All Things Habitat - Lets talk.....

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Graft Union

NorthWI

5 year old buck +
I planted 8 apple/crabs from SLN last spring with the graft union below ground as they reccomend. (Zone 3)I have more crabapples coming this spring from the advise I have heard on here. Just wondering if you see any difference by planting the graft union under ground or above ground with Ant rootstock?
 
I planted 8 apple/crabs from SLN last spring with the graft union below ground as they reccomend. (Zone 3)I have more crabapples coming this spring from the advise I have heard on here. Just wondering if you see any difference by planting the graft union under ground or above ground with Ant rootstock?

I have ordered from them several times and I can’t remember seeing that notice.

Is that just for zone 3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is from there planting guide...
How deeply to set fruit trees

When planting standard size grafted fruit trees like ours, it is best to encourage them to become at least partially “own-rooted,” that is, to promote rooting above the graft union. To accomplish this, you must plant grafted apples, pears, plums and cherry trees an inch or two deeper than they were in the nursery, with the graft union (near the root collar) below the ground. (See photo below).
treelevel_large.GIF
cropgraftinhole_copy_large.GIF
outlinedgraftbrcon_copy_large.GIF
 
"The graft is sometimes hard for an unpracticed eye to locate, but will look like a healed diagonal scar on the stem that resembles a "Z." Don't worry if you can't see the graft. Simply find where you think the soil level was before, and plant the tree an inch or two deeper than that level. What was formerly the aboveground portion (the scion above the graft) will sprout new roots just under the soil surface, and these roots will be from the actual cultivar*, rather than from the rootstock onto which it was grafted. If the tree is ever damaged and then sends up sprouts from the base, these will likely be growing from above the graft rather than from the rootstock, and will make a new tree of the same variety. Use this recommendation only if you are planting a standard size tree, since planting a dwarf fruit tree in this manner will negate the dwarfing influence of the rootstock." From SLN
 
I brought this to Connors attention last year. He said he recommends planting with the graft an inch or 2 above the soil line. And that there must of been a typo in planting instructions. See that has not been addressed/changed.

For what little it matters.
I've been planting all mine with graft above soil line.
 
They go into detail about why to do it this way so It seems like more than a typo. But I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has noticed a difference from planting above or below the graft union with standard size rootstock
 
Look at Post #3 in the following thread and you will see why there could be differences in one rootstock versus another - even if both of them are full sized rootstocks:

PS: There is some other rootstock information in the thread that you might also find interesting:

http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?t...pple-tree-knowledge-thread.10487/#post-190622
 
I planted 8 apple/crabs from SLN last spring with the graft union below ground as they reccomend. (Zone 3)I have more crabapples coming this spring from the advise I have heard on here. Just wondering if you see any difference by planting the graft union under ground or above ground with Ant rootstock?

I plant all of mine with the graft union buried, as long as the graft is not too high, and they seem to do fine. But I want full-sized, self-rooted trees that will eventually grow beyond the reach of deer & elk.
 
Last edited:
The whole purpose of buying a grafted tree is so you have the disease resistants and get the height desired. Otherwise, you might as well just graft onto any wild apple/crabapple seeding and just bury the graft.
 
Most of the purchased apple trees I've planted I tried to have the graft slightly above ground, but sometimes the execution isn't quite there. And then I usually try to dump 4" of rock around the base of the tree, so what's technically happening in that case? I suppose the graft becomes buried.
 
Most of the purchased apple trees I've planted I tried to have the graft slightly above ground, but sometimes the execution isn't quite there. And then I usually try to dump 4" of rock around the base of the tree, so what's technically happening in that case? I suppose the graft becomes buried.
If above the graft union roots, then you will get a full-sized treen you will not get any benefits of the rootstock.
 
Probably a dumb question. Can you get roots from both? Or if roots from the above graft tree decide they can develop in the crushed limestone, will they snuff out the rootstock roots? Rootstock would be off to a decent headstart it seems.
 
