Durability of legacy hunting camps

[yoderjac]

We had accepted that as fact for a while but more and more are starting to call bullshit. I do buy that much of that notion is from people trying to sell something.

Hunting: number of participants US 2021 | Statista

In 2021, the number of people who participated in hunting in the United States (aged six years and older) amounted to approximately 25.87 million.

www.statista.com

We Actually Have No Idea How Many Hunters There Are in America

How many hunters are there in America? Turns out, no one is quite sure. License data varies so wildly from state to state that there’s no accurate accounting of overall hunter numbers. Here’s why that’s a problem and what’s being done to fix it.

www.outdoorlife.com

While I agree that the absolute number is hard to establish, the trending is pretty clear. It is mostly a demographic thing. Urban areas are growing and hunting heritage is lost. Access to land is more difficult. Liberal schools are changing attitudes. Changes in recruitment strategies are having some positive impact increasing female and minority participation in recent years. Attrition is hurting numbers.

The point i was making, by the way, was that although the national decrease in hunting participation is occurring (the rate is debatable), that trend may not evidence itself in lower pressure on public lands in any specific location.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

While I agree that the absolute number is hard to establish, the trending is pretty clear. It is mostly a demographic thing. Urban areas are growing and hunting heritage is lost. Access to land is more difficult. Liberal schools are changing attitudes. Changes in recruitment strategies are having some positive impact increasing female and minority participation in recent years. Attrition is hurting numbers.

The point i was making, by the way, was that although the national decrease in hunting participation is occurring (the rate is debatable), that trend may not evidence itself in lower pressure on public lands in any specific location.

To clarify, by saying decrease in participation are you saying percentage of the population or total number of hunters? I haven't seen anything showing total number of hunters or days hunting is decreasing but I could buy that percentage of population is decreasing just due to basic population growth.

 

[Mortenson]

I won't turn it the obvious political way it could go, but yes more males have turned sissy. More soy latte drinkers, less red meat eating hunters. All by design. Be careful who you vote for.

 

[Buckly]

I won't turn it the obvious political way it could go, but yes more males have turned sissy. More soy latte drinkers, less red meat eating hunters. All by design. Be careful who you vote for.

And to that point, NY has become so progressive that hunting camps or hunting in general could be wiped out by a simple executive action by the Governor simply because it involves guns. While I know most don’t think thats possible just look at what happened during COVID with the executive actions. These progressives make no bones about eliminating guns and their executive actions regarding this pushes the hunters into dangerous territory. And PA could flip that way before you know it with Fetterman and the likes. I really don’t think I’m in conspiracy mode here I think it’s entirely possible with executive actions after watching this COVID mess and what you thought was a right was gone in a day.

 

[yoderjac]

To clarify, by saying decrease in participation are you saying percentage of the population or total number of hunters? I haven't seen anything showing total number of hunters or days hunting is decreasing but I could buy that percentage of population is decreasing just due to basic population growth.

Both. Birth rates have been pretty flat and so has population growth since the hunting decline began. There is probably a good argument that hunter access to land has been declining at a greater rate, but I don't have hard data on that.

 

[PatinPA]

hunter access to land has been declining at a greater rate

I think this is a big problem in some areas. When I grew up you could get permission to hunt on probably 75% of private land where I live. Now it's more like 25% at best.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

A lot of the hunter recruitment drive is by these organizations with something to gain financially. I think it’s all bs

 

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

well its rather ignorant of you to say something like this, as FACTS are in here in PA< lic sales SHOW dropping numbers of hunters
its not a opinion I have, its a FACT
maybe where your at its different, but that doesn't mean its that way every where
feel free to come take a ride about ANY northern public lands the second week of rifle deer season and see how EMPTY the woods are
the ONLY places that seem to STILL have high numbers of hunters are in area's where hunt able LAND is in low amounts!
and so many flock to the closest land they can hunt ion!

but that doesn;'t mean there are tons of hunters EVERY WHERE there is public land, far from it!
as a fact its FAR from that in most places as you get farther from the populated ares!

so, before bashing someone for stating some facts, maybe learn about things
hunting lic's sales reflect HOW many hunters are in a state and them sales of lic's are dropping in pretty much EVERY state
PA right now has lost lic sales every single yr for the past 12+ yrs in a row, the number of hunters IS DROPPING< FACT!
don't like it, tough cookies, but it is a fact!
Kids are NOT getting into the sport as they once did, FACT, as well!

