First run in with tresspassers

Press charges. I'd look for a Deputy or Conservation officer that likes to hunt. Throw them a bone, let them turkey hunt after you are done, etc. When I parked my marked vehicle at a place I'm hunting, the shenanigans stops...
 
Would violating a Trespass Notice be considered Criminal Trespass? That would be a felony in PA. Can't own guns with a felony conviction...that would hurt!
Had to go back and re-read them. There are 3 levels in PA.
Simple trespass - Entering a property without permission. This is for an unposted property.
Defiant trespass - Entering a property after you've been told you can't be there. This includes posted property. A posted sign counts as being told you can't enter. It says it's best to have a witness when telling them or send them a letter certified mail.
Criminal trespass - Entering a property and remaining there or committing a crime while trespassing.

Penalties range from a fine to 3rd degree felony. I believe when they finally started allowing Sunday hunting the fines and penalties for trespassing were supposed to increase. Also read that if the police won't press charges, you may be able to press charges yourself in the local magisterial court.
 
I personally really dislike rules giving the trespassers a brake. I should not have to post my land...period. They know it's not their land so why do they think they can be there? We have to stop creating more ignorance, there is already a huge surplus!
 
Had to go back and re-read them. There are 3 levels in PA.
Simple trespass - Entering a property without permission. This is for an unposted property.
Defiant trespass - Entering a property after you've been told you can't be there. This includes posted property. A posted sign counts as being told you can't enter. It says it's best to have a witness when telling them or send them a letter certified mail.
Criminal trespass - Entering a property and remaining there or committing a crime while trespassing.

Penalties range from a fine to 3rd degree felony. I believe when they finally started allowing Sunday hunting the fines and penalties for trespassing were supposed to increase. Also read that if the police won't press charges, you may be able to press charges yourself in the local magisterial court.
Both the laws and how they are addressed will depend on the state. State and local politics become important when things need to be changed.
 
Both the laws and how they are addressed will depend on the state. State and local politics become important when things need to be changed.
For sure it depends on the locality. I'm sure out west where outfitters lease ground and it's a business, it's much different than around me. Where I'm from the older generation grew up when you could just walk onto anyone's property and hunt even if you had no idea who owned it, and that was fine, and a common practice. Unfortunately that is still a mindset for a lot of people. We even have pretty good public land nearby. The funny part is my trespassers walk through the best bedding area (which they own, or have permission) to hunt on my land. One of the biggest buck I've seen, was bedded on their property in rifle season with one of them sitting less than 100 yds from it and couldn't see it. The guy got up and left and the buck got up and followed a doe on to my property where nothing happened and I definitely didn't miss it.
 
For sure it depends on the locality. I'm sure out west where outfitters lease ground and it's a business, it's much different than around me. Where I'm from the older generation grew up when you could just walk onto anyone's property and hunt even if you had no idea who owned it, and that was fine, and a common practice. Unfortunately that is still a mindset for a lot of people. We even have pretty good public land nearby. The funny part is my trespassers walk through the best bedding area (which they own, or have permission) to hunt on my land. One of the biggest buck I've seen, was bedded on their property in rifle season with one of them sitting less than 100 yds from it and couldn't see it. The guy got up and left and the buck got up and followed a doe on to my property where nothing happened and I definitely didn't miss it.

I grew up in PA as well. You are absolutely right about folks hunting on land where they had no idea who owned it and that was common practice. There were few of us who went to the trouble to find out who owned it and ask permission. Having said that, It was not common practice to hunt on posted land. If the owner went to the trouble of posting it, you could not justify the "nobody really cares" excuse for being lazy.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I grew up in PA as well. You are absolutely right about folks hunting on land where they had no idea who owned it and that was common practice. There were few of us who went to the trouble to find out who owned it and ask permission. Having said that, It was not common practice to hunt on posted land. If the owner went to the trouble of posting it, you could not justify the "nobody really cares" excuse for being lazy.

Thanks,

Jack
I thought I saw you post that before. Where were you located. Even when I was a kid there was very little posted ground. Now, there is very little that isn't. It was very much the reason, why I bit the bullet and bought my ground. So I knew I would always have a place to hunt. Also why I have trespass problems. My ground was the last unposted land in the area.
 
