Fruit Trees- Regional Preferences-Crab apples?

[sandbur]

I was looking at the other forum and found a post from Virginia asking about apples. Someone suggested that pears are a better choice for the south.

Appleman posted his best deer apples for the northeast. I think all were regular apples. I don't believe maya uses many crab apples in the northeast.

Once we get into zone 3, are crabpples the preference for deer , or are they just a sandbur thing?

 

[CrazyEd]

I'm a fan of diversity. the more variety you can offer the better. that's why I have a mix of apples, crabapples and pears. what appeals to one might not appeal to another. Stu likes Tolman Sweet apples, I don't really care for them. Deer could very well be the same way. I don't believe in regional preferences. that's my opinion.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

At my camp in Northern Pa., we planted our first crabapples about 18 yrs. ago. They've done so well without any fussing, we started to plant more the last 2 springs. The only difference is now we're planting grafted crabs on B-118. The earlier ones were a mixed bag of seedling crabs from our Game Commission. They've produced in all weathers & circumstances. Hard to argue with their performance. We've also started to plant grafted apples & pears the last 2 springs - thanks in no small part to this and 2 other forums. Those are also doing well thanks to info I learned from some of YOU on here. It really IS addicting!

Some of the other local camps are taking to planting apples and crabs, too. Some of the old, OLD apple trees in these mountains are dying out, so the push is on to re-plant & re-stock the camp deer orchards.

 

[sandbur]

I'm a fan of diversity. the more variety you can offer the better. that's why I have a mix of apples, crabapples and pears. what appeals to one might not appeal to another. Stu likes Tolman Sweet apples, I don't really care for them. Deer could very well be the same way. I don't believe in regional preferences. that's my opinion.

Perhaps my choice of words with "preferences" was not the best.

I suspect disease like Fireblight and cold hardiness are major factors in what I called "preferences". Maybe more of a necessity as to what grows the best with the least or less care. Many deer fruit plantings will be expected to produce with less care than an apple tree in a home orchard.

Different rainfalls, winter cold, summer drought and winds,and soils determine the " preferences."

 

[huntall]

I have always had great luck with pears in the South.
Apples and crab apples..... not so much.

 

[Maya]

Funny you posted this SB. I just went up to a property I manage for a friend. About 6 - 7 years ago I planted a bunch of Liberty's for him in two different orchards. There is a bunch of wild trees for x pollination. The first one I did everything for him, the 2nd I did everything for him except wrap the bottom with window screen. I ran out. I told him to get some, but of course he didn't and now those trees that are still alive are struggling. The first orchard is beautiful.

The reason I posted this is because the first orchard that was planted with great care at the start and little else since is really nice. Lot's of apples already and they are very healthy. I think I sprayed them twice the first year to get them a good start and only pruned them twice. I don't know, everyone's situation is different , but I've planted, sold, and helped people with thousands of Liberty, Enterprise, Galarina and other disease resistant variety's and if they get the right care at the get go they almost always do well and are easy as heck to care for. Liberty imo are at the top of the list. I've got a few crabs I like too, but they get the same exact care as those disease resistant trees. No easier or harder to care for.

Besides planting (in a good setting, water, etc ), caging, wrapping bases and training properly at the start, the biggest factor for easy care, is planting disease resistant trees. That includes many crabs which are disease resistant.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

The earlier-planted, un-named varieties I mentioned in post #3 above were not on a rootstock. They weren't screened w/ window screen - only caged for deer protection. They're all smaller fruit ( 1/2 to 5/8" ) - greenish-yellow and red types. Back then we didn't know what we were doing other than to plant & cage. But even with no screening, pruning, training - they didn't get girdled by voles or suffer from any diseases that I could see. Went thru late frosts, dry weather, heat. And they're STILL kicking butt! Lots of fruit every year & never sprayed. Deer, bear, turkeys, grouse, and birds eat them. No matter what else we plant, we'll always have crabapples planted in our fields.

 

[sandbur]

I planted my first Liberty and Enterprise this year. I hope they are hardy in my area. Still not sure.

I did plant a Nova Easy Gro, which I think is m ore cold tolerant and also has some disease resistance.

Quite a few years ago, a Master Gardener told me that Liberty was having die back problems and that was 100 miles south of her. South of the Twin Cities.

I was also reading some things about trees on good heavy soil might have too much late season growth and suffer dieback.. Maybe my lighter soils are a blessing!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bur, I remember reading on a past thread you have some " Bunches Red " crabs. What other crabs do you have at your place? How well do they produce for you?