I want to keep this a friendly debate. If my vulgar language offended - I apologize. I wasn’t meaning to invalidate the facts - more meaning to shine some light on the R3 movement.

But my point is - in the 60s, 70, 80s - you had 4- 6 guys hunting every 100 acre farm for 1-2 weeks in November. (Call that a hunter density on private of 1 hunter/20 acres. With 5 guys hunting the 100 acre patch of public for a week. (Call that a hunter density of 1 hunter / 20 acres. Now all those farms are posted, leased, hunted by 1-2 family members. With the remaining (albeit overall lower number) of hunters pushed into the public. So your public hunter numbers / acre have greatly increased. AND THEY RUN AROUND FROM BOW to LATE MUZZLELOADER - OCT - DEC.

The main factor in all those hunter satisfaction surveys is that what makes hunters dissatisfied with their hunting experiences is losing a hunting area and HUNTING PRESSURE. If someone here doesn’t think hunting pressure is the main driver behind deer hunting satisfaction - throw me some GPS cords to your property or favorite hunting spots. Hunting pressure is everything. It’s why people wait years to hunt in Iowa or Kansas. It’s why we all own are own land.

As far as getting away from pressure (in good deer density area) that cats out of the bag. Mapping software makes those hidden spots easily findable and reachable. It’s hard to get lost in 2022.

I’ve witnessed this first hand in Vermont and my wife’s family farm in Southwest Wisconsin. We used to have permission to drive deer on 20 farms and we’d kill 30 deer in a week - now we have permission to drive 1 farm.

As far as finding finding less pressure in out of the way areas yes - that’s true. I (MY EXPERIENCE) find there’s a lot less deer! Thats why deer camps are dead. There are very few deer. That was the driving factor behind me buying my own land.

I know what your thinking - guy wants groomed hunting lands with heated box blinds - and that ain’t it. I want to hunt unpressured deer that move in the daytime. I’ve been waste deep in freezing water, in the dark, in the nastiest shot you can find dragging my son along with me - he shot his first deer about 20 minutes after a crying fit (no deer seen and cold) on the last day of the last season on a piece of public. But doing that day after day is tough on a grown man, much less a kid. It’s like practice with the team all week - only to sit the bench for the game.

As far as the kids getting into hunting - Do we need to get more kids into hunting - I don’t really know if we need to make it a priority. Do you think we need to incentivize kids with access to the best ground in farm country to hunt? Those kids are going to hunt regardless. Do we need to incentivize kids with no access to land to hunt - I think so. How can we do that see my previous paragraph - give them access to high deer density hunting areas with low pressure. I’d like to see the game departments either buy up or lease every piece of ground they can get ahold of, but in this real estate market - ain’t happening.

Is there a reckoning coming - FOR SURE. Pittman Robertson funds are flush with cash from everyone and their brother buying a gun the last 3 years. Don’t think all these politicians see all that money and want to get their fat fingers on it? When that money decreases - fish and game departments will be hurting. It doesn’t help that all the “non consumptive uses” balk at paying any sort of taxes towards on their outdoor gear (kayaks, tents, gps) when they do use things that hunters/fishermen pay for - trails, public land, boat launches.

 

[yoderjac]

I think this is a big problem in some areas. When I grew up you could get permission to hunt on probably 75% of private land where I live. Now it's more like 25% at best.

Bingo! When I grew up in PA, it was rare to see a posted sign, and even if you did, if you went up and asked the farmer politely and respectfully, the answer was likely yes. When I moved to VA, the culture was very different. Most of the private land was locked up by leases. My best option was military land. That is when I started thinking that if I did not eventually buy land where I could hunt, I'd be dealing with a lot of hunting pressure in the long run. While something good came out of it for me, that is not the case for many.

