First run in with tresspassers

[Chainsaw]

Arrests are especially effective when it involves those that feel they have a right to trespass; those are the kind that go all over town telling the world what a bad person you are for causing them to be arrested. We keep our property legally posted and then some times two so the bad guys have no excuses about not knowing they were trespassing. Then it is their call completely to be stupid and get ticketed. And we always kept our insurance values updated just in case. We stay consistent and treat all trespassers equally.

 

[Tree Spud]

Easy for me to say because I'm not you, but I would have met them at their car with the sheriff. If they are going to burn you down there is no stopping them. I'd roll the dice.

Based on personal experience I would have actually parked their car in if I could so they couldn't leave, and let them explain the problem to the sheriff. I'm all done talking to trespassers. That's what LEO are for.

-John

I’d press charges. No question about it. Maybe only $250 this time but over time a judge will catch on.

I hate to say this, but if they know you called the cops and did nothing, you told them they can keep doing it.

Good advice above ... you need to have LEO's involved and have a citation issued. That way you build a record and case file so should you ever go to court on a larger issue, the Judge will see a history of violations.

They are testing you to determine if you are weak and want to avoid LEO action. If they tresspass on a weekend you are there, guarantee they have run of your place during the week.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I am pretty lenient when it comes to stuff, unless they steal, or damage my property and it costs money. As for trespassing neighbors, I had to deal with it 2 years ago. But rather then involving the law, I went straight to him. I drove to his place, I told him I saw him on my land, and I told him next time if he needs something from my land to call me, or stop over and ask permission before entering my land. It was friendly, and I havent had a problem since.

A couple other things I would recommend, post your land, then add cameras on the main paths they would take. Even if they are dummy cameras. All of my main entrances from the road have a dummy camera by the gate, that you can see from the gate. Then I have live cameras set back so if they trespass, I will get pictures of them. To be fair, I am not in an area that trespassing has been a big issue. I have owned the land since 2001, and I had someone steal my grill, kick in the door to a camper the same time, then a neighbor on each side of me had hunted on my land without permission, both stopped after personally confronting them. Then the county tax guy, which I also confronted sternly.

 

[bzb_1]

Just found a pile of trash dumped on my land...The super crappy part is that it wasnt just dumped...it was thrown all over and down in a 16' wide tax ditch. I was walking out mad at the world and my neighbor stopped and said hey I saw a car here and got the tag I saw two other cars back along your ditch...I am a cop and used my contacts to get the tag run through our DNREC office waste management team...I was knocking on their door an hour later...gave them an hour to clean it up or the man was getting involved...It took em more than an hour but they were there within 15 minutes...Got to love good neighbors.

 

[PatinPA]

So the kid and I went up turkey hunting this weekend on our land. I always pull my truck into the pole barn and nobody knows I'm up there. Saturday morning we have 2 toms 150 yards gobbling away heading our way. My son whispers that there is a turkey 30 yards away in the supper thick tag alders, then he say he thinks it might be a deer. I look and it's 2 guys in full camo with guns doing a sneak towards my field. I took off after them but didn't see where they went. Ran up to the road and found there car. I took a pic of plate and called cops. The cops tell me it's my neighbor down the road that the family owns 1200 acres. They have a bad reputation up there. The cops are well aware of them. I didn't press charges because $250 fine is nothing and I would most likely get supeoned for court. I'm worried about them retaliating since they live right there and I'm 4 hrs away. Really pisses me off they ruined my son's 3rd turkey season.

I'm only 15 minutes from my property and I still feel like I'm considered an outsider. I bought a historically unposted property from people who had a camp and lived an hour away. I never actually caught anyone but I got a few trail camera pics, found evidence of people hunting, when the cable was down during logging cars and atvs just driving down the driveway. One guy was carrying an AR (illegal in PA to hunt with). I didn't report also because I was worried about retaliation.

In PA it's out of the Game Commissions jurisdiction and we have 1 state police office for the entire county and no local police force. The state police have enough to do and don't want to be bothered with it. I ended up putting up a bunch of old broken cameras that I or friends had laying around. Put them in obvious locations at all the typical access points. Started planting raspberries, blackberries, locusts where they access from to make it more miserable than worth it. I made myself more present during hunting season. It sucks, I'd rather leave it alone at that time and only access to hunt but it has worked. I haven't had a picture of anyone for a few years now and I have cameras hidden specifically for trespassers.

