A trial run in Southeastern Ohio

bossgobbler

Yearling... With promise
Good evening everyone. I spend a lot of time on this site looking for and gaining a lot of valuable information. I really appreciate all the kind folks on here who share their insight and knowledge to help others. The information I’ve learned here has been extremely helpful. The improvements I’ve made to our land, soil, and deer herd can all be directly linked back to the things I’ve learned here.

I’m trying to add a new 1.5-1.75acre plot this season. It’s an experiment that I’ve been thinking through but I’d like to see what various people think of it and ways they might tweak it or make it better. I’ll give you a little background of what we have here.

I am in southeastern Ohio. We own a small piece of ground of 50 acres in a pocket that seems to be a good area. We have hunting neighbors all around but the deer herd in this area has pretty much called our place the center of their range. The deer spend a lot of daylight hours on our land pretty much year round.

In the past 5 seasons I’ve been fortunate enough to harvest 4 nice bucks here at home. 133” 4.5 yr old 10pt, 136” 4.5 yr old 11pt, 148” 4.5 yr old 10pt, and 167” 3.5 or 4.5 yr old typical 10 with 16 total points. Each of those deer lived here as long as I can remember after 1.5 yr old.

The way the land is already set up it naturally holds deer. The small things I have done to enhance our property have really made the land an attraction to a lot of deer and turkeys. I would say we have a total of 3-3.5 acres planted each year.

The last 5-6 years I’ve focused on improving the soil as much as I can. The things I’ve learned here have become evident in the ground I’m working with. Thank you to everyone! I currently have clover growing well in 1-1.5 acres and wheat, rye, oats growing in various areas. Some of those plots will be converted back to turnips in July.

The new piece that I’m working with is 1.5-1.75 acres. It’s currently in wheat, rye, oats with a fall planting of medium red and white ladino clover. It also had some radishes in it this past fall. This plot isn’t intended to be hunted over. It’s mostly an experiment and just wanted to improve the food available to deer.

I will be doing a soil test soon but I’ve never done one yet. The soil looks poor based on the grasses previously growing in it before I started the plot this past fall. I added about 5 tons of lime and probably 600-800lbs of fertilizer. I added the lime in early September.

I bought some crimson clover to frost seed by late February. I also really enjoy turkeys. Actually, more so than deer. Anything I do I want it to be good for turkeys and deer. I plan to let the crimson clover help me out this spring and summer.

In May I plan to start keeping the wheat, rye, and oats mowed back a little bit. I have mixed emotions about that. I usually don’t mow my cereal grains because I love the bedding, nesting, and seed heads available for turkeys. But I also plan to try some soy beans in there this summer. My neighbor gave me 300-400lbs of Ag beans. Knowing I want to try the beans should I let the grains grow up or keep them cut back? When would you kill the current plants to prepare for beans? When is optimal time to plant beans in southeast Ohio? My thought was that if I mow it a few times it won’t get tall enough for turkeys to nest and fawns to hide.

I don’t anticipate the beans to turn into much. It’s mostly just a “maybe they will”, or “what if they do?!”. It’s a trial. The neighbors across the road plant beans or corn each year. I’m guessing they’ll do corn this summer.

Following the beans, I’ll follow up with drilling more cereal grains in early September and planting Durana clover at the same time.

After reading all of that what are your thoughts? Do you think it’s a good experiment or is it wasteful trying to turn it from cereal grains and clover, to beans, and back to grains and clover again? I suppose I’ve overthought it as I do almost any decision I ever have to make. The knowledge you folks possess will help me decide what to do. Thank you all in advance. Have a good evening!
 
First of all welcome to the site. I've never had good luck frost seeding crimson clover, med red clover frost seeds well.
 
I can't offer much insight, but welcome to the forums from another SE OH member.

VV
 
Welcome. Don't know about your deer densities, but in many places 1.5 - 1.75 acres of beans won't survive. What will be your method of planting the beans, that may determine the best method of dealing with the current planting.
 
Welcome. Don't know about your deer densities, but in many places 1.5 - 1.75 acres of beans won't survive. What will be your method of planting the beans, that may determine the best method of dealing with the current planting.
I plan to either rent the county no-till drill in combination with my tractor or pay my neighbor to use his large planter.