 

[yoderjac]

A lot of the hunter recruitment drive is by these organizations with something to gain financially. I think it’s all bs

Don't know about your area. Around here, NWTF has been a big recruiter with there Jakes program. Women in the outdoors has done a lot of great work bringing women into the sport. I teach Hunter Education for the state, so I'm involved as well.

Of course the Hunting industry pushing product supports organizations like this. It is their business future just is our heritage future. Keep in mind they are a counterbalance to HSUS and other animal-rights organizations pitching for funds with begging background music and large eyed starving puppies on TV.

Think what you want. I for one, will continue to pass on our hunting heritage the best I can through teaching Hunter Ed and taking new folks out for their first hunt!

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Don't know about your area. Around here, NWTF has been a big recruiter with there Jakes program. Women in the outdoors has done a lot of great work bringing women into the sport. I teach Hunter Education for the state, so I'm involved as well.

Of course the Hunting industry pushing product supports organizations like this. It is their business future just is our heritage future. Keep in mind they are a counterbalance to HSUS and other animal-rights organizations pitching for funds with begging background music and large eyed starving puppies on TV.

Think what you want. I for one, will continue to pass on our hunting heritage the best I can through teaching Hunter Ed and taking new folks out for their first hunt!

Sure it’s noble but you better have a place to put all these new hunters. Nothing will get a person out of the outdoors faster than not having a place to hunt. Like being a golfer without a course. It’s pointless. We have bigger fish to fry for the future of hunting than hunter numbers.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I want to keep this a friendly debate. If my vulgar language offended - I apologize. I wasn’t meaning to invalidate the facts - more meaning to shine some light on the R3 movement.

But my point is - in the 60s, 70, 80s - you had 4- 6 guys hunting every 100 acre farm for 1-2 weeks in November. (Call that a hunter density on private of 1 hunter/20 acres. With 5 guys hunting the 100 acre patch of public for a week. (Call that a hunter density of 1 hunter / 20 acres. Now all those farms are posted, leased, hunted by 1-2 family members. With the remaining (albeit overall lower number) of hunters pushed into the public. So your public hunter numbers / acre have greatly increased. AND THEY RUN AROUND FROM BOW to LATE MUZZLELOADER - OCT - DEC.

The main factor in all those hunter satisfaction surveys is that what makes hunters dissatisfied with their hunting experiences is losing a hunting area and HUNTING PRESSURE. If someone here doesn’t think hunting pressure is the main driver behind deer hunting satisfaction - throw me some GPS cords to your property or favorite hunting spots. Hunting pressure is everything. It’s why people wait years to hunt in Iowa or Kansas. It’s why we all own are own land.

As far as getting away from pressure (in good deer density area) that cats out of the bag. Mapping software makes those hidden spots easily findable and reachable. It’s hard to get lost in 2022.

I’ve witnessed this first hand in Vermont and my wife’s family farm in Southwest Wisconsin. We used to have permission to drive deer on 20 farms and we’d kill 30 deer in a week - now we have permission to drive 1 farm.

As far as finding finding less pressure in out of the way areas yes - that’s true. I (MY EXPERIENCE) find there’s a lot less deer! Thats why deer camps are dead. There are very few deer. That was the driving factor behind me buying my own land.

I know what your thinking - guy wants groomed hunting lands with heated box blinds - and that ain’t it. I want to hunt unpressured deer that move in the daytime. I’ve been waste deep in freezing water, in the dark, in the nastiest shot you can find dragging my son along with me - he shot his first deer about 20 minutes after a crying fit (no deer seen and cold) on the last day of the last season on a piece of public. But doing that day after day is tough on a grown man, much less a kid. It’s like practice with the team all week - only to sit the bench for the game.

As far as the kids getting into hunting - Do we need to get more kids into hunting - I don’t really know if we need to make it a priority. Do you think we need to incentivize kids with access to the best ground in farm country to hunt? Those kids are going to hunt regardless. Do we need to incentivize kids with no access to land to hunt - I think so. How can we do that see my previous paragraph - give them access to high deer density hunting areas with low pressure. I’d like to see the game departments either buy up or lease every piece of ground they can get ahold of, but in this real estate market - ain’t happening.