I thought I saw you post that before. Where were you located. Even when I was a kid there was very little posted ground. Now, there is very little that isn't. It was very much the reason, why I bit the bullet and bought my ground. So I knew I would always have a place to hunt. Also why I have trespass problems. My ground was the last unposted land in the area.

I was born and grew up in western PA. I went to PSU and spent my young adult years in central PA. There was a lot of strip mining in the area I grew up and deer numbers were pretty low. We had to drive about an hour south over the mountain to find much productive hunting ground. There was plenty of posted land in that area. Folks posted most private property with trout streams flowing through it. Many farms were also posted. I think it was close enough to Pittsburgh for city folks to invade during deer season. If you knocked at the door you could usually get permission to hunt small game, but often not deer.

When I was in central PA, much less land was posted. There were tens of thousands of acres of state game lands and state forests where hunting was permitted. Because many of these were on mountain sides, farms that adjoined them at the base of the mountain were often posted. This essentially locked access except for the game land roads. Most hunters park along these roads and don't walk far from the road as dragging a deer up a steep mountainside is not fun. This allows the farmers to control a lot of hunting access. Again, if you asked permission, you could usually get permission to hunt small game. Getting permission to hunt deer was tougher but possible.

I don't know what it is like in PA now. When I moved to VA, finding hunting ground near me in the suburbs was very tough. Wildlife Management Areas were over hunted. I was overjoyed when I found great local hunting on military bases. There was a higher regulatory threshold to get access there which kept hunter numbers in check. They also regulated the number of hunters per acre. By this time the suburbs were overrun with deer. Myself and several like minded bowhunters were the founding members of Suburban Whitetail Management. It took a few years to get it off the ground. As local governments finally began to deal with the deer problem they consulted with us. They modeled many of their bowhunting activities in the park today after our hunter qualifications and rules.

I knew I would not want to live in this area after we retired. I started planning about 20 years ago. It is now been over 15 years since we went in with a few other folks, formed an LLC, and purchased a pine farm. It is getting hard to get permission to hunt in the general area of our farm. Larger chunks of ground are getting broken up by sprawl. There is a lot of leasing of hunting ground in this area, so most everything is posted. Guys are loosing leases as land sales occur. So having ground to hunt was one of the reasons we bought land, the primary reason was that I wanted to take the next step and begin to manage for wildlife.

Thanks,

Jack
 
A warning shot implies you are willing to shoot them which could be enough for them to have shot him or worse his son . Also when you fire the warning shot you could be considering escalating the situation and should things get nasty loose right to claim self defense .

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I don't think that's how it works. First, it's not common to scream out "warning shot" before a warning shot. It's just a shot fired as a warning to scare someone. There is no obligation to follow up with a fatal shot. Also, a shot fired into the forest while hunting would probably not be considered grounds for lethal retaliation by trespassers. He even said they didn't see him, so I doubt they would be able to shoot him even if they were inclined to do so.
 
What if it's a dad and his young son ? Do you just shoot the dad or both of them ? I have plenty of problems with treaspassors and usually introduce myself to them and explain the land is posted and let them know they could be arrested .Now if there is a younger one in tow I tone it down and let them know I am sure they want to teach them to be an ethical hunter .

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Both. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
I don't think that's how it works. First, it's not common to scream out "warning shot" before a warning shot. It's just a shot fired as a warning to scare someone. There is no obligation to follow up with a fatal shot. Also, a shot fired into the forest while hunting would probably not be considered grounds for lethal retaliation by trespassers. He even said they didn't see him, so I doubt they would be able to shoot him even if they were inclined to do so.
Wow! That is DANGEROUS! Let's say I'm out in the field and I'm armed. Maybe I'm on land I have permission or maybe I just think I am. Either way, especially if I've got a kid with me, I'm now in protection mode and my firearm is no longer a hunting tool, but it becomes protection. Perceptions can be quite different from reality in the heat of the moment with the adrenalin rush. You don't know me, the trespasser, and have no idea how I will react. You have just escalated the situation to a significantly higher level of danger. Foolish!
 
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I don't think that's how it works. First, it's not common to scream out "warning shot" before a warning shot. It's just a shot fired as a warning to scare someone. There is no obligation to follow up with a fatal shot. Also, a shot fired into the forest while hunting would probably not be considered grounds for lethal retaliation by trespassers. He even said they didn't see him, so I doubt they would be able to shoot him even if they were inclined to do so.