 

[Maya]

Ohh a master gardener Sandbur. Sorry, no offense to your friend, but my brother and his wife are master gardeners. They are flat out clueless when it comes to growing trees. We get talking about my trees or pruning or something related and I always leave laughing at him. He bought some apples from me one year, I made my normal suggestions on how to care for them. He, of course being a "master gardener" new how to do it so he didn't listen to me! They all died within two years from the deer and or mice. Of course I sold him crappy trees!;) Sorry to get off on a tangent about my F....... brother!

I'd be surprised if you have problems with liberty if they are on a good cold tolerant rootstock. I know they are grown quite extensively in Quebec.

 

[sandbur]

I'd be very surprised if Liberty has issues with winter dieback south of the Cities. That would be either 4b or 5a depending on how far south. Many of the orchards in western WI have the same zone rating and they are growing Liberty just fine.

Get north of Brainerd, then I'd start having concerns about zone 4 apples/pears.

Liberty isn't mentioned on this list, but many other common zone 4 varieties are
http://voices.yahoo.com/apple-trees-grow-alaska-8603025.html

Thanks for the link. last night I was reading something from Alaska concerning the baccata, ranetka, and dolgo rootstocks. the link said one of those three rootstocks is developed form the other two. I thought one was developed in Ffairbanks and dolgo was one of the parents.

Some of my concerns are for the area north of Brainerd where I might plant a few more apple, probably crab trees.

 

[sandbur]

Ohh a master gardener Sandbur. Sorry, no offense to your friend, but my brother and his wife are master gardeners. They are flat out clueless when it comes to growing trees. We get talking about my trees or pruning or something related and I always leave laughing at him. He bought some apples from me one year, I made my normal suggestions on how to care for them. He, of course being a "master gardener" new how to do it so he didn't listen to me! They all died within two years from the deer and or mice. Of course I sold him crappy trees!;) Sorry to get off on a tangent about my F....... brother!

I'd be surprised if you have problems with liberty if they are on a good cold tolerant rootstock. I know they are grown quite extensively in Quebec.

That Master Gardener was not a friend, but someone where you could submit a question.

I do have one friend who is a Master Gardener and she does a good job of forwarding information to me, but I got to say that you have been a lot more help!

 

[sandbur]

Bur, I remember reading on a past thread you have some " Bunches Red " crabs. What other crabs do you have at your place? How well do they produce for you?

what is producing- Chestnut crab-about ten of them, bunches red and yellow from Morse, dolgo, rootstock/garden crab that is probably Columbia. Wild crabs from my swamp and some seedlings that have started to produce. Seedlings from Grandma- in law that are of crab size or slightly larger and that are producing. A bunch of flowering crabs of various types.

What is in ground and not producing yet- about another 50-100 seedling crabs, Wickson, kerr, trailman, violi's hanging crab, firecracker crab, centennial from my spring grafting attempts, and a late hanging crab ( also just grafted this spring) from stu.

Your question gives me an excuse to post some more pictures on the Sandbox thread.

 

[Maya]

I'd be very surprised if Liberty has issues with winter dieback south of the Cities. That would be either 4b or 5a depending on how far south. Many of the orchards in western WI have the same zone rating and they are growing Liberty just fine.

Get north of Brainerd, then I'd start having concerns about zone 4 apples/pears.

Liberty isn't mentioned on this list, but many other common zone 4 varieties are
http://voices.yahoo.com/apple-trees-grow-alaska-8603025.html

Appleman sells thousands of Honeycrisp, Liberty, Snowsweet, Enterprise and a few more I can't think of. He is on the border of zone 4b and 4a, right on the Canadien border and he's never said he had any problems. His camp is literally right on the border w/ Canada and he shoots deer that cross the border onto his property every year! LOL

 

[sandbur]

Appleman sells thousands of Honeycrisp, Liberty, Snowsweet, Enterprise and a few more I can't think of. He is on the border of zone 4b and 4a, right on the Canadien border and he's never said he had any problems. His camp is literally right on the border w/ Canada and he shoots deer that cross the border onto his property every year! LOL

George-I feel the area north of me is zone 3. More definite when north of Brainerd.

 

[sandbur]

Art,

Stu had referenced Walden Heights Nursery from Vermont in the other thread. The are zone 3. They have over 400 varieties in their preservation orchard so there must be a lot of apples that can survive zone 3.
They do use antonovka rootstock though. I'll see what they say about B118.

http://waldenheightsnursery.com/store/apples

Thank you. I have a chestnut crab on B 118 that will probably go up in zone 3.

 

[sandbur]

Art,

I emailed them and they have "several" that would work for you. Todd said they have seen little bearing years difference between antonovka and B118. I forgot to ask about disease resistance though.

Do you mean that there is little difference between years to bearing between the two rootstocks?

Thank you for the help.