Is there a reckoning coming - FOR SURE. Pittman Robertson funds are flush with cash from everyone and their brother buying a gun the last 3 years. Don’t think all these politicians see all that money and want to get their fat fingers on it? When that money decreases - fish and game departments will be hurting. It doesn’t help that all the “non consumptive uses” balk at paying any sort of taxes towards on their outdoor gear (kayaks, tents, gps) when they do use things that hunters/fishermen pay for - trails, public land, boat launches.

Around here, in the southeast, a lot of the public ground is extremely poor habitat which as we know results in a poor experience. Rather than some of the organizations spending money on recruiting new hunters (who in turn may financially support their organizations) they should dump into more habitat projects and more lobbying to properly manage our forests. Take north Georgia, East Tennessee, wester North Carolina for example. Tons of public land. Horrible horrible habitat. Old growth mismanaged forests for hundred of miles. I’ve been on 25 hour trail runs and never seen a living mammal. Wrap your head around that. Not even a squirrel. It’s my understanding these areas were once rich in game when we allowed managing of the timber. But we have bowed down to groups whose opinion is not based in science, rather emotion. Game rich public lands would naturally encourage more people to participate.

 

[MRBB]

To clarify, by saying decrease in participation are you saying percentage of the population or total number of hunters? I haven't seen anything showing total number of hunters or days hunting is decreasing but I could buy that percentage of population is decreasing just due to basic population growth.

if you haven;t seen anything showing less HUNTERS, your not looking very hard as again,. hunting lic sales reflect amount of LEGAL hunters
and about every single state has data you can find and look at if you want too

PA< for example has again LOST RESIDENT Lic sales EVERY single year for almost 2 decades now
as a FACT in 2010 JR lic, which is basically your KIDS and young folks hunting
have lost 50% of the sales in the past 10 yrs!, that's 50% less KIDS getting into hunting in PA!(from JR lic sales, in 2010 , 36,259 to just 15129 in 2021 as an example showing JR lic sales and how BIG a decline there has been ina decade)
and its like this in almost EVERY state!
so, basically its LESS hunters every yr, which means the sport is NOT drawing in and HOLDING new members, its loosing them!
which is NOT a good thing as again, LIC sales is what PAYS for the game dept's

2010​	2011​	2012​	2013​	2014​	2015​	2016​	2017​	2018​	2019​	2020​	2021​

Resident Junior

36,259​

34,122​

33,727​

32,715​

30,539​

28,111​

24,771​

22,120​

19,523​

17,814​

15,690​

15,129​

 

[MRBB]

I want to keep this a friendly debate. If my vulgar language offended - I apologize. I wasn’t meaning to invalidate the facts - more meaning to shine some light on the R3 movement.

But my point is - in the 60s, 70, 80s - you had 4- 6 guys hunting every 100 acre farm for 1-2 weeks in November. (Call that a hunter density on private of 1 hunter/20 acres. With 5 guys hunting the 100 acre patch of public for a week. (Call that a hunter density of 1 hunter / 20 acres. Now all those farms are posted, leased, hunted by 1-2 family members. With the remaining (albeit overall lower number) of hunters pushed into the public. So your public hunter numbers / acre have greatly increased. AND THEY RUN AROUND FROM BOW to LATE MUZZLELOADER - OCT - DEC.

The main factor in all those hunter satisfaction surveys is that what makes hunters dissatisfied with their hunting experiences is losing a hunting area and HUNTING PRESSURE. If someone here doesn’t think hunting pressure is the main driver behind deer hunting satisfaction - throw me some GPS cords to your property or favorite hunting spots. Hunting pressure is everything. It’s why people wait years to hunt in Iowa or Kansas. It’s why we all own are own land.

As far as getting away from pressure (in good deer density area) that cats out of the bag. Mapping software makes those hidden spots easily findable and reachable. It’s hard to get lost in 2022.

