GP/LP 3P600 or 3P606NT user thread

[Wind Gypsy]

Before thinking about forces at play in depth, I increased the "down pressure" settings on every row on my esch thinking it might get everything to depth easier - the drill performed worse. Then I read that user manual and it advised against doing that. The different rates are really just to be able to allocate more of the drills total weight on certain rows in your tire tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if @Brian662's drill worked better if he set the 2 rows in the tire tracks back to the factory setting so more down pressure was available to the 7 other rows.

 

[omicron1792]

Before thinking about forces at play in depth, I increased the "down pressure" settings on every row on my esch thinking it might get everything to depth easier - the drill performed worse. Then I read that user manual and it advised against doing that. The different rates are really just to be able to allocate more of the drills total weight on certain rows in your tire tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if @Brian662's drill worked better if he set the 2 rows in the tire tracks back to the factory setting so more down pressure was available to the 7 other rows.

That’s a good point. Doubt he row crops enough to really have tire compression areas requiring different settings

 

[Wind Gypsy]

That’s a good point. Doubt he row crops enough to really have tire compression areas requiring different settings

I'd guess that the difference in pressure needed to the rows in the tracks is probably greater if you're drilling into tilled ground.

Edit to add: Iff'n I were @Brian662 I'd probably try the drive wheel up one hole and put all row unit springs to factory settings before giving up on it.

 

[Brian662]

I'd guess that the difference in pressure needed to the rows in the tracks is probably greater if you're drilling into tilled ground.

Edit to add: Iff'n I were @Brian662 I'd probably try the drive wheel up one hole and put all row unit springs to factory settings before giving up on it.

Now that the weight added to the machine allows it to operate on a level plane, I'm going to move the drive wheel up one more slot as you mention. Hopefully this can increase weight slightly on the double discs to increase cutting ability. Even if it requires the drill to run slightly negative in regards to a level plane (to ensure drive wheel engagement), I believe this will allow for the best cutting options.

I also agree with you and Omicron that there will be limited compaction opportunities with my small tractor(relative) on untilled soil and I'm probably best to move the two outer springs back to factory.

As far as an update for Foggy, I'm going to try these changes and utilize the drill once more to see how the results change (if any).
After that, they're calling for rain Thursday night as well as Sat/Sunday so I hope to have the opportunity to drill into moist soil to see how well the drill performs under those conditions.

Lots of small changes possible before I'm willing to give up on the drill, I haven't given it a fair shake yet. At least the weight added was able to level out the drill for operation, so we are moving in the right direction, IMO.

 

[Foggy47]

Now that the weight added to the machine allows it to operate on a level plane, I'm going to move the drive wheel up one more slot as you mention. Hopefully this can increase weight slightly on the double discs to increase cutting ability. Even if it requires the drill to run slightly negative in regards to a level plane (to ensure drive wheel engagement), I believe this will allow for the best cutting options.

I also agree with you and Omicron that there will be limited compaction opportunities with my small tractor(relative) on untilled soil and I'm probably best to move the two outer springs back to factory.

As far as an update for Foggy, I'm going to try these changes and utilize the drill once more to see how the results change (if any).
After that, they're calling for rain Thursday night as well as Sat/Sunday so I hope to have the opportunity to drill into moist soil to see how well the drill performs under those conditions.

Lots of small changes possible before I'm willing to give up on the drill, I haven't given it a fair shake yet. At least the weight added was able to level out the drill for operation, so we are moving in the right direction, IMO.

OK.....but you do not show the press wheel depth in any pics here. Have you tried to reposition them for better depth? Good luck.

 

[Brian662]

The press wheel T handles are currently set at the 2nd hole from the back of the drill.

Original (factory) setting was 4th hole from the back of the drill and moved them further back to the 2nd hole upon recommendation from this forum.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The press wheel T handles are currently set at the 2nd hole from the back of the drill.

Original (factory) setting was 4th hole from the back of the drill and moved them further back to the 2nd hole upon recommendation from this forum.

Like they were in 2nd to deepest setting (B Direction on the below image)?


IMO it seems like it's a delicate balance on the drive wheel and closing wheel settings. Both have to allow opener to get in the ground but if either is set too deep, the closing wheels wont have enough pressure left to cover seeds in many cases.