 

[PatinPA]

Just found a pile of trash dumped on my land...The super crappy part is that it wasnt just dumped...it was thrown all over and down in a 16' wide tax ditch. I was walking out mad at the world and my neighbor stopped and said hey I saw a car here and got the tag I saw two other cars back along your ditch...I am a cop and used my contacts to get the tag run through our DNREC office waste management team...I was knocking on their door an hour later...gave them an hour to clean it up or the man was getting involved...It took em more than an hour but they were there within 15 minutes...Got to love good neighbors.

My dad had a neighbor that dumped his old burn barrels on his land. Luckily his kid didn't do a thorough job of burning the letter from the school about getting into trouble and it still had his name and address on it. Quick call to the state police fixed that right up.

 

[H20fwler]

I would rather see a coyote going through my property than a human trespasser. At least the yote is a natural thing...and I can decide the law on it!

 

[cavey]

My world is a bit simpler..... looks like you gained another 1200 acres to hunt. Might be surprised what talking to them might do... not justifying their actions but in an old school, card playing world you have the trump card or hammer on them, and they will know it. Might be some common ground that could come out of this, might be their just $#!# bags - guessing they are just old school land owners. Just thinking some crazy thought that you might have a better path down this road.

 

[ruskbucks]

I talked to them the first year I bought my land. They seemed alright. They asked if late gun season if they would mind if I let them walk thru mine land to get to the south side of their property. I told them could after I left. Every single person I talked to around my land, when i just mentioned their name their face looked like the just bit into a lemon. The the stories started pouring in. I called them and nicely said that I didn't want anyone on the land. He got pissed and wouldn't even wave to me in 15 years. The cop said the same thing don't press charges and you have a one up on them. No way they let anyone on their land. Kind of ironic they have a sign that says no trespassing property under surveillance!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

You tried the neighborly route, and it didnt work, I would then press charges.

 

[yoderjac]

I talked to them the first year I bought my land. They seemed alright. They asked if late gun season if they would mind if I let them walk thru mine land to get to the south side of their property. I told them could after I left. Every single person I talked to around my land, when i just mentioned their name their face looked like the just bit into a lemon. The the stories started pouring in. I called them and nicely said that I didn't want anyone on the land. He got pissed and wouldn't even wave to me in 15 years. The cop said the same thing don't press charges and you have a one up on them. No way they let anyone on their land. Kind of ironic they have a sign that says no trespassing property under surveillance!

Similarly, our bullies first tried sweet talk. "You know... we've been hunting here for years (actually poaching)...it will takes us a while to find some place else to hunt...can't we just hunt one more season...". We had already talked to neighbors and had all bad reports so we said "no". They immediately turned hostile, kept poaching, and hung carcasses of young bucks on the fence.

"Don't press charges and" you don't have one up on them...you've told them they can get caught and have no consequences. I find it emboldens bullies.

Keep in mind that there are two general groups of trespassers. The first group actually believes, for whatever reason, they are permitted. Maybe they think the signs were put up for liability reasons or the land is owned by some anonymous company that doesn't really care, or whatever. Once confronted and told they are in the wrong and not welcome, they respond by apologizing and NEVER coming back. Good folks sometimes do the wrong thing for whatever reason.

The second group are the bullies. They will say anything and do anything to get what they want. They will do what they can to avoid getting caught and when caught, avoid consequence the best they can, but they never changer their behavior. The best you can hope for is that with constant vigilance and through enforcing consequences through law enforcement, they will look for easier targets and bully someone else. These are the kind of folks that if you confront them directly yourself, they will escalate things if they don't get their way. You are their "friend" if you let them do what they want and their enemy if you don't.

Of course there is a third group that falls between the extremes. You've got to figure out which one you are dealing with and respond accordingly.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

It took us a good 5 years of constant vigilance, reporting, and prosecution. Same deal with a bully family that thinks they can do what they want cause it is a birthright. They shot young bucks and hung the circuses on of fences. Our owners live 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours away. The game warden went to have a chat with the patriarch. He was drunk and basically told the game warden he could do what he wanted. The game warden made him a pet project. He followed him around for a season or so checking and citing all his friends for any infraction and suggesting he was not a good friend to have. Other large land owners near us had issues with that family but were scared of repercussions and didn't want the headaches, so they backed off to the bullying. When we stood up and prosecuted, suddenly the other neighbors grew a spine as well.

We did NOT stoop to the tactics of reprisal. That just tells law enforcement it is two bad guys fighting. We simply called law enforcement each and every time we had a trespass and always followed up with prosecution. We use a tool our state has called a Trespass Notice. You fill out a form stating an individual is not permitted on your property. It is served on the individual like a warrant by the local sheriff's office and recorded. Once a trespass notice is in place, judges take it more seriously and the fines go up to the point where jail time can be involved. We used that tool for every trespasser we could identify, including using our wireless camera system. We posted clearly.

