Eagle Beans, Corn, lots of Deer - Transferred from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

No flowering so far. Here are the latest pics:
G4 looking North:

Looking South:

G3 (Unprotected beans) Looking North:

Looking South:

Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

wow that fence tells a story! are you going to overseed the unfenced beans later or put in a new fall plot?
good thread. thanks for the tiller info by the way.

Yes. I plan to overseed all of my bean fields (protected and not) with a cover crop. My goal is to eventually be totally no-till for my warm season annuals. I'm planning on a two stage fall plant for these fields. I plan to broadcast Purple Top Turnip into them sometime in August (I haven't picked a date yet) to get some more tuber development. Then in early September I plan to go in and broadcast Winter Rye and Crimson clover for a 3-way mix. This is good for my soil and provides fall/winter food as well.

Jack,
Do you get a little giddy, each time you go back out and see that your new investment is working (and working well)? :p

Youbetcha! I'm back for two days after a visit and I'm itchin' to go back down and see how much they have grown! These beans are gonna canopy. That will be a first for me!!!

Okay now, ya'll have me wondering. Ya'll are talking about comparing the different Eagle soy varieties, but we already know the grain varieties are not going to be as hardy as the forage varieties.
Plant the cheaper varieties? I think they have all been the same. It's just cheaper than if you get a pre-blend.
Now have ya'll planted the Game Keeper. Far as I know, Brad only has 3 forage varieties... and then all the blends, which just have a mix of the forage varieties, or mix of forage and grain.
The GameKeeper has the vining variety (whitetail thicket). I have not gotten to plant any Eagles yet, but I have planted other vining soy's (and to me there is a noticeable difference in browse tolerance between a vining and non-vining).
If memory serves me correct, due to the smaller seed size of the Whitetail Thicket (vining variety)... you can actually plant at about a 4/5 rate on the Game Keeper "blend" since it has the smaller vining bean in it. Basically 40#/ac rather than 50# (if that is your desired seeding rate)
All based on plant population per acre (according to seed ct per lb).

I really would like to try the vining type. I've been buying my beans from Mali in MD (Outdoor Essentials). He has gone out of his way to help me save money by coordinating delivery via one of his other customers that works near me! As far as I know he has only gotten Big Fellow, Large Lad, and Managers Mix, not Whitetail Thicket by itself. The price on Managers Mix (combination BF, LL, and WT) is $10/bag more.
Because my high deer densities kept all of my beans naked last summer, I never saw any difference at all. My plan this year was to go from 3 acres to 5 acres, increase drill rates from 50 lbs/ac to 62 lbs/ac, and to add in corn. I did not plan to do any protection due to the cost of an E-fence and the ineffectiveness of my plotsaver experiment last year. Since I could see no difference in the beans, I decided to go with BF.
My Gallagher style E-Fence was an after thought and recognition that I should bite the bullet on the cost. I didn't put it up until well after heavy browsing had begun.
Since I have the fence now, I'll be protecting an acre again next year but from the start. Knowing this, I'll probably use a variety other than BF to look for differences.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Ok, I've got to make a decision. Do I pull the E-fence next weekend or wait one more weekend? Here are the pics:
Unprotected field looking south:

Unprotected field looking north:

Protected field looking South:

Protected field looking North:

Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Just a little more info. I see now flowering yet. Here is a closeup of the protected beans:

Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Fenced all but a half ac or so. Weather stress is the main problem here (both for plants and deer). One will hit the fence and tangle wires and that shuts down the system...they everybody comes to the party. :rolleyes:
With the drought conditions, I don't think it will matter...deer will get in there and the plants are not growing and can't recover. Added more posts and watered the ground rods last weekend...maybe that will make a difference.
Can't complain too much because deer are getting good nutrition when they need it most (native habiatat has shut down).
Each time I have to fix fence another broadhead gets sharpened! ;) :D

Jack I would hold tight just a little bit more. I was just looking at the radar and it looks like the whole state of VA is getting hit with rain. If you are indeed covered up with cells, I would let the beans get a nice kick before pulling the fire on that plot. It looks great!!