With drive wheel in Slot 5 (1 1/8" opener depth according to manual), I found i could only get down pressure on closing wheels set on the 3rd or 4th setting from the shallow end. Otherwise the openers weren't going deep enough to even have consistent down force on the closing wheels.

Edit to add: I saw that this manual also says not to increase spring tension on all rows like my Esch did, which makes sense to me.

 

[Brian662]

Like they were in 2nd to deepest setting (B Direction on the below image)?
View attachment 68448

IMO it seems like it's a delicate balance on the drive wheel and closing wheel settings. Both have to allow opener to get in the ground but if either is set too deep, the closing wheels wont have enough pressure left to cover seeds in many cases.

With drive wheel in Slot 5 (1 1/8" opener depth according to manual), I found i could only get down pressure on closing wheels set on the 3rd or 4th setting from the shallow end. Otherwise the openers weren't going deep enough to even have consistent down force on the closing wheels.

Edit to add: I saw that this manual also says not to increase spring tension on all rows like my Esch did, which makes sense to me.
View attachment 68449

Yes, they are set for 2 slots from the "B" position currently, factory was 4 slots from "B". If I go from slot 7 to 6 or even 5 on the drive wheel, where would you recommend I set the T handles?

As to your edit, that's why I did that on the springs over my tire tracks.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yes, they are set for 2 slots from the "B" position currently, factory was 4 slots from "B". If I go from slot 7 to 6 or even 5 on the drive wheel, where would you recommend I set the T handles?

Is there actually down pressure on the closing wheels at that setting? If I go beyond 4 back my openers don’t go deep enough to have down pressure on the closing wheels. That’s with drive wheel in slot #5. They touch the ground but if I stop and get off, I can lift some up by hand a bit meaning the weight of the wheel is the only down pressure on them.

 

[Brian662]

You've got those press wheels set pretty deep. I would have guessed with that setting and if openers are only getting 1/2" deep that you wouldn't have any notable pressure on the press wheels?

Is there actually down pressure on the closing wheels at that setting? If I go beyond 4 back my openers don’t go deep enough to have down pressure on the closing wheels. That’s with drive wheel in slot #5. They touch the ground but if I stop and get off, I can lift some up by hand a bit meaning the weight of the wheel is the only down pressure on them.

To be honest I don't know what the down pressure is but my ground was so crusted I don't think the press wheels would press much seed in anyways.

I'll have to play around with it once I change my drive wheel setting again.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

This thread makes me not want to get a no-till drill even though they were on my long-term shopping list! I only want one if it would save me time and some seed cost, but it sure sounds like it takes a lot of tinkering to get them to work correctly.

On a somewhat related note, are the 3 point no-till corn and bean planters less fussy or are these kinds of continuous adjustments needed to get them working as well?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

This thread makes me not want to get a no-till drill even though they were on my long-term shopping list! I only want one if it would save me time and some seed cost, but it sure sounds like it takes a lot of tinkering to get them to work correctly.

On a somewhat related note, are the 3 point no-till corn and bean planters less fussy or are these kinds of continuous adjustments needed to get them working as well?

Much of this is talking about "min-till" drills to be used as no-till and in some applications they don't perform perfectly. In addition to that, most of us are new to these specific drills. After getting the bugs worked out I expect in many cases it's just a "hook up and go" operation, its definitely that way with my Esch No-till drill.

In general, pull type are less finicky to get set up as well.

 

[Brian662]

One year worth of growing pains will be worth the 20+ years of drill work, IMO.

Relative to a corn/bean planter these drills are a little trickier but those planters (I have a 4 row JD7000) still require maintenance, cleaning, parts replacement, etc. They are still chain driven, have coulters, discs, bearings, etc. Good news is unlike a farmer we may get 10 acres in most cases out of a drill per year, the stuff lasts a long time that way.

By comparison I'm trying to get 9 rows of double discs with ~500# less weight to penetrate the same soil as 4 rows with coulters and row cleaners. Apples and oranges

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

One year worth of growing pains will be worth the 20+ years of drill work, IMO.

Relative to a corn/bean planter these drills are a little trickier but those planters (I have a 4 row JD7000) still require maintenance, cleaning, parts replacement, etc. They are still chain driven, have coulters, discs, bearings, etc. Good news is unlike a farmer we may get 10 acres in most cases out of a drill per year, the stuff lasts a long time that way.

