Eagle Beans, Corn, lots of Deer - Transferred from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

Last year I drilled 3 acres of Eagle Beans at 50lbs/ac. While they survived, the deer kept them naked all summer. This spring I planted 5 acres at a 62lbs/ac and added some corn to the mix.
In this field I added about 1 part corn for 7 parts beans:

In this second field I used even less corn:

Well, I found a significant problem mixing the corn and beans in high deer density areas. The corn takes off like gang busters with all the N from the previous soybean crops in the soil and the deer don't touch it of course. The beans get browsed hard. The first spraying of gly was no issue when the plants were 3 to 4 weeks old. However, with the amount of browsing I experience, the beans take for ever to close the canopy or don't close it at all (we will see which). That means I eventually need another application of gly. Well, since the corn isn't waiting, the best I could do was to raise the boom sprayer as high as possible and just sacrifice any corn I ran over. Because of the potentially poor coverage, I don't know how effective the second spraying will be. I did not lose as much corn and the coverage was better on the second field with less corn.
I may have to invest in a Gallagher fence.

 

[yoderjac]

I planted my beans last weekend (had to wait for rain) and put up my e-fence this past saturday. I have pretty high deer density so I tried plot saver and it was ineffective for me. Last year I tried a 1 acre field in late June with the gallagher system and it worked great. Those beans had been planted in early May and hammered hard by the deer for about 6 weeks and after fencing them off they rebounded really well. I am sure yours will do the same. It is pretty expensive to start with but you should be able to reuse most of your items for years and if the deer keep them eaten to the ground you are really not getting the most out of your soybean investment. Thanks for all of the info you share on this site and good luck with your plots.

We had a Similiar experience with the eagle beans. My problem was also due to putting under the clover and planting corn. By this, I removed a portion of the deers food and caused the young soybean to be targeted. I do not have an electric fence around them but have plot saver around them and at my brother in laws, we even criss-crossed the plot saver through the beans.
This has worked so far. You have some larger plots than we do, good luck!

What are the dimensions of the 5 acres, looks pretty narrow , one problem with fencing long and narrow is it takes more wire and poles. The good thing is the chargers can power miles of fence.
Interesting the high #s don't like young corn, any corn less than 5 acres typically gets wiped out in our medium # populations. Deer are weired.

My situation is similar to yours, Jack. High deer densities render my soybeans/sunflowers dead before they reach 12" in height. Invested in a gallagher B-100 with solar charger 2 years ago and it was night and day. Just bought 2 S-17 chargers for a couple of small sunflower patches so my clearfield sunflowers can survive. All the work plowing, disking, planting, fertilizing is for naught unless it's fenced.

 

[yoderjac]

The 5 acres are located on a pipeline ROW. My section of the ROW is about 1 mile long by about 60-80 yards wide. It is rolling ground. The relatively flat tops are planted in the soybean or soybean corn mix. Some of these flats are divided in to two long narrow sections with one in clover. The hillside are mostly in bicolor lespedeza, and the dips are largely in clover. Two of the soybean fields are a little over an acre each. The other four fields are a little over 1/2 acre each.
This is not ideal for planting beans, but you have to work with the ground you have.
As Banc points out, it is not practical to fence this all in. I did try plotsaver last year as you can see in this thread (has this same post but also has history): http://www.qrgc-forums.org/QRGC_Forums/yaf_postst50_Eagle-Forage-Soybeans.aspx
Even if I do nothing, these beans have still been a success for me. Previous years (before Eagle Beans) warm season annual plots were empty except for weeds by the middle of summer when they are needed. Most of my Eagle beans survived last year. For the most part, they produced no beans, but they kept producing foliage all summer and deer kept them naked. So, this is still more deer food for the summer stress period than ever before.
My thought was to start by fencing 1 acre. Since my 3 acres survived last year (but did not flourish), I'm guessing that 4 acres unfenced would also survive next year but 1 acre would flourish. I'm thinking that if I wait until mid summer before removing the fence, the beans inside the fence would have a lot of forage when they need it. If this works, I would consider fencing a second acre field.
In response to Rick who referenced turning under the clover putting pressure on the beans, I have about 65% of my tillable acreage distributed around the property in clover. There is plenty of clover for deer to eat and they are hammering that as well.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Jack:
I'm experimenting with my own version of a "Plotsaver" system on two small soybean fields, each about two acres. Instead of using the Plotsaver brand chemical, I'm using a product I bought at Tractor Supply called "Liquid Fence". You can get a 40 oz bottle of concentrate for $25. I'm mixing it a bit stronger than directed. The bottle states it will make 5 gallons, but I'm mixing only 4 gallon of water. Plus, I'm spraying the poly tape every two weeks instead of every four. So far (knock on wood), I am seeing no signs of browsing activity within the fenced area. These are regular Ag beans. In prior years, the deer would absolutely decimate these two fields. This year I have a beautiful stand developing. The liquid fence has the egg emulsion like Plotsaver but uses garlic as well. Also, I have the whole field fenced off instead of leaving some crop outside the fenced area. I don't even want to give the deer a taste until I'm ready to remove the fence. This appears to be keeping them out of the area quite well.
KSArcher~~~