Agree re:warning shot

Hunter S Thompson would fire a few rounds into the dark when opening a door to "soften the room"

I found this to be helpful and effective when i lived in an efficiency appt in houston many years ago

bill
 
I was born and grew up in western PA. I went to PSU and spent my young adult years in central PA. There was a lot of strip mining in the area I grew up and deer numbers were pretty low. We had to drive about an hour south over the mountain to find much productive hunting ground. There was plenty of posted land in that area. Folks posted most private property with trout streams flowing through it. Many farms were also posted. I think it was close enough to Pittsburgh for city folks to invade during deer season. If you knocked at the door you could usually get permission to hunt small game, but often not deer.

When I was in central PA, much less land was posted. There were tens of thousands of acres of state game lands and state forests where hunting was permitted. Because many of these were on mountain sides, farms that adjoined them at the base of the mountain were often posted. This essentially locked access except for the game land roads. Most hunters park along these roads and don't walk far from the road as dragging a deer up a steep mountainside is not fun. This allows the farmers to control a lot of hunting access. Again, if you asked permission, you could usually get permission to hunt small game. Getting permission to hunt deer was tougher but possible.

I don't know what it is like in PA now. When I moved to VA, finding hunting ground near me in the suburbs was very tough. Wildlife Management Areas were over hunted. I was overjoyed when I found great local hunting on military bases. There was a higher regulatory threshold to get access there which kept hunter numbers in check. They also regulated the number of hunters per acre. By this time the suburbs were overrun with deer. Myself and several like minded bowhunters were the founding members of Suburban Whitetail Management. It took a few years to get it off the ground. As local governments finally began to deal with the deer problem they consulted with us. They modeled many of their bowhunting activities in the park today after our hunter qualifications and rules.

I knew I would not want to live in this area after we retired. I started planning about 20 years ago. It is now been over 15 years since we went in with a few other folks, formed an LLC, and purchased a pine farm. It is getting hard to get permission to hunt in the general area of our farm. Larger chunks of ground are getting broken up by sprawl. There is a lot of leasing of hunting ground in this area, so most everything is posted. Guys are loosing leases as land sales occur. So having ground to hunt was one of the reasons we bought land, the primary reason was that I wanted to take the next step and begin to manage for wildlife.

Thanks,

Jack
Wow if you were hunting an hour south of state college, you were probably right in my backyard. PA is getting tougher and tougher to get permission on private ground. If you knock on enough doors you'll still find someone though. Since they enacted the points restrictions, people finally realized the potential that was here to have big bucks. People started posting everything and allowing bucks to walk and grow. 30 years ago you shot the first spike you saw because you may not get another shot at a buck. Most people believed you shouldn't shoot any doe so your deer numbers would stay high. A 100 inch buck was something that people stopped to take pictures of and made the local paper. Now, depending on where you go public ground can be very good. But you have to be willing to work for it. Me and a buddy scouted a local state game lands this year and are planning to hunt it. A few years back I was turkey hunting on state forest in northern PA at our family camp and found some of the nicest buck sign I've ever seen in my life, but it was 2 miles back a logging road.
 
Probably don't want to get to the point of firing off any weapons. jmo
 
Wow if you were hunting an hour south of state college, you were probably right in my backyard. PA is getting tougher and tougher to get permission on private ground. If you knock on enough doors you'll still find someone though. Since they enacted the points restrictions, people finally realized the potential that was here to have big bucks. People started posting everything and allowing bucks to walk and grow. 30 years ago you shot the first spike you saw because you may not get another shot at a buck. Most people believed you shouldn't shoot any doe so your deer numbers would stay high. A 100 inch buck was something that people stopped to take pictures of and made the local paper. Now, depending on where you go public ground can be very good. But you have to be willing to work for it. Me and a buddy scouted a local state game lands this year and are planning to hunt it. A few years back I was turkey hunting on state forest in northern PA at our family camp and found some of the nicest buck sign I've ever seen in my life, but it was 2 miles back a logging road.