 

[yoderjac]

Between a thunderstorm yesterday afternoon and one this morning, we've had 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch in the last 48 hours. The earliest I'm considering pulling it is next weekend, the end of July. I'd like the deer to have this nutrition in Aug, but I was also hoping if it flowers, I'll get beans. I could also pull it the first weekend in Aug.
You saw the unprotected standalone beans above. There is not much left, but it is interesting how the beans in the bean corn mix, while clearly being browsed, are not as bad of as the standalone beans:

 

[yoderjac]

That corn does not look happy, turn down the heat and bring some rain.

Actually, I was surprised at how well the corn has done. I mixed it at a very low rate with the beans for a test. I gave no additional nitrogen beyond what was in the MAP needed to achieve the P level for the beans. I was primarily trying to add a little vertical cover in the field and RR corn was the only option. To be honest, I didn't expect to get actual ears of corn. I have 3 to 5 ears on most of the stalks.
You are right, that we had a number of consecutive days of 3 digit temps with a rain free week when that picture was taken. We had 1/2"-3/4" in the last two days.

 

[yoderjac]

Same thought....when she rolls her leaves she is stressed! :D
I'd wait to pull the fence....deer would go through that tall of bean in about 2 weeks here.

Thanks. I think I'll wait at least until Aug 7th and see what it looks like then.
Here is what the corn looked like 1 week earlier. It is amazing what 1 rain free week of triple digits will do!

 

[yoderjac]

One more week in to the Gallagher style E-fence experiment and here are the pics from July 29th:
G4 (Protected beans) looking north:

G4 (Protected beans) looking south:

G3 (for comparison about 100 yards away) looking north:

G3 (for comparison about 100 yards away) looking south:

Based on all the advice you guys have provided here and in PMs, I will be leaving this fence up for a minimum of another week and likely longer. I got one picture of a deer that broke in this week.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Another week has gone by. The deer are breaking in now to to the point where I can see some obvious browse pressure however, not enough to have a significant negative impact. I'm planning on pulling the fence this weekend or next. Here are the pics:
Protected beans looking north:

Protected beans looking south:

Unprotected field 100 yards away looking north:

Unprotected field 100 yards away looking south:

Even though the beans are impinging on the fence significantly it still shows 2K-3K volts.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Looks like it worked, wonder what it would have looked like had the fence been up from the start.
Did you keep the 4 ft spacing between outer and inner ?
Are the outer edges or in between the fences being browsed or did they just not do as well ?
All things considered looks like a success.

Yes, I kept the larger spacing. Next year, I'll probably up it up early, use 3' spacing and go to 3-strands on the inner fence.
As for the outer edges, a little of both. This is a pipeline and there are spots that were dug up by the pipeline company for repairs and I lost the topsoil when they filled them in. So, there are some spots that are not doing as well. However, there does seem to be more browsing between the inner and outer fence than inside.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

...think you should submit the photos to Gallager or manufaturer you used...maybe in trade for some products...prolly a t-shirt! :rolleyes: Beans look very good Jack...prolly wise to take down the fence now or provide multiple access points rather than educate the masses and have problems next year...what worked this year may not the next!
Again, how many bean acres 'in' and 'outside' of protection?

Yes, I agree. My hope is to find time this weekend to take it down. I don't want to train my deer the wrong way!

 

[yoderjac]

Not cheap, but I bought two of these and it made it 10 times easier than last year to roll it all up. Put the wire on one and the tape on one.

 

[yoderjac]

I just bought one of those as well for my wire (expensive!). I needed something for the turbo wire since it did not come on a spool. The turbotape did come on a spool. I'm thinking of trying to find a way to wind it back on to the original spool.