 

[yoderjac]

My experience with plotsaver was quite similar. I had two tests areas last year and the deer stayed out until late June. Of course, they had plenty of beans to eat outside the test areas. The test area beans looked great compared to outside the plotsaver when I took it down. The problem was that by late June, the beans inside the plotsaver were just too tempting compared to what was outside and they started breaking in.
In the end, I decided it was not worth it. Why? Well, a week or two after the plotsaver was removed, the beans inside the plotsaver and outside the plotsaver looked exactly the same. Both survived, and both were naked.
If I go the protection route, I need something that will not just deter deer, but prevent them until at lest mid-July.

 

[yoderjac]

KSArcher - you have me interested. Is this a single strand of the plot saver tape? What height? How long have you had the field enclosed?

Jack,
With the rectangular shape of your plots it would be easy to regulate browsing with an e-fence....rotational grazing! :D

You are correct. I do have just a single strand of one inch poly tape, set at about 30 inches high. I did not order the tape from Plotsaver, so I don't know exactly what they use. I purchased the poly tape that's used for electric fencing. You can buy that at most any farm & fleet store. I used t-posts on all corners of the fields and in the middle of any really long runs. Then I put fiberglass step in posts every 30 feet. They alreay had the poly tape clips on the posts. I wrapped the tape around the t-posts once and secured it with a zip tie. I was able to pull the tape really tight so I have no sagging along the perimeter.
I've been very happy with the results so far. I've had the fence up for a month now, as I planted the beans on 5/11. I guess the real question will be: How much longer will it be before the deer realize that the fence won't hurt them and they breech the perimeter. Sounds like that's what happend to Jack.
I know of several other folks having the same experience as Jack. That's why I'm tweaking the process a bit (i.e. spraying every two weeks and fencing the entire field off to not let them at any of it. My reasoning was, they can't miss what they don't have. Plus, I think the liquid fence is working better than the plotsaver mixture, based on what others have experienced. Time will tell. I will certainly keep folks updated as the summer progresses.
Dave (KSArcher)

 

[yoderjac]

For those of you using electric fencing, what kind of fence posts and clips do you use? Do they make a clip that you can slide up and down a T-post? I was thinking of something where I leave the inner fence posts in place permanently and simply slide both wires to the top of the post when I remove power for the year to let the deer in and then slide them back into position for the following year.
Or, do you guys find it easier to use fiberglass posts and put the whole fence up and down each year?

 

[yoderjac]

They make both clip-on and screw-on insulators for t-posts. Try a few of the clip-ons with the post you will use as there is diffence in fit between brands. Those that hold the wire on the teat side of post seem the best. T-posts will also work for a corner if driven at a slight outward angle...use the 'football' shaped insulators for corners. I use a t-post every 60-90' then 5' of 1/2" re-bar in between for line posts (these cost me $0.55 each from 20' stock). 6' size 125 T-post are fine for e-fence applications. Really doesn't matter much on line posts...rebar, bamboo, fiberglass, PVC, wood....but I woudn't skimp on the t-post spacing. In one spot I have a doe which monster trucks one side of the e-fence each week :rolleyes: ...something is spooking her from the top side....t-posts on that portion of fence would help but all we did was rebar since it is a 'temp fence' for the rotation. She's bent 3 rebar posts so far...B*&$%! :eek: She'd prolly eat fiberglass posts because a few insulators have vaporized or are still in orbit! :D
Try the fence on half of the larger plot this year and see how it works, if you can swing it.

