Fertilizer or no fertilizer ...need answers asap

[Bc4abc]

So due to the drought..i am reseeding....we are expecting and inch of rain Thursday and friday..winter Rye and durana clover ...ground was burned and disced ...nothing growing in it at all right now.

.with it being Sept. 27th in zone 7....(mountains in southwest VA) it will be a.short window of growth for the clover before it goes.dormant ...

question is .....should I fertilize now qhen I seed or wait until spring ??? thoughts?

I have silty/sandy soil, so I expect lime and fertilizer leaches thru faster than most soils...

Thanks in advance

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[yoderjac]

I never get clover growth when fall planted. The idea is that the WR nurse crop provides the attractant in the fall and the clover just germinates. The clover is then able to take off early in the spring and get a leg up on summer weeds. So, what you are doing should be fine. As for fertilizer, I never worry about N when establishing clover. I'm not growing the WR for grain. You do need to get the P and K levels in the right ball park. I would just surface broadcast the fertilizer. Legumes seem to respond more to K but I'd try to get them both in to the general target area according to your soil test. If you are strapped for cash, put more money into K than P.

With sandy soils, traditional tillage will have more negative effects. I'd look into no-till techniques and at least minimize tillage both in depth and frequency. Perennial clover is a good start since Durana will get you many years before you need to rotate.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bc4abc]

Thanks jack...money not an issue just didn't want to put fert. down only to have it leach away over winter ...thanks jack I will put down some 0 20 20 tommorow with the seed.

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[MoBuckChaser]

I would seed it now, makes sure you get good germination and put on the fertilizer you need later. Without a soil test, how do you know what you need? Why put on more of something you don't need or not enough of something you do need. JMO

 

[Bc4abc]

Monica chaser.....I did get a soil test IU look mow exactly what it calls for.....does that change your opinion?

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[MoBuckChaser]

Monica chaser.....I did get a soil test IU look mow exactly what it calls for.....does that change your opinion?

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Post it!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

And no, it doesn't change my rec. This late in the year I would wait until I seen good germination and good growth, then I would fertilize. No sense in wasting expensive fertilizer like 0-20-20 if it doesn't take.

Edit: and just another thing to help you out, even though money is no object: Super triple phosphate in your 0-20-20 makes your mix cost around $550 ton. Better choice would be 8-20-20, it is made with Dap and cost about $150 a ton less. That would be the choice most of us would make that don't have your resources.

Would still love to see the soil test. (I am sure you are scrambling to post that test as we speak),We can give you some good economical recs to grow some great plots!

 

[yoderjac]

I would still fertilize now. It will benefit your WR. There is little chance of a plot failure given our weather pattern right now. You can always add fertilizer in the spring. I definitely would not use DAP. In our area, you can get bulk fertilizer from the Southern States coops. DAP is 18% N and 46% P (no K). The other bulk fertilizer that you can get there is MAP. It is 11% N and 52% P (no K). If you are dealing with a small plot, your 0-20-20 is fine. I really like to minimize adding N to a perennial clover plot. A little N can help the initial establishment, but once clover gets going , it fixes its own N. As the individual clover plants die and are replaced over time, the N is releases. This build up of N makes the field more attractive to N seeking plants like grasses. If it is a larger field, and you want to take advantage of the lower cost of bulk fertilizer, the local Southern states coops will make a custom mix for you for free. Mixing MAP with potash (K) will allow you to achieve your P and K requirements while minimizing N. The WR will benefit from the N, but that stuff will pretty much grow in cement and the WR is just a short term component of your field.

Keep in mind the key to establishing Durana in our region is timely mowing in the spring. Each time the WR hits about a foot, mow it back to about 6". This will release the Durana but keep the WR alive as long as possible. The WR will help keep weeds at bay while the Durana is establishing the root system.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

LOL

 

[Bc4abc]

I don't have the exact results of soil test with me but basically it called for 110 pounds each of P and K per acre.....My PH was 5.4 but I have already put down enough ag lime this summer to bing it up over 6.5..