I’ve witnessed this first hand in Vermont and my wife’s family farm in Southwest Wisconsin. We used to have permission to drive deer on 20 farms and we’d kill 30 deer in a week - now we have permission to drive 1 farm.

As far as finding finding less pressure in out of the way areas yes - that’s true. I (MY EXPERIENCE) find there’s a lot less deer! Thats why deer camps are dead. There are very few deer. That was the driving factor behind me buying my own land.

I know what your thinking - guy wants groomed hunting lands with heated box blinds - and that ain’t it. I want to hunt unpressured deer that move in the daytime. I’ve been waste deep in freezing water, in the dark, in the nastiest shot you can find dragging my son along with me - he shot his first deer about 20 minutes after a crying fit (no deer seen and cold) on the last day of the last season on a piece of public. But doing that day after day is tough on a grown man, much less a kid. It’s like practice with the team all week - only to sit the bench for the game.

As far as the kids getting into hunting - Do we need to get more kids into hunting - I don’t really know if we need to make it a priority. Do you think we need to incentivize kids with access to the best ground in farm country to hunt? Those kids are going to hunt regardless. Do we need to incentivize kids with no access to land to hunt - I think so. How can we do that see my previous paragraph - give them access to high deer density hunting areas with low pressure. I’d like to see the game departments either buy up or lease every piece of ground they can get ahold of, but in this real estate market - ain’t happening.

Is there a reckoning coming - FOR SURE. Pittman Robertson funds are flush with cash from everyone and their brother buying a gun the last 3 years. Don’t think all these politicians see all that money and want to get their fat fingers on it? When that money decreases - fish and game departments will be hurting. It doesn’t help that all the “non consumptive uses” balk at paying any sort of taxes towards on their outdoor gear (kayaks, tents, gps) when they do use things that hunters/fishermen pay for - trails, public land, boat launches.

I also would like to keep things civil , and I GOT what you were saying
but the way your viewing things IMO< isn;t the way the world works
NO where does it say the GAME dept is supposed to FIND or provide you with a hunting spot with LOW pressure, where deer are NOT feeling pressure!
if you WANT unpressed deer and want to control who hunts where and when, this is why folks BUY There own land!
if you cannot afford to do so, again NOT the state game dept's fault!

they provide places to HUNT for the public, be them more or less crowded, its ALL they are doing! there providing places where game can live yr round and the PUBLIC can access it to use it!
MANY MANY MANY people kill BIG bucks on public land every yr, many ADAPT to how they hunt based on location and PRESSURE
if you again DON"T like that, well, again its NOT the state game dept's job to make you happy on type of pressure a public land gets

NEXT
you mention how in the 60-70-80's and so on when hunter numbers were much higher
well keep in mind, places like PA for example, also had MORE DEER
as a fact they claimed PA to have over a million deer back in its prime when it also had a MILLION hunters

you keep saying PRESSURE based on number of hunters and show examples of how leased land with less hunters gets what BETTER quality deer
well again, thats not rocket science
and that is exactly WHY so many BUY there own land and GROW better deer and have CONTROL over pressure on THERE LAND
you say with today's tech, all the spots are easy to find
MAYBE,. but that doesn't mean many actually take the time to GET to them after finding them
every study I found on HOW far from the truck the average hunter goes, its FEW that go very far
' most are under 300 yards from there vehicle!
in MOST states ONLY about 15% of deer hunters kill a BUCK
and of those that do so regularly, there more DIE hard hunters than the average OPENING day folks
and these are also the guys that BUY There own land to hunt and have that control over!
and IMO why so many KIDS are not getting into or staying in the sport, they DON"T have there own land to have it how they FEEL they need it to be successful or enjoy hunting
so they rather NO hunting over learning how to hunt in more pressured places!
But either way you slice it, hunter numbers are dropping, NO BS< just facts

and to be honest after owning a gun shop, being part of dozens of hunting clubs and talking with hunters often, more and roe hunters that PLAN to stay hunters BUY there own land and STOPPED hunting public lands YRS ago!
so these folks are NOT adding pressure to public lands or the amount of hunters using them!
long term die hard hunters are BUYING there own land, NOT migrating to public lands!
or at least in the states I travel too and folks I talk too! and in ALL my travels about public lands in hunting season, where after opening day, there rather empty anymore!