Jack:
How about this:
http://www.farmsupplystore.com/departments/insulators/T-Post-Polywire-W-style-insulator-Black

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks guys. From the reading I've done, the 3D E-fence seems to be the ticket for preventing access. It is just out of reach right now. However, I'm thinking of maybe starting with just installing a single strand of poly-tape like KS did but electrifying it. This would be equivalent to the outer part of the 3D fence. I have a bunch of 4' step-in poly posts. I'd just have to buy a roll of tape and charger. Then, depending on results, I could worry about adding the T-posts and putting up the inner fence next year.
I need a solar powered fence charger. I'm guessing 6-volt is not enough, is that right? $370 is a lot to pay for a charger for 1 acre. Is it possible to simply run an insulated cable along the ground to run multiple 1 acre sections from the same charger in the future?
Any recommendations on particular models or brands?

 

[yoderjac]

Here is a Gallagher for $190 that should do the trick for you.
http://www.farmsupplystore.com/departments/energizers/S20-SuperCharger-Energizer

Jack, I bought a Gallagher B-100 solar unit last year and this year I bought 2 Parmak 25 mile solar units for $160.00 ea. and I can't tell any difference on 3 to 4 acre fields on the two units. I use t-posts 50 yards apart on the outside fence with poly tape and 1 step post between each t-post. The inside fence is 2 strands of poly wire on t-post about 30 yards apart. I went with more t-post this year because we have a real hog problem down here so I wanted a sturdier fence. I even added 1 strand of 14 ga. steel wire about one foot off of the ground to pop those hogs. It was pretty expensive this year but I hope it will last for several years. Don't forget to add peanut butter about every 50 yards so the deer will be curious enough to taste the fence. We checked our voltage and it was showing between 8 and 9 all the way around so we shouldn't have a problem.

Well, if anyone finds a system that not only keeps DEER OUT, but RAIN IN... let me know. :p
I took a chance with VERY little moisture this yr... got things up, and now they are dried down. No matter your deer exclusion system, it won't work without rain. :(
Jack, as for the fence post... t-post, and steps ins work fine. But I suggest everyone get their wire pretty tight when using t-posts in-line.
Same with using rebar and insulators. They all work well, until you get a sagging line, or a line disconnected from an insulator. Then things can start shorting out a bit, if the wire gets too close or comes in contact with ANY type of metal post.
Some stores carry a rebar sized fiberglass rod that are like a dollar a piece. Those paired with an insulator work fairly well.

 

[yoderjac]

Here is another question for you guys familiar for electric fences:
How small of a solar charger can I use? I see 3 mile, 5 mile, 10 mile, 25 mile etc; As you can see from my previous post, the largest contiguous area I would be fencing would be 1 acre.
I'm trying to evaluate buying a bigger solar charger and then running an insulated cable to the next section to fence or buying multiple smaller chargers.
Most every example I've seen is using is using larger chargers. Is this primarily because of fencing off larger acreages or is it also because lower end chargers don't have enough kick to teach deer the "NO" word?
I think if I could effectively get away with a 3 mile fencer for $100 for each area, it would be a better option than getting a larger fencer for $200-$300 and trying to tie the areas together.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Here is a Gallagher for $190 that should do the trick for you.
http://www.farmsupplystore.com/departments/energizers/S20-SuperCharger-Energizer

Jack, I bought a Gallagher B-100 solar unit last year and this year I bought 2 Parmak 25 mile solar units for $160.00 ea. and I can't tell any difference on 3 to 4 acre fields on the two units. I use t-posts 50 yards apart on the outside fence with poly tape and 1 step post between each t-post. The inside fence is 2 strands of poly wire on t-post about 30 yards apart. I went with more t-post this year because we have a real hog problem down here so I wanted a sturdier fence. I even added 1 strand of 14 ga. steel wire about one foot off of the ground to pop those hogs. It was pretty expensive this year but I hope it will last for several years. Don't forget to add peanut butter about every 50 yards so the deer will be curious enough to taste the fence. We checked our voltage and it was showing between 8 and 9 all the way around so we shouldn't have a problem.