I realize the beans aren’t likely to last. I’m guessing they’ll be browsed down fairly quickly. I like the thought of having standing beans in January and February but on 1.5 acres it probably won’t happen. I guess I’m just trying to think of some more food that will be beneficial, even if only for a short time. I have 300-400lbs of ag beans stored in my garage in dry containers. I’d like to use them somehow unless it just doesn’t make sense to do it where I am thinking of using them. I like having some rye and wheat as they provide that early green up in March and April. Even if I plant beans I plan to either drill or broadcast wheat and rye in early September.

Maybe I can talk another neighbor into letting me plant in his 6 acre field. How many Ibs per acre do you need to plant Ag soy beans?
 
Dear Bossgobbler, This isn't aimed at you. It just so happens you appeared at the right moment! I've been reading and watching and shaking my head for the last couple of months. We currently have a debate about the value of food plots. We have folks asking for advice about what to do with their 50 or 75 acres all-the-while showing a zoomed-in screen shoot from Google Earth and providing no other information about what kind of habitat surrounds the area seeking advice. Deer look at life through a much wider lens.

I think there are only three things a deer seeks. Of course, we all know what they are, right? So, if we attempt to manipulate (or manage) our habitat, isn't it fair to ask WHY we are doing what we are doing, and I don't believe one can answer that question by only looking at the land one might hold. Might I suggest an inventory of land use, cover, and a population density estimate for an area equivalent to one to two square miles (640 to 1,280 acres)?

There might be 15-25 variables we can affect If we can get our heads around five or six we might have a good chance of influencing the outcome.

Your description of the situation is well stated and you present a picture of immediate superiority - I can't think of another word less sensitive. Sorry. I have no doubt about what you said, but I want to ask "why" at the end of most of your assertions only to better understand how it is you have arrived at such an enviable place. It's not a rant - really. I'm just curious as heck.

Why do you think 3 acres of food plots affect your goals - whatever they might be? And why would adding another 2 acres improve your outcomes and help you achieve your objectives? It's a real question. And I'm guessing you're aiming at supplying a food source year round?

By the way, at least on a production level, we try to hit soybean plant populations of 180-thousand to 220-thousand per acres. It's hard to say how many pounds of 'beans it requires because some seed beans are tiny while others are much larger. I think 46 pounds of soybean seed will get you close.
 
Your description of the situation is well stated and you present a picture of immediate superiority - I can't think of another word less sensitive. Sorry. I have no doubt about what you said, but I want to ask "why" at the end of most of your assertions only to better understand how it is you have arrived at such an enviable place. It's not a rant - really. I'm just curious as heck.

Why do you think 3 acres of food plots affect your goals - whatever they might be? And why would adding another 2 acres improve your outcomes and help you achieve your objectives? It's a real question. And I'm guessing you're aiming at supplying a food source year round?

Thank you for your input. My main objective is to provide a variety of foods easily available to the deer and turkeys. My wife, 3 young children, and myself enjoy watching the deer and turkeys on our property. On a typical day it’s unusual to look outside and not see a deer or turkey or 20. It’s rewarding to know they’re thriving. I enjoy helping them anyway I can. Sure, they’d do just fine without me. But I also know that the impact I’m having by providing good food and cover for them is beneficial to them.
I would say on our 50 acres we have a regular 30-40 deer. I’m not implying that they live there only. I’m just saying we have that many deer on a regular basis. One evening last week when the temperatures were very cold I saw 34 deer. 18 bucks(including button bucks) and 16 does. I would guess there were another 10 or so does that I didn’t count that evening.

The surrounding properties are generally what you’d find in most of SE Ohio. A few properties with beans or corn. A lot of woods around the area. Some of the timber is mature hardwoods but also a few 5-10 year old clear cuts, fencerows, overgrown pasture ground. A few hay fields mixed into the landscape. A neighbor has cattle ground as well.
All in all I’d say our balance is optimal in our area. No other neighbors around me manage their land for whitetail or turkeys. A lot of people hunt but not with the same mentality I do. I seek to improve the land and conserve the deer herd and turkey flock.

As far as our specific 50 acres, 25 of it is sanctuary, 3 acres in food plots, 10 is mature oaks, 5 is an area I’m manipulating into various stages of hinge cutting and a little tsi, and the balance is our driveway, lawn, barn, and house.