Probably a dumb question. Can you get roots from both? Or if roots from the above graft tree decide they can develop in the crushed limestone, will they snuff out the rootstock roots? Rootstock would be off to a decent headstart it seems.
Roots can develop above the graft at any time there is enough moisture for roots to grow. If the roots from above the graft take, eventually you will have the makings of a full size tree and no rootstock.
 
An old University of Wisconsin Extension article I have says it is okay to plant trees on standard rootstock with the graft union above ground or below ground. When we plunk bulk orders into the ground, I tell the crew not to worry about the graft union depth if they hit a rock. Otherwise they are to try to bury the union. I think that offers the tree a root diversity choice. I don't know if that works out better or not. That's just been my theory.
 
I plant all of mine with the graft union buried, as long as the graft is not too high, and they seem to do fine. But I want full-sized, self-rooted trees that will eventually grow beyond the reach of deer & elk.

Another reason that I plant all my wildlife apples/crabs with the graft union buried, even on full-sized rootstock, is that if the tree is girdled by rodents, broken off by a bear, or otherwise damaged or killed, there is at least a chance that the resulting sprouts will be from the scion, instead of the rootstock.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I deff wouldn't plant the graft line below ground, I'm grafting to a rootstock for a reason.
 
I leave graft a couple inches above dirt, I want full advantage of the rootstock.
 
Yeah I deff wouldn't plant the graft line below ground, I'm grafting to a rootstock for a reason.


I've never tried this, but I've always wondered about it. What would happen if one planted an apple on semi-dwarf rootstock with the graft an inch above the soil. At this point the tree would grow as a typical semi-dwarf tree and produce fruit in accordance with that timeline. Now here is the "what if" part. Suppose after the tree started fruiting well, you mounded soil around the tree well above the graft. Would it produce it's own roots and eventually become a full sized tree? Would it keep up the fruit production or would it revert to vegetative growth for a while before continuing fruit production?

A few years back, I took a grafting class at a local orchard. The old Master Grafter teaching the class told us all kinds of stories about what they did when he was young. There were times when they wanted a full size tree grown on its own roots. He would graft a scion to clonal rootstock, plant the tree upside down with the graft union below the ground. He said the clonal roostock would keep the tree alive long enough to produce its own roots and then eventually die because it was upside down but by then the tree would have enough of its own roots to survive.

He also spoke of running out of rootstock and simply digging up some roots from a tree on clonal rootstock and grafting directly to a root.

I find it all interesting.

All this came to mind today. I called the orchard and they said they had M111 in stock so I headed over. A few years back, when I took the class, they were toying with the idea of selling scions so I asked if that every worked out. They told me they tried for two years but it just didn't work out so they don't sell them any more. I was just going to grab a half dozen rootstock for some scions I grabbed from the farm, but they happened to be finishing the grafting class for this year as I arrived. They were kind enough to give me some leftover sticks of Arkansas Black and Black Twig, so I bought a dozen M111.

I spent the afternoon grafting. Some of the scions from my young trees were pretty small and some of their M111 were pretty large in diameter. So, I tried a new graft, a Z-graft. Here is a video:
I think it may have been discussed here before. It took me a while to get the hang of it. Most of the scions had a diameter match with the root stock, but for those who didn't, I tried the Z-graft. It doesn't seem as tight as a W&T but seems to have more cambium contact than a single sided W&T. Because it is not as tight, I think it will benefit from some pressure so I used grafting rubbers rather than freezer tape. Time will tell how the Z-graft works for me.

Anyone else tried it?

Thanks,

Jack
 
Yoder. From what little Iititure I've read. Once the tree sets roots and is established.

Mounding soil around the truck base will result in decay and rotting. Setting back or killing the tree.

Now the timeline between planted and established could probably be debated. I just choose to not dive that far into the weeds.
 
Last edited:
Yoder. From what little Iititure I've read. Once the tree sets roots and is established.

Mounding soil around the truck base will results in decay and rotting. Setting back or killing the tree.

Yes, I think there comes a point at which the trunk does not root easily like when young. I'm not sure where that point is. I'm not sure if there is a sweet spot in between.
 
Top