everything looks like a nail. Grin. Flail away. lol

 

[SD51555]

When all you got is a hammer.....everything looks like a nail. Grin. Flail away. lol

I get excitable about the flail mower.

 

[SwampCat]

Speaking of throw n mow - I have yet to have a great plot using this method that I did not put in right before a rain. I guess if you just have an acre or two - you can time it right. If you plant forty acres like me, no way can you time it all right. I keep trying and acre or two every year - and I keep waiting to hear myself say “that looks good”.

 

[Foggy47]

Speaking of throw n mow - I have yet to have a great plot using this method that I did not put in right before a rain. I guess if you just have an acre or two - you can time it right. If you plant forty acres like me, no way can you time it all right. I keep trying and acre or two every year - and I keep waiting to hear myself say “that looks good”.

Your so right. You can do many things on a small scale and rapidly alter a plan depending on the circumstances.....but that becomes more difficult with the more land you work with. I do just ten acres of plots.....but that is lots more work than three like I did a few years back. Getting rid of tillage via no till drill is a huge step for me....so is roller crimping.....I hope.

 

[Mortenson]

What are the odds I can get coated sugar beet seed to grow, throw and mow style under a dense blanket of rotary cut rye? Much over zero? I'll be looking for a big rain in the forecast.

 

[SD51555]

Speaking of throw n mow - I have yet to have a great plot using this method that I did not put in right before a rain. I guess if you just have an acre or two - you can time it right. If you plant forty acres like me, no way can you time it all right. I keep trying and acre or two every year - and I keep waiting to hear myself say “that looks good”.

What are you throwing, and what are you mowing, and when?

 

[SwampCat]

Your so right. You can do many things on a small scale and rapidly alter a plan depending on the circumstances.....but that becomes more difficult with the more land you work with. I do just ten acres of plots.....but that is lots more work than three like I did a few years back. Getting rid of tillage via no till drill is a huge step for me....so is roller crimping.....I hope.

The good with the bad - as I purchased more efficient equipment (I now use an 84” Woods Seeder) - I expanded the acreage that I now plant. I dont know that I saved much of my time - but I plant a whole lot more acres. Pretty easily do 30 acres in three days

 

[SwampCat]

What are you throwing, and what are you mowing, and when?

Wheat, rye and various clovers. I do this in early October, and it is four foot tall weeds - johnson grass, other various grasses, ragweeds, etc. - usually about 4 ft tall

 

[SD51555]

I think you need a finished plant to lay down, something that can hold back all those other weeds. I don't know that any of our gadgets is gonna help with those conditions until you get a handle on those weeds.

Tough part for you, is you have a really long season down there compared to the short season we've got up north. We can make rye go from spring green up to fall planting and not have any weeds get in anytime during. I'm not sure what a good warm season mow-killable crop could follow rye and not present a management challenge after. Maybe a grain sorghum if you can mow-kill it before it sets viable seed. But who knows if that'll keep you covered long enough to make it to fall planting times.

 

[SwampCat]

I think you need a finished plant to lay down, something that can hold back all those other weeds. I don't know that any of our gadgets is gonna help with those conditions until you get a handle on those weeds.

Tough part for you, is you have a really long season down there compared to the short season we've got up north. We can make rye go from spring green up to fall planting and not have any weeds get in anytime during. I'm not sure what a good warm season mow-killable crop could follow rye and not present a management challenge after. Maybe a grain sorghum if you can mow-kill it before it sets viable seed. But who knows if that'll keep you covered long enough to make it to fall planting times.

My rye is already starting to lay down. I cant imagine what annual crop could be planted in the fall here in the south and still be standing come October. Plus, I am not really crazy about rye unless it is in a food plot I know I dont have a chance to hunt a turkey. The rye will be so tall by turkey season, that the gobblers dont care to get in it. I find wheat works better for me and my deer prefer wheat over rye - but if they dont have wheat, they seem to eat rye ok.

 

[356]

That episode is amazing. I’m sold on no till

I had an interesting meeting with a one of the early no-till farmers from NE Missouri. He has an MA in Agricultural Science and farmed about 1000 acres. He started no-till in the late 60s, using a combination of disk and no-till to compare the results—no till won hands down. Today he is in his 90s and is an advocate for the release method (he called it “low input”) and using cover crops and no-till for commercial farming. What was very clear from our conversation was 1) Tilling ruins the soil, 2) All costs, including fuel, fertilizer, time and bushels per acre must be taken into consideration 3) Recovering soil that has been tilled takes time and “high input” until the appropriate rotations and cover crops are established.