 

[yoderjac]

Sure it’s noble but you better have a place to put all these new hunters. Nothing will get a person out of the outdoors faster than not having a place to hunt. Like being a golfer without a course. It’s pointless. We have bigger fish to fry for the future of hunting than hunter numbers.

That is only part of the point. Even if a kid only goes hunting once and enjoys it, he is much more likely to support responsible hunting. I never pressure kids to hunt or shoot when they do go hunting. They express some interest before I do anything. Even if they never hunt again, having some positive relationship with a hunter, and having a chance to eat hunted game, is important as they form their world view.

 

[spaniel]

its the same with FARMS, so many farms are GONE now due to the KIDS don't have any LOVE for the land or bond to it, they rather the quick cash from a sale, than hold onto something that has been in a family for generation! due to again, NO bond to the land or it traditions!

this is how most OLD camps will go as well, Nature of the beast maybe,
or lack of teaching kids values that are missing today in so many!??

I think this is a drastic simplification. I grew up on a family farm and I absolutely have love and bonding to it. But it barely supported my family growing up as a kid, and at this point a 150 acre family farm absolutely would not support my family and my kids and would not justify the size farming equipment has grown to. Doesn't matter how much you love it, you have to have a total lack of business sense to carry that on (and desire to live in poverty). My father is finishing out his years with 1970s/80s era 4-row equipment and I will end up having to sell it. I do love it and will make my best effort to sell it to one of the younger generation of the family who is consolidating several of the family's farms to carry on the tradition. But there just isn't room for all of us and frankly some of us had other callings despite how much we loved how we grew up.

I'd guess a lot of the same property dynamics changing farming must affect deer camps. They weren't a thing where I grew up, at least not in the way described in this thread, so it's been interesting reading. I've got my own family camp going, while I couldn't get hunting to stick with either of my daughters they do shoot with me and want to spend time in camp as long as they have something to do while I'm sitting in the stand (one of them may join me there sometimes). My son is only 10 but he does seem to be getting into it.

Work ethic in the younger generation seems to be something of an issue far beyond deer camps....I'm fortunate not to have to work with them but I've spoken with some who do and it doesn't sound like a bed of roses.

 

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

I also would like to keep things civil , and I GOT what you were saying
but the way your viewing things IMO< isn;t the way the world works
NO where does it say the GAME dept is supposed to FIND or provide you with a hunting spot with LOW pressure, where deer are NOT feeling pressure!
if you WANT unpressed deer and want to control who hunts where and when, this is why folks BUY There own land!
if you cannot afford to do so, again NOT the state game dept's fault!

they provide places to HUNT for the public, be them more or less crowded, its ALL they are doing! there providing places where game can live yr round and the PUBLIC can access it to use it!
MANY MANY MANY people kill BIG bucks on public land every yr, many ADAPT to how they hunt based on location and PRESSURE
if you again DON"T like that, well, again its NOT the state game dept's job to make you happy on type of pressure a public land gets

NEXT
you mention how in the 60-70-80's and so on when hunter numbers were much higher
well keep in mind, places like PA for example, also had MORE DEER
as a fact they claimed PA to have over a million deer back in its prime when it also had a MILLION hunters

you keep saying PRESSURE based on number of hunters and show examples of how leased land with less hunters gets what BETTER quality deer
well again, thats not rocket science
and that is exactly WHY so many BUY there own land and GROW better deer and have CONTROL over pressure on THERE LAND
you say with today's tech, all the spots are easy to find
MAYBE,. but that doesn't mean many actually take the time to GET to them after finding them
every study I found on HOW far from the truck the average hunter goes, its FEW that go very far
' most are under 300 yards from there vehicle!
in MOST states ONLY about 15% of deer hunters kill a BUCK
and of those that do so regularly, there more DIE hard hunters than the average OPENING day folks
and these are also the guys that BUY There own land to hunt and have that control over!
and IMO why so many KIDS are not getting into or staying in the sport, they DON"T have there own land to have it how they FEEL they need it to be successful or enjoy hunting
so they rather NO hunting over learning how to hunt in more pressured places!
But either way you slice it, hunter numbers are dropping, NO BS< just facts