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[yoderjac]

I don't have the exact results of soil test with me but basically it called for 110 pounds each of P and K per acre.....My PH was 5.4 but I have already put down enough ag lime this summer to bing it up over 6.5..

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You're doing fine!

 

[Fall's Legend]

Good advice above. I will add that I would probably frost seed some more clover late next winter, just for insurance. Good luck!

 

[D Hunter]

If you are getting plenty of rain and it is forecast for the near future I think the fertilizer would be OK but personally I would wait until spring. It has been very dry here in the southeast. My NC clover/chicory /small burnett plots were just up and going about three weeks ago. I fertilized with #300/ac of 17/17/17. No rain since. Rain was predicted but never came. We had 90 degree days most of the time since then. I checked the plots. All the young plants are toast except a few around the edges where there is some shade. I am sure the fertilize with no rain helped to burn the little plants up. I guess it is too late to replant. No rain in the forecast for the next 10 days. No reason to throw more seed with no rain. First frost is predicted in about three weeks. Thinking about overseeding the whole thing with WR if it ever rains again. Maybe frost seed clover in spring but by then the weeds will have taken the plot over again. Maybe RR soybeans and try for clover again in fall of 2017. Again I would hold off if you are dry. "D"

 

[Bc4abc]

It's a done deal .....seeded and fertilizer Wed night.....has rained 3 inches since then .....

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[Tree Spud]

I smile at requests like this ... give me quick answers to insure my quick expected results ... btw , I failed to plan ... :rolleyes:

 

[yoderjac]

I smile at requests like this ... give me quick answers to insure my quick expected results ... btw , I failed to plan ... :rolleyes:

We are all at different stages. When I first started, I thought I was planning, but I knew so little from a big perspective that plans rarely came together as expected. We also have very different situations. Some of us are attempting to do large scale QDM and others are just planting a small plot for attraction and still others are planting a small plot and think they are doing QDM. Some of us have ag sized equipment and others have little if any equipment. Some live at their property and others live hours away. Weather is more stable in some areas than in others. Soils are different.

I sort of look at questions like this as: I'm trying to do the best I can. I got myself here and I'm not sure what to do next. Any advice would be appreciated.

Most folks will learn from their mistakes. That doesn't mean they'll stop making them, just that they will be different ones next time. I continue to make mistakes with my plots. Each year, I look back and say I could have done this or that better.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Fall's Legend]

We are all at different stages. When I first started, I thought I was planning, but I knew so little from a big perspective that plans rarely came together as expected. We also have very different situations. Some of us are attempting to do large scale QDM and others are just planting a small plot for attraction and still others are planting a small plot and think they are doing QDM. Some of us have ag sized equipment and others have little if any equipment. Some live at their property and others live hours away. Weather is more stable in some areas than in others. Soils are different.

I sort of look at questions like this as: I'm trying to do the best I can. I got myself here and I'm not sure what to do next. Any advice would be appreciated.

Most folks will learn from their mistakes. That doesn't mean they'll stop making them, just that they will be different ones next time. I continue to make mistakes with my plots. Each year, I look back and say I could have done this or that better.

Thanks,

Jack

Amen sir to all of that. The more I learn the more I realize how little I know.

 

[Bc4abc]

looking ok considering not much rain this month ....

 

[Bc4abc]

1/2 inch of rain forecast for Friday...in my area......highs in the 50/60's lows in 40's for next two weeks...QUESTION...will my Durana continue to grow with those temps? tHANKS

 

[yoderjac]

Clover is a cool season crop and established Durana will continue to grow under those conditions. Durana planted in the fall is not expected to produce this year. The WR nurse crop will be the attractant for fall. The Durana will germinate but not really produce much. Next spring is when it will really begin establishing its root system. If you mow the WR back to about 6" each time it hits a foot to slowly release the Durana before weeds take hold, you will have a well established Durana field which will continue to grow through the fall next year. My established durana fields are doing well right now.