By comparison I'm trying to get 9 rows of double discs with ~500# less weight to penetrate the same soil as 4 rows with coulters and row cleaners. Apples and oranges

I'll be interested to hear how these drills work for you guys after year 1. I've watched plenty of videos showing them work awesome, but many of those videos were produced by guys sponsored by the drill companies so I take those glowing reviews with a grain of salt. The no-till drills are very impressive in those videos though.

 

[Foggy47]

This thread makes me not want to get a no-till drill even though they were on my long-term shopping list! I only want one if it would save me time and some seed cost, but it sure sounds like it takes a lot of tinkering to get them to work correctly.

On a somewhat related note, are the 3 point no-till corn and bean planters less fussy or are these kinds of continuous adjustments needed to get them working as well?

Couple thoughts here. I just came home from my land today. Took a look at some of the worst plots I have (beach sand) and they are still green.....as a result of keeping roots in the ground all season long. In other years I would have planted about 3 weeks ago (after tilling the ground and working the dirt)......and we have had NO rain in that period. My seeds would be sitting in dry sand and I would have a bust for a draw this fall.

As it is....I have rye that has germinated and will make it to the next rainfall (later this week?) and I have decent clover and chicory that is doing just fine and numerous deer feeding each day. Yep....the growth without rain is slow......but it's all alive and I am not concerned about the situation today.

I think some of the drill issues discussed here come with a new drill and new operators that are not familiar with the operation. Then too.....Brian is trying to use a conventional drill in a tough no till situation. Years back, I can remember farmers with a new plow or a new disk comparing how they would not penetrate well or do a good job. Standard advice was to "put a shine not those sharers" or disk blades by pulling it through some sandy ground. I think this may help in Brian's case too. Just drive it around with as much force as possible on those openers in some sandy ground (extend the top link even if the front wheel does not contact the ground and set the closing wheels for deep - thus carrying all the load on those openers) and they may penetrate better.

I know my disk got better with time.....and so did my drill as I got a shine on those blades. That may prove some benefit here too.

Today I picked up my closing wheel on my drill.....and I could raise them each about 2" before the spring resistance was felt.....at which time I could not lift them easily. May want to see how much you can lift your closing wheels before a similar situation? My drill is hurrying seeds from the main seed box somewhere around 1" deep .....for comparison sake.

 

[swat1018]

I'll be interested to hear how these drills work for you guys after year 1. I've watched plenty of videos showing them work awesome, but many of those videos were produced by guys sponsored by the drill companies so I take those glowing reviews with a grain of salt. The no-till drills are very impressive in those videos though.

There are plenty of us using them quite successfully here. I've been running one since about 2012 or 2013.

 

[Brian662]

Adjusted the drive wheel from 6 to 5, tensioned the chain. Lowered spring tension on all rows back to factory setting and moved the T handles up to F -4 position. Going to plant some more tomorrow evening with rain in the forecast Thursday through Monday. Will play with the press wheel force when planting to see if it makes a difference in my hard ground.


Foggy I inspected my double discs a little and they are a little shiny in spots, with a few nicks I assume from rocks. Unfortunately I don't have any sandy soil to just drag the drill through, maybe next spring I can find some bare dirt and tinker with it some more. The latest settings I have now are just going to have to do for this fall.

 

[Brian662]

Ran the drill about another 1.5 acres tonight, the first .6 acres was in better soil that was rye thatch covered and the drill planted between .5" to 1" deep. Only real issue in this plot was the grade of the field. Every time I changed direction I had to adjust the tilt function to level the drill and try to ensure equal pressure on all openers, not the end of the world but some rows wouldn't be completely buried because of the drill tilt.

Moved to a different property with hard soil crust and had the same results as before. Drill wouldn't dig down into the crust and 80% of seed wasn't buried. I think going forward into next year I will just have to plant into semi moist soil and it should alleviate my problems.

Messed with the press wheels on the soft soil and it seemed to make a difference depending on setting. Didn't make a damn bit of difference on the hard crust.

 

[Deadlift]

Hello! Just joined this forum and am enjoying catching up on all these posts. I have a Great Plains 3P600


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[Foggy47]

Hello! Just joined this forum and am enjoying catching up on all these posts. I have a Great Plains 3P600


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Welcome Deadlift. Glad you found this site. Another Minnesotan with a 3P600 drill. Enjoy

Deadlift may have land in the farthest most north-west areas of MN....of any other on this site.