and to be honest after owning a gun shop, being part of dozens of hunting clubs and talking with hunters often, more and roe hunters that PLAN to stay hunters BUY there own land and STOPPED hunting public lands YRS ago!
so these folks are NOT adding pressure to public lands or the amount of hunters using them!
long term die hard hunters are BUYING there own land, NOT migrating to public lands!
or at least in the states I travel too and folks I talk too! and in ALL my travels about public lands in hunting season, where after opening day, there rather empty anymore!

To be honest - it sounds like the gist of your argument is these lazy millennials don’t want to put in the work to hunt on public land.

I heard a similar argument in USMC boot camp - “damn millennials, damn new Marines, the war is over”. To bad nobody told that to the locals in Fallujah.

I really don’t want to get into some weird back and forth generation battle on a habitat forum.

Go to Ohio and WI. Who will you see out there grinding on public land during bow season - it’s 20-30 year olds. Them and the Amish. Lol

I also help my dad at his gun shop weighing in deer - who do I see smashing “decent” deer on public - “Goddamn millennials”. I surmise because they don’t have any money - and they are forced to hunt public land. Plus - it’s “cool” to be a public land / saddle / first lite hunter these days.

I don’t think anyone expects the game department to provide them with their own herd of unpressured of 160” bucks to hunt. I certainly don’t. It’s why I and my friends go to great lengths to get away from other hunters. But that’s pretty difficult now with OnX and YouTube - people got this figured out.

Regarding R3 - R3 is a ploy by the hunting industry for get more people to buy their products, satisfaction with the experience of hunting be dammed. I advocate for hunting when ever I can - but I’m not out their advocating for more hunters. If anyone can seriously say they want more hunters where they hunt. I will give them my all my pins for Coshocton County Ohio. Nuff said.

I too see significantly less trucks parked on public land after opening day - I was / am still a pretty shitty hunter so I had to hunt past many opening days. In my limited number of hunting years I can’t recall seeing a whole lot of bucks running around after the opening day of gun season though. State department stats show that most deer are killed on the opening day of rifle season.

I will disagree with you about not displacing hunters / adding hunters to public land when we buy hunting land. When we buy land - most of the time it’s hunted by some local or moderate hunters. Where do those moderate/ opening day hunters go - they quit hunting or they go to public land.

To the OPs point are traditional hunting camps dying - I would say yes they are.

 

[MRBB]

To be honest - it sounds like the gist of your argument is these lazy millennials don’t want to put in the work to hunt on public land.

I heard a similar argument in USMC boot camp - “damn millennials, damn new Marines, the war is over”. Nobody told that to the locals in Fallujah.

Well I can tell you - go to Ohio and WI. Who will you see out there grinding on public land during bow season - it’s 20-30 year olds.

I also help my dad at his gun shop weighing in deer - who do I see smashing “decent” deer on public - Goddamn millennials. I surmise because they don’t have any money - and they are forced to hunt public land. Plus - it’s “cool” to be a public land / saddle / first lite hunter these days.

I don’t think anyone expects the game department to provide them with their own herd of unpressured of 160” bucks to hunt. I certainly don’t. It’s why I and my friends go to great lengths to get away from other hunters. But that’s pretty difficult now with OnX and YouTube - people got this figured out.

Regarding R3 - If anyone can seriously say they want more hunters where they hunt. I will give them my all my pins for Coshocton County Ohio. Nuff said.

I too see significantly less trucks parked on public land after opening day - I have hunted lots after opening day. I was / am still a pretty shitty hunter. In my limited number of hunting years I can’t recall seeing a whole lot of bucks running around after the opening day of gun season though.

I will disagree with you about not displacing hunters / adding hunters to public land when we buy hunting land. When we do that guess where those moderate/ opening day hunters go -they quit hunting or they go to public land.

Also I really ain’t about some sort of generation battle on a habitat forum.