Actually when I said an our south, I was talking about when I was young in western PA. Bedford is the closest town of any size near were I hunting when I was a kid. However, when I lived in the State College area, I did hunt around Huntington, but I hunted all around central PA as well. I also had a fired with a camp in Potter county, so sometimes I'd go up there for a week. You are right about the big change in PA. It took Gary Alt to drag them into 20th century wildlife management, I'm I'm surprised they didn't lynch him. When I move to VA, I was shocked at how much more progressive the game department was.

I remember when it was one deer per year. You had to put in for a doe tag in early fall. If you shot a deer during archery or buck season, the tag was void, even if you were lucky enough to score one in the lottery. You had to apply for a specific county.

On the upside, a concealed carry cost $5 and you just walked into the court house, filled out one small form, and the clerk issued it on the spot. :emoji_smile:

Thanks,

Jack
 
Actually when I said an our south, I was talking about when I was young in western PA. Bedford is the closest town of any size near were I hunting when I was a kid. However, when I lived in the State College area, I did hunt around Huntington, but I hunted all around central PA as well. I also had a fired with a camp in Potter county, so sometimes I'd go up there for a week. You are right about the big change in PA. It took Gary Alt to drag them into 20th century wildlife management, I'm I'm surprised they didn't lynch him. When I move to VA, I was shocked at how much more progressive the game department was.

I remember when it was one deer per year. You had to put in for a doe tag in early fall. If you shot a deer during archery or buck season, the tag was void, even if you were lucky enough to score one in the lottery. You had to apply for a specific county.

On the upside, a concealed carry cost $5 and you just walked into the court house, filled out one small form, and the clerk issued it on the spot. :emoji_smile:

Thanks,

Jack
Yup, archery was 1 either sex tag. We would put our applications for bonus tags in the night before they were due to hopefully get 1. Usually there were only a few hundred left per county. Pennsylvania Game News recently did an article on Gary Alt's legacy. Can't imagine getting daily death threats for wanting people to shoot more doe and not shoot yearling buck. It was amazing how many people were so adamantly against it. We can still only shoot 1 buck but doe tag allocation is now by management unit and not by county. My area you can easily get two doe tags if you want.

I forget how much my carry permit was. (It wasn't much) but you still walk in and walk out with one in about 1/2 hour.
 
Yup, archery was 1 either sex tag. We would put our applications for bonus tags in the night before they were due to hopefully get 1. Usually there were only a few hundred left per county. Pennsylvania Game News recently did an article on Gary Alt's legacy. Can't imagine getting daily death threats for wanting people to shoot more doe and not shoot yearling buck. It was amazing how many people were so adamantly against it. We can still only shoot 1 buck but doe tag allocation is now by management unit and not by county. My area you can easily get two doe tags if you want.

I forget how much my carry permit was. (It wasn't much) but you still walk in and walk out with one in about 1/2 hour.

Here in VA, there are more hoops to jump through for a CC, but it is still a "shall issue" state. It is much more expensive, but it covers the entire state and there are many states with reciprocity. The thing I liked best about living in SC was the flyfishing. You couldn't travel 20 minutes in any direction without crossing one of the top trout streams in the east. The big names were Penn's Creek, Spruce Creek, and Spring Creek, but I found many other streams were just as or more productive. Hard t beat limestone streams! I got spoiled!
 
Wow! That is DANGEROUS! Let's say I'm out in the field and I'm armed. Maybe I'm on land I have permission or maybe I just think I am. Either way, especially if I've got a kid with me, I'm now in protection mode and my firearm is no longer a hunting tool, but it becomes protection. Perceptions can be quite different from reality in the heat of the moment with the adrenalin rush. You don't know me, the trespasser, and have no idea how I will react. You have just escalated the situation to a significantly higher level of danger. Foolish!

When you hear a shot while hunting, during hunting season, you go into protection mode? That's weird.
 
When you hear a shot while hunting, during hunting season, you go into protection mode? That's weird.
When it is a warning shot from someone near me I sure do. My first reaction is safety concern that another hunter has snuck up and does not seen me. If that person clearly sees me and is yelling "warning shot", especially if I have a kid with me, I'm clearly in protection mode. There are lots of crazy folks out there. Some would fire a warning shot only, but others will shoot at you.

Now, if I'm a criminal type, and I know I'm trespassing and don't care, I may be the kind of guy that would return fire.

Bottom Line: Actions that escalate the situation are foolish and dangerous.
 
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