So I guess the addition of the 1.5 acre plot is just to add some more beneficial nutrition for as much of the year as possible. It was simply a poor grass field that the neighbor mowed a couple times a year. The deer would cross through it to get to a pond and that was about it. Now they spend a little time in it. I’d like to make it more appealing to them as somewhere else to get food.
 
Your description of the situation is well stated and you present a picture of immediate superiority - I can't think of another word less sensitive. Sorry. I have no doubt about what you said, but I want to ask "why" at the end of most of your assertions only to better understand how it is you have arrived at such an enviable place. It's not a rant - really. I'm just curious as heck.

Why do you think 3 acres of food plots affect your goals - whatever they might be? And why would adding another 2 acres improve your outcomes and help you achieve your objectives? It's a real question. And I'm guessing you're aiming at supplying a food source year round?

Thank you for your input. My main objective is to provide a variety of foods easily available to the deer and turkeys. My wife, 3 young children, and myself enjoy watching the deer and turkeys on our property. On a typical day it’s unusual to look outside and not see a deer or turkey or 20. It’s rewarding to know they’re thriving. I enjoy helping them anyway I can. Sure, they’d do just fine without me. But I also know that the impact I’m having by providing good food and cover for them is beneficial to them.
I would say on our 50 acres we have a regular 30-40 deer. I’m not implying that they live there only. I’m just saying we have that many deer on a regular basis. One evening last week when the temperatures were very cold I saw 34 deer. 18 bucks(including button bucks) and 16 does. I would guess there were another 10 or so does that I didn’t count that evening.

The surrounding properties are generally what you’d find in most of SE Ohio. A few properties with beans or corn. A lot of woods around the area. Some of the timber is mature hardwoods but also a few 5-10 year old clear cuts, fencerows, overgrown pasture ground. A few hay fields mixed into the landscape. A neighbor has cattle ground as well.
All in all I’d say our balance is optimal in our area. No other neighbors around me manage their land for whitetail or turkeys. A lot of people hunt but not with the same mentality I do. I seek to improve the land and conserve the deer herd and turkey flock.

As far as our specific 50 acres, 25 of it is sanctuary, 3 acres in food plots, 10 is mature oaks, 5 is an area I’m manipulating into various stages of hinge cutting and a little tsi, and the balance is our driveway, lawn, barn, and house.

So I guess the addition of the 1.5 acre plot is just to add some more beneficial nutrition for as much of the year as possible. It was simply a poor grass field that the neighbor mowed a couple times a year. The deer would cross through it to get to a pond and that was about it. Now they spend a little time in it. I’d like to make it more appealing to them as somewhere else to get food.

One thing I wanted to do in my previous post was to apologize, ahead of time, for sucking the fun out of what we do with our habitat. Sometimes, the objective is to just experiment like a mad scientist! So, it sounds like you're having fun! Keep doing it!

I do have to admit some concern for the amount of fertilizer and lime you dumped on your new plot. But, what's done is done. Still, do the soil test.

It's a lot colder where you are than where I am. Would you consider brassicas for your winter crop? Kale, turnips, rape, radishes? Or, try the soybeans. Plant this around the fourth of July. Glyphosate resistant I would assume? I've found that letting the weeds nearly overtake the soybeans before spraying keeps deer from jumping on the 'bean plants too hard, too soon. But, it's a crap shoot.

Carpe diem!
 
If you are going to no-till, I would try and lay the wheat and rye down and drilling into it. I do it with the front loader on the tractor, while I'm pulling my 6' drill behind. The mat or rye (never tried wheat) acts as a mulch to retain moisture and also curtail weed growth, to some extent. You can then wait until you get some growth and spray to kill the medium red and ladino. Ladino is a little tougher to kill with gly than the medium red. I'm not certain if your plot will survive the pressure or not, but either way the deer will get some benefit.

The good thing about the summer annuals is that if they fail you can still go to brassica or cereal grains. An e fence is another option to preserve the beans.
 
If you plan to mow your cereal grains in May, walk the plots first. I started to mow a winter rye plot one May and decided to walk it down before mowing. Found a pair of newborn fawns that I would've mowed had I not walked the plot down. I wait until the start of the second week in June to mow now and I still take the time to walk the plot before I mow. Good luck with your new plot!
 