To the OPs point are traditional hunting camps dying - I would say yes they are.

MY point has nothing to do with if millennials, want to put in work on public lands or NOT
my point is simple kids are NOT getting into his sport, and without them doing so this sport of HUNTING will slowing be dying off!
as the older folks pass on, and as stated above, the folks lucky enough to OWN farms or hunting camps, as they PASS on, and NO kids or younger generations what the land or camps
its an even larger nail in the coffin of the sport!
I Hunt OHIO, and I agree most all the hunters I see again are like you, 30-'s and 40's and older
I DON"T see kids in there teens at ALL< be it with there fathers or likes!

I DO know some that DO take there kids, but if they DIDN"T take them, and make the effort to TAKE them, the kids wouldn;t have the drive to do so on there own!
when given the chance to talk to younger hunters, MANY have straight up told me they hunt cause there DAD wants them too, but don't LOVE the sport at all, they just do it to make DAD happy and its NOT that bad a time, as long as weather is nice that is!

and back to the way you describe public lands and saying there are NO more remote places due to modern tech showing folks things
again, walk back 3 mile into a big public land and tell me how many hunters you find
when i do so, I find NONE minus maybe a few die hards on opening day

there is a HUGE difference in some one KNOWING where a spot is and them actually GOING THERE!

 

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

MY point has nothing to do with if millennials, want to put in work on public lands or NOT
my point is simple kids are NOT getting into his sport, and without them doing so this sport of HUNTING will slowing be dying off!
as the older folks pass on, and as stated above, the folks lucky enough to OWN farms or hunting camps, as they PASS on, and NO kids or younger generations what the land or camps
its an even larger nail in the coffin of the sport!
I Hunt OHIO, and I agree most all the hunters I see again are like you, 30-'s and 40's and older
I DON"T see kids in there teens at ALL< be it with there fathers or likes!

I DO know some that DO take there kids, but if they DIDN"T take them, and make the effort to TAKE them, the kids wouldn;t have the drive to do so on there own!
when given the chance to talk to younger hunters, MANY have straight up told me they hunt cause there DAD wants them too, but don't LOVE the sport at all, they just do it to make DAD happy and its NOT that bad a time, as long as weather is nice that is!

and back to the way you describe public lands and saying there are NO more remote places due to modern tech showing folks things
again, walk back 3 mile into a big public land and tell me how many hunters you find
when i do so, I find NONE minus maybe a few die hards on opening day

there is a HUGE difference in some one KNOWING where a spot is and them actually GOING THERE!

We should have a beer sometime.

 

[spaniel]

MY point has nothing to do with if millennials, want to put in work on public lands or NOT
my point is simple kids are NOT getting into his sport, and without them doing so this sport of HUNTING will slowing be dying off!
as the older folks pass on, and as stated above, the folks lucky enough to OWN farms or hunting camps, as they PASS on, and NO kids or younger generations what the land or camps
its an even larger nail in the coffin of the sport!
I Hunt OHIO, and I agree most all the hunters I see again are like you, 30-'s and 40's and older
I DON"T see kids in there teens at ALL< be it with there fathers or likes!

I DO know some that DO take there kids, but if they DIDN"T take them, and make the effort to TAKE them, the kids wouldn;t have the drive to do so on there own!
when given the chance to talk to younger hunters, MANY have straight up told me they hunt cause there DAD wants them too, but don't LOVE the sport at all, they just do it to make DAD happy and its NOT that bad a time, as long as weather is nice that is!

and back to the way you describe public lands and saying there are NO more remote places due to modern tech showing folks things
again, walk back 3 mile into a big public land and tell me how many hunters you find
when i do so, I find NONE minus maybe a few die hards on opening day

there is a HUGE difference in some one KNOWING where a spot is and them actually GOING THERE

Not disagreeing with you, can't see I haven't seen some of these signs, but then why the crazy point creep with western tags? Are we to expect that this is some sort of balloon that will implode when it hits a generational gap? Because over the past 10 years this has gotten insane. Tags I got over the counter 3-4 years ago now require 2-3 years of points to draw.