No doubt, it is costly and time consuming to deal with court, but if you don't, you send the bullies the message you are a soft target and it never ends. They just get better and hiding it. Eventually the message got out to the community that we were not a soft target. Other neighboring landowners now cooperate with us. The bullies don't change their ways, they just find more soft targets they can bully.

No matter how you deal with your situation, I hope it works out for you.

Thanks,

Jack

Would violating a Trespass Notice be considered Criminal Trespass? That would be a felony in PA. Can't own guns with a felony conviction...that would hurt!

 

[yoderjac]

Would violating a Trespass Notice be considered Criminal Trespass? That would be a felony in PA. Can't own guns with a felony conviction...that would hurt!

I don't believe so here in VA. I think it is a class 1 misdemeanor punishable by up to 12 months in jail, $2,500 fine or both. I don't believe the law changes with the notice. It is simply that there is a formal warning and judges take it much more seriously. The sheriff deputy told me that in their department, once a trespass notice is issued. If I report that individual being on my property again, the trespass notice becomes and arrest warrant for them. He said they simply arrest the individual, I go swear out a complaint, and they let the court sort it out.

Without a trespass notice, a deputy will often just give the violator a talking to. If I do go swear out a warrant, they just give the person a notice to appear. Then, on the first offence they are charged but, they will claim "I didn't see the sign". The judge will give them a $50 fine and be done with it even if the guy admits to it.

When a trespass notice has been served, things are handled quite differently. There are no "I can't read" or "I didn't see the sign" excuses. First offense fines become much more substantial. Second offences with a Trespass notice in place can actually result in jail time. While the law and maximum penalties are the same, the practical penalties are much greater. The guy may also need to take time off work and may need to hire an attorney.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ozarkpugs]

A warning shot might have got their attention.

A warning shot implies you are willing to shoot them which could be enough for them to have shot him or worse his son . Also when you fire the warning shot you could be considering escalating the situation and should things get nasty loose right to claim self defense .

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[yoderjac]

A warning shot implies you are willing to shoot them which could be enough for them to have shot him or worse his son . Also when you fire the warning shot you could be considering escalating the situation and should things get nasty loose right to claim self defense .

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Yep. Pure foolishness and arrogance. Anything that escalates a direct conflict can only lead to a bad outcome!

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

A warning shot implies you are willing to shoot them which could be enough for them to have shot him or worse his son . Also when you fire the warning shot you could be considering escalating the situation and should things get nasty loose right to claim self defense .

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Protecting your land against armed criminals should be met with appropriate force. Especially with a child...

 

[yoderjac]

Protecting your land against armed criminals should be met with appropriate force. Especially with a child...

Appropriate force in this case is a cell phone...

 

[ozarkpugs]

Protecting your land against armed criminals should be met with appropriate force. Especially with a child...

What if it's a dad and his young son ? Do you just shoot the dad or both of them ? I have plenty of problems with treaspassors and usually introduce myself to them and explain the land is posted and let them know they could be arrested .Now if there is a younger one in tow I tone it down and let them know I am sure they want to teach them to be an ethical hunter .

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[Howboutthemdawgs]

What if it's a dad and his young son ? Do you just shoot the dad or both of them ? I have plenty of problems with treaspassors and usually introduce myself to them and explain the land is posted and let them know they could be arrested .Now if there is a younger one in tow I tone it down and let them know I am sure they want to teach them to be an ethical hunter .

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Aim for the dad...

I appreciate your level headedness but I’m sick of lawlessness being excused away. There’s not a corner of this country where trespassing and poaching is “just the way we always did it” anymore. We dump way too much money, effort and emotion into our land. Obviously you can’t shoot them on a random encounter but the laws have to be tightened up or bad things are inevitable. Land and game are getting too valuable to people to go around giving warnings and $50 fines.

 

[yoderjac]

Aim for the dad...

I appreciate your level headedness but I’m sick of lawlessness being excused away. There’s not a corner of this country where trespassing and poaching is “just the way we always did it” anymore. We dump way too much money, effort and emotion into our land. Obviously you can’t shoot them on a random encounter but the laws have to be tightened up or bad things are inevitable. Land and game are getting too valuable to people to go around giving warnings and $50 fines.

When frustration and rage overtake us, we feed into the narrative shaped by the anti-hunting activists for the general public. When our response to lawlessness is invoking law enforcement rather than responding in kind or escalating the situation, we benefit our cause. When laws are weak or consequence too soft, the voting booth or running for office is the best response.

I feel the same frustration with Trespassers as you and have the same gut reaction. I just know that giving in to temptation hurts my cause.