Parmak 6V solar 25 mile rating...usually around $160. A 50 mile unit is better for long runs or multiple plots, if the price is right. Anything under 10 mile is junk...IME! Search ebay...sometimes good deal.
The yellow/black poly wire is good stuff. Just tie it off to a rounded insulator not one with edges or it will cut there if an animal monster trucks thr fence.
If you can't afford the full 3-D system this year, then don't go this route. Setting up a one or two strand single fence will only train deer to jump it...that is the last thing you want to initiate. :eek:
RJ...what grounding system you running?

 

[yoderjac]

If you can't afford the full 3-D system this year, then don't go this route. Setting up a one or two strand single fence will only train deer to jump it...that is the last thing you want to initiate. :eek:

I was hoping that with 4 acres unfenced and only 1 acre fenced that they would respect the fence long enough for the beans to fill in. I have a camera on the field. When the fenced acre becomes so attractive that deer start entering the field, I'll pull it down like I did the plotsaver last year.
Am I just being penny wise and pound foolish?

 

[yoderjac]

Here is a Gallagher for $190 that should do the trick for you.
http://www.farmsupplystore.com/departments/energizers/S20-SuperCharger-Energizer

Jack, I bought a Gallagher B-100 solar unit last year and this year I bought 2 Parmak 25 mile solar units for $160.00 ea. and I can't tell any difference on 3 to 4 acre fields on the two units. I use t-posts 50 yards apart on the outside fence with poly tape and 1 step post between each t-post. The inside fence is 2 strands of poly wire on t-post about 30 yards apart. I went with more t-post this year because we have a real hog problem down here so I wanted a sturdier fence. I even added 1 strand of 14 ga. steel wire about one foot off of the ground to pop those hogs. It was pretty expensive this year but I hope it will last for several years. Don't forget to add peanut butter about every 50 yards so the deer will be curious enough to taste the fence. We checked our voltage and it was showing between 8 and 9 all the way around so we shouldn't have a problem.

That sounds good leaving a 'scrificial lamb' to reduce interest in the 1 ac plot. Just wasn't sure if you were going to do partial fence on the whole thing...which IMO would be a mistake. 3D fence the 1 ac per the book. I'll post up a few pics of this in my destination thread, just to show what deer will do without e-fence on beans at our place.

 

[yoderjac]

That sounds good leaving a 'scrificial lamb' to reduce interest in the 1 ac plot.

Yes, that was my intent. Last year I drilled sacrificial sunflowers through clover nearby. They wiped those out quickly but it didn't keep them off the beans. Maybe I should bite the cost bullet and do it by the book.

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I did it. I selected a field in the middle of the pipeline that was only planted in soybeans with no corn. I wanted to avoid corn shorting out the fence. The field was planted April 30th and had good germination but has had significant browsing pressure.
Since I am late to the game this year, and this is an experiment to see how effective it is before making a bigger investment, I did not put in good corner posts. I will put in permanent corner posts next year if this works. I used 4' step-in style plastic posts for all of my posts.
I used Gallagher Turbo wire for the inside fence and 1/2" turbo tape for the outside fence as recommended. I found that Parmak makes the same 6-volt unit and brands it for Southern States that Dgallow recommended. It runs about $200 at my local coop. I looked on-line and the prices are right around the $170 ball park but when you add in shipping cost, it was within a few dollars, so I kept the business local.
I drove a 5' grounding rod into the soil with about 3" exposed. I connected that to the negative terminal of the fencer with leftover 12 gauge wire from another project. I used the same leftover wire to connect to both the inner and outer fence. I kept the turbo wire as one continuous strand. I simply ran it up a post from the lower wire height to the upper wire height to form the upper strand.
One warning for other who have to drive a way to get to your farm. The solar fencer instructions say to leave the fencer in the sun for 5 days before turning it on. I'm sure the reason is to fully charge the battery that has been sitting on the shelf. Instead, I pulled the battery and hooked it to a 6-volt smart charger. It took about 20 hours to fully charge the battery. That allowed my to complete this project over a day and 1/2 period.
Here are the pictures. The first is standing in the middle looking north and the second is taken form the same spot looking south.

Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Exactly how I have mine other than its a B200 charger. I used 2X4s for the corners, but hit one with the tractor and broke it. Used 2 of the step ins and so far is holding up. Did you go 3ft between in the inter and outer ?
And did you touch it for a test ? :D

 

[yoderjac]

Based on all the reading I've done, I went closer to 4' between the inner and outer fence.
As far as testing goes...Well, I guess I should fess-up :eek:
After I first hooked it up, I decided to test it. Not thinking, I figured my digital multi-meter would do the job. I just turned the setting to 1,000 volts (Without going back to the manual and figuring that the 1000 volt setting meant that you multiply the readout by 1000). Well, I smoked the mulit-meter. The 1000 volt setting means the maximum voltage you can put in is 1000!
Fence 1, yoder zero...Round two...
So, I ran to TSC and grabbed an inexpensive fence tester and headed back to the farm. I tested the fence and got nothing...So, I disconnected it and tested the fencer itself and got nothing :mad: The meter on the front panel showed it was fully operational with the needle pegged to the right. I decided to pull the battery and make sure the connections were good and nothing was shorted out to the case. Everything looked fine.
Then I started thinking...How and the heck do the get a little 6-volt battery to put out thousands of volts and last a reasonable amount of time? Ahhh....the thing is pulsed. I'm used to an instantaneous reading when working with electrical stuff. Next I tested again but left the tester in place for a longer time. Not what I expected, but I thought I saw a flash.
Next, I covered the tester with my hands and peeked in. Sure enough the lights were flashing. It was just a brief flash and it was hard to see in the daylight. The fencer was working properly.
Next, I connected everything back up to test the fence. And yes, during part of that process I forgot to shut off the fencer and was kneeling on the ground when I touched the hot terminal, ie: THE BRANIAC TEST! :eek: I can vouch the fencer is working just fine!
When I tested the fence itself, I had a voltage drop of about 1000 volts. I was not sure if that was normal or not. However, when I was adding the flagging tape as the final step I found where one spot was drooping and making contact with the ground at a high spot as well as with some weeds. I tightened it up at that point to clear the problem. Next weekend I'll add another step-in post at that high point.
So, the short answer is that I did touch it as a test. By the way, I also grabbed the fence when standing up and got no shock at all. I guess the soles of my boots provided insulation. But, I don't plan to kneel and touch it again! :D

 

[yoderjac]

Been there, done that, Jack. Good for you for dropping a dime on an e-fence. You will not regret your choice.

Jack,
Look'n good!
In the long run... a corner doesn't have to be real fancy or expensive... not for electric fence.
A multitude of materials could be used from steel pipe, to 4X4, treated landscape timbers, or a 3.5-4 inch treated wooden fence post like you might see available from tractor supply, various farm stores, etc.
I think the latter being $5.50 or so for a 6.5 ft. Two & a half feet in the ground, and that post wont move THAT much, especially if you did cement it in a larger hole.
Keep us updated with your SUCCESS! :p
One of these days I may finally plant some Eagles too... but not before I have a fence in place. We have free range axis, that I never know when they'll show up... I can't afford to take chances. :eek:

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the feedback. As for corner posts, I'm leaning toward heavy duty T-posts put in at a slight angle. The main reason for this is that I can drive them in. I'm on a pipeline ROW. I'm okay to do surface work, but if I dig a post hole, I have to call the pipeline company. They send a crew out who stomp through all of fields and flag the pipelines. Then, I have to coordinate with them on the day I run my auger with one of their folks on site. Bottom line is Pain-in-the-Butt. I can drive a T-post with no threat to the pipelines.
Here are a couple questions for you experienced E-fence guys:
1) I have another 1 acre field about 100 yards or less up the pipeline. We will have a shallow trencher on site for another job sometime this summer. I was thinking about running an insulated 12 gauge cable along the road from on field to the other.
Do you think that little Parmak would have enough power to run a Gallagher style fence on two fields about 100 yards apart like that?
2) Why do they use the turbo wire on the inner fence, cost? I found the tape so much easier to work with.
3) How do you guys recollect the wire and tape when you take down a fence. To put it up, I just ran a piece of grounding rod through the center of the spool and walked around. I got a couple of blisters from not wearing gloves, but it worked fine. However, there is no way I can re-wrap on the original spool that tightly.
Do they make some kind of reel that works well for rewinding the wire/tape when you you collect it for storage?
Thanks,
Jack