Again, this is from a commercial farmer, and may not apply to food plots. However, Grant did reference commercial farmers in his latest episode and it was fortuitous to speak with one about the method.

 

[Wild Thing]

What are the odds I can get coated sugar beet seed to grow, throw and mow style under a dense blanket of rotary cut rye? Much over zero? I'll be looking for a big rain in the forecast.

Slim to none IMO Mortenson. In my experience, and I have planted RR sugar beets many times, any seed that doesn't get buried does not germinate. The first plot of sugar beets I broadcasted many years ago and it was very apparent that none of the seed on top of the soil germinated. I have been drilling sugar beets for the past 6 years and have made the same observation. The seed that sits on top of the soil does not germinate.

The seed that was covered with soil germinated but the one next to it on top of the soil did not.



Same here - those buried germinated fine - those on top never did germinate...


If you can get them all into the seed trench and the press wheel firms up the trench they will germinate fine..


RR sugar beet seed is way too expensive to take a chance on having a complete failure. I just don't think it is a good candidate for throw and mow.

 

[Foggy47]

^ That was my experience with sugar beets too. But when I was doing so I was attempting a monoculture of sugar beets and keeping the weeds under control was the hardest part. I lost on two occasions as I could not be there to control the weeds. I'm done with SB's.

 

[omicron1792]

I had an interesting meeting with a one of the early no-till farmers from NE Missouri. He has an MA in Agricultural Science and farmed about 1000 acres. He started no-till in the late 60s, using a combination of disk and no-till to compare the results—no till won hands down. Today he is in his 90s and is an advocate for the release method (he called it “low input”) and using cover crops and no-till for commercial farming. What was very clear from our conversation was 1) Tilling ruins the soil, 2) All costs, including fuel, fertilizer, time and bushels per acre must be taken into consideration 3) Recovering soil that has been tilled takes time and “high input” until the appropriate rotations and cover crops are established.

Again, this is from a commercial farmer, and may not apply to food plots. However, Grant did reference commercial farmers in his latest episode and it was fortuitous to speak with one about the method.

Great post. I love it.

 

[Bassattackr]

My rye is already starting to lay down. I cant imagine what annual crop could be planted in the fall here in the south and still be standing come October. Plus, I am not really crazy about rye unless it is in a food plot I know I dont have a chance to hunt a turkey. The rye will be so tall by turkey season, that the gobblers dont care to get in it. I find wheat works better for me and my deer prefer wheat over rye - but if they dont have wheat, they seem to eat rye ok.

My experiences as well..

 

[Wild Thing]

^ That was my experience with sugar beets too. But when I was doing so I was attempting a monoculture of sugar beets and keeping the weeds under control was the hardest part. I lost on two occasions as I could not be there to control the weeds. I'm done with SB's.

I spray them usually twice and have a pretty clean field. Around the 2nd week of July I broadcast my brassica mix (which includes 4# of clovers) into the rows/thin spots and I am done spraying after that. If I can broadcast some rye into the plot in August without damaging any plants (usually just the outside edges) I will broadcast rye and have my soil covered until the next summer when I plant a cover crop.

July 5th last year...Broadcasted brassica mix (including 2# each of Crimson & Med Red Clover) about a week later...


July 21...


August 16...Broadcasted rye around the edges some because I didn't want to be stepping on young brassica plants...


May 17th this year...About 2 weeks ago. Keeping my soil covered with living roots as many days of the year as possible...

 

[Wild Thing]

I visited Grant Woods' "Proving Grounds" for his weekend "Field Days" event in 2015. At the time I was still turning dirt and practicing maybe a little bit of throw & mow. The next winter I purchased the drill you see in my avatar here and started 100% No-Till and Cover Cropping. Here is an example of where I have come since then.

This is a 3.5 acre destination plot (horseshoe shaped) plot we call the Camp 94 Field. This is a soil test from when I opened the plot up in 2013


The first couple years I picked rocks and wood out of the plot, added ag-lime and fertilizer and then started no-till and cover cropping in 2016. Here is my soil test from last year before I planted. Beginning this year I am completely abandoning the use of synthetic fertilizers - I don't need them anymore.


Another observation we have made is that this field was always flooded in the spring and sometimes well into summer...




This photo was taken June 6th, 2019 - still wet...


Because my soil is now much better at absorbing water and allowing it to infiltrate the soil, I no longer have standing water in this field. This photo was taken May 12, 2021...


This photo was taken May 4, 2022 - no more standing water.


Yes - I am a total convert to regenerative ag, healthy soils, no-till, cover cropping and zero inputs. You won't see me turning dirt ever again.

 

[omicron1792]

So cool Wild Thing.