If you plan to mow your cereal grains in May, walk the plots first. I started to mow a winter rye plot one May and decided to walk it down before mowing. Found a pair of newborn fawns that I would've mowed had I not walked the plot down. I wait until the start of the second week in June to mow now and I still take the time to walk the plot before I mow. Good luck with your new plot!
Thanks for the tip! I am always thinking of fawns and turkey nests. If I mow it in May I’ll be sure to do so before it’s tall. Actually, as soon as its above 12” I’ll knock it down and then continually mow so that it doesn’t reach a height of fawns being able to hide in it. If that means mowing it in April that’s when I’ll start. There’s still a pretty good chance I’ll just let the grains grow up nice and tall to create some good cover for fawns and turkey poults. I want to try the beans but not at the risk of harming any deer or turkeys. Thank you again for the heads up and making sure I don’t hit any fawns. Around here the fawns are born all the way into late July. Once the grains get tall enough for fawning cover I’ll just let them go and not mow them until August.

Last year our turkey nests got flooded on the property behind us along the creeks and the turkeys all bred heavily again in late May. That caused renesting and then poults hatched as late as late July and August.
 
Welcome to the site!
I have no suggestions really for your plots that you haven't already gotten...but I do have some food for thought on another project since your family enjoys watching wildlife (mine do too).
Shrub strips, they can really be a benefit for all kinds of wildlife and can supply good late season food and cover if you have the room for it. It's more of a long term project that can ad a lot to a property and something the neighbors usually don't have. I'm trying to turn mine into kind of thick old school fence rows that only have nuts/fruit/browse in them...they are a catch all for anything new I hear or read about that I want to try or experiment with. My turkey activity has gone up on the farm along with "other" wildlife and deer like to browse and bed in them.
 
I too am envious of the great deer hunting you have on your property. Some great comments have been offered above. I will add a few more which may be useful for you.

First, I would say, you may want to subscribe to Dr Grant Woods' "Growing Deer TV" series for some great continuing education of all things deer. The link below describes what he has dubbed the "Buffalo System" of food plotting which is very efficient, economical, and super healthy for your soils.

https://www.growingdeer.tv/transcri...n-more-food-less-cost-episode-446-transcript/

You may also want to look at Episodes, #392 - May 27, 2017, # 393 - June 3, 2017, and #447 as well. There is a wealth of great information in this website.

I deal soil temp for soybean germination is 62 degrees F. This is measure 1' deep between 8A - 9A. You can also just watch your neighborhood to determine when the farmers are planting their beans and you will be fine. Here in Upper Michigan where I am, I usually plant the first week of June. I am sure it would be sooner where you are.

Planting rates can vary considerably. Here, where I generally have a high deer density, I normally plant at a rate of 210,000 seeds per acre and I normally drill my beans on 7 1/2" rows. There are 140,000 seeds per bag so for me it comes out to 1 1/2 bags of seed per acre. As someone mentioned above, the seed can vary in size which is why some bags may weigh closer to 40# and others may be closer to 60# - they all will have 140,000 seeds in the bag.

If you decide to go ahead and plant beans I would recommend that you inoculate them with an inoculant specific to soybeans so that you can create the Rhizobia in the root nodules to enable them to create Nitrogen.

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I mix my inoculant with the beans right in the hopper. You can use a "sticker" solution of 3 parts water to 1 part sugar to get the inoculant to adhere to the seed.

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If you have a high deer density, which it sounds like you do, you might consider using Electric Fencing to keep them out.

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I have a high deer density on my property and small plots of beans will look like this in a hurry if they aren't E-Fenced

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On the other hand, this is a 3.5 acre plot a half mile or so north of the one pictured above, and it can withstand some heavier browsing.

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Best of luck with your new food plot.
 
Id spray the plot when the cereal is about 2' tall and drill into it like others have mentioned when farmers in your area are planting beans. Walking the plot first would be a great Idea as well as keeping the front end loader down to lay the dead cereal on the ground for a weed barrier. If it was me I would absolutely plant beans. You will never know if you dont try. Put up a cage like in the above picture to monitor use. It may just be that you come close to getting pods and some liberal doe harvest will get you there in the following year.

Also mentioned above you are out nothing but some fuel and time if the deer wipe it out. Just replant in the fall and your good to go. Make sure to overseed with cereal and or brassica no matter if the beans make it or not.
 
Or, you can drill the seed first and then spray it a week or two later...as long as you plant Roundup Ready seed:

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