 

[yoderjac]

I'd say it worked GREAT!
Hey incidentally Jack, I think you moving your electric fence around, might actaully keep the animals from thinking they can penetrate it...
In other words, this yrs perpetrators, may view the same fence, in a differnt location, as a new challenge. :rolleyes:

I'm very happy with both how this has worked and with the protective value I've seen by mixing corn with beans.
However, if I have my way, this years perpetrators (all does) will not be around next spring to re-offend. Unlike you liberals in Texas, here in VA we take property rights seriously and are quick to apply the death penalty to E-fence trespassers. Photographic evidence made for a very quick trial and the appeals process should be over by Oct 9th.
I'm hoping to keep recidivism rates to a minimum on our property :D

 

[yoderjac]

Well, these will be the last pictures with the Gallagher style fence. I decided to take it down this weekend:
G4 Protected Beans looking North:

G4 Protected Beans looking South:

G3 Unprotected Beans Looking North:

G3 Unprotected Beans Looking South:

The protected beans have started to flower.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Looks pretty good. Will be interesting to see how quickly they are hit and how hard. Do you have an exclusion cage in there for tracking ? I hope to check mine this weekend , 3 weeks after removing the fence.

No, the e-fence was my exclusion cage. I do have a camera on that field, so I'll be able to see how hard it is being hit.
My primary purpose is to service the summer stress period, not produce pods. If deer put heavy pressure on this field at this point, I'll probably use all Eagle beans next year. I'll plant more acreage and mix more with corn and protect 1 acre to provide summer forage with the other fields have been decimated. If the deer don't over-browse this field now that the fence is down, I might consider planting ag beans in the protected area next year in hopes of pods.

 

[yoderjac]

Well, the fence has been down a week. I am truly surprised that the deer have not smacked the beans more. Maybe the E-fence has some residual effect. We have had an unusually wet and cool summer, so maybe there are just more native options now. I've been working on a tower next to the field, so there has been more human activity than normal as well. The deer have been browsing them though.
Previously protected field looking North:

Previously protected field looking South:

Soybeans with a hat for size perspective:

Today I surface broadcast PTT and Crimson clover through all my unprotected beans. I hope to add the winter rye labor day weekend. I also drilled radish into other fields this weekend. Man did the Kasco perform well with the Hydraulic top-link. I'll have to update that thread soon.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I never got to check mine last weekend, trying again today, has been 4 weeks since the fence came down.
I do think there is some left over fear of the fence, but I also think two other things come into play.
1. The field probably has 20+ times more forage than young unprotected beans do, so they eat more up up and down the plants in a smaller area, where the same browsing would wipe out much a larger surface area if just young young beans. i.e. the field can withstand 20+ times more browsing now than if left unprotected.
2. Young tender beans are preferred over more mature larger leaf beans.
My plot would be wiped out in 2-3 weeks without protection, last year after I took the fence down, 30% was never used. So I planted 6 weeks earlier and took the fence down 2-3 weeks earlier.

Jack, Man those look great!
As Bank mentions (aside from not knowing what your game cam is showing)... I bet the deer are on there more than though.
Regardless, as the days progress (Days post fence down) I bet activity increases.
AS for Banc's 30% Beans left over... That's about right. Essentially, if they eat every bit of what you grew, then you didn't have enough. It's like a law of diminishing returns... as you mentioned, it's the surplus forage that gives the exisiting browse pressure tolerance. Reduce that surplus, and you reduce that tolerance. The more green leaves a plant has, the more productive it will be.

 

[yoderjac]

So today, I'm working on installing solar panels on my tower along this field. It was about 9:00 when I got started. I'm running saws and drills and stuff. About 1030, I was just starting to drill a hole when I heard something and caught movement out of the corner of my eye. A young deer when running out of the plot into the pines.
My truck was parked right next to the beans under neath the tower. It is hard to believe a deer entered that field while I was working and we didn't see each other.
I think a more likely scenario is that the deer was laying in the beans when I arrived and just hunkered down and finally decided to take off.
So, you are right, they are definitely using those beans in spite of all the activity.