I want to keep this a friendly debate. If my vulgar language offended - I apologize. I wasn’t meaning to invalidate the facts - more meaning to shine some light on the R3 movement.
But my point is - in the 60s, 70, 80s - you had 4- 6 guys hunting every 100 acre farm for 1-2 weeks in November. (Call that a hunter density on private of 1 hunter/20 acres. With 5 guys hunting the 100 acre patch of public for a week. (Call that a hunter density of 1 hunter / 20 acres. Now all those farms are posted, leased, hunted by 1-2 family members. With the remaining (albeit overall lower number) of hunters pushed into the public. So your public hunter numbers / acre have greatly increased. AND THEY RUN AROUND FROM BOW to LATE MUZZLELOADER - OCT - DEC.
The main factor in all those hunter satisfaction surveys is that what makes hunters dissatisfied with their hunting experiences is losing a hunting area and HUNTING PRESSURE. If someone here doesn’t think hunting pressure is the main driver behind deer hunting satisfaction - throw me some GPS cords to your property or favorite hunting spots. Hunting pressure is everything. It’s why people wait years to hunt in Iowa or Kansas. It’s why we all own are own land.
As far as getting away from pressure (in good deer density area) that cats out of the bag. Mapping software makes those hidden spots easily findable and reachable. It’s hard to get lost in 2022.
I’ve witnessed this first hand in Vermont and my wife’s family farm in Southwest Wisconsin. We used to have permission to drive deer on 20 farms and we’d kill 30 deer in a week - now we have permission to drive 1 farm.
As far as finding finding less pressure in out of the way areas yes - that’s true. I (MY EXPERIENCE) find there’s a lot less deer! Thats why deer camps are dead. There are very few deer. That was the driving factor behind me buying my own land.
I know what your thinking - guy wants groomed hunting lands with heated box blinds - and that ain’t it. I want to hunt unpressured deer that move in the daytime. I’ve been waste deep in freezing water, in the dark, in the nastiest shot you can find dragging my son along with me - he shot his first deer about 20 minutes after a crying fit (no deer seen and cold) on the last day of the last season on a piece of public. But doing that day after day is tough on a grown man, much less a kid. It’s like practice with the team all week - only to sit the bench for the game.
As far as the kids getting into hunting - Do we need to get more kids into hunting - I don’t really know if we need to make it a priority. Do you think we need to incentivize kids with access to the best ground in farm country to hunt? Those kids are going to hunt regardless. Do we need to incentivize kids with no access to land to hunt - I think so. How can we do that see my previous paragraph - give them access to high deer density hunting areas with low pressure. I’d like to see the game departments either buy up or lease every piece of ground they can get ahold of, but in this real estate market - ain’t happening.
Is there a reckoning coming - FOR SURE. Pittman Robertson funds are flush with cash from everyone and their brother buying a gun the last 3 years. Don’t think all these politicians see all that money and want to get their fat fingers on it? When that money decreases - fish and game departments will be hurting. It doesn’t help that all the “non consumptive uses” balk at paying any sort of taxes towards on their outdoor gear (kayaks, tents, gps) when they do use things that hunters/fishermen pay for - trails, public land, boat launches.
I also would like to keep things civil , and I GOT what you were saying
but the way your viewing things IMO< isn;t the way the world works
NO where does it say the GAME dept is supposed to FIND or provide you with a hunting spot with LOW pressure, where deer are NOT feeling pressure!
if you WANT unpressed deer and want to control who hunts where and when, this is why folks BUY There own land!
if you cannot afford to do so, again NOT the state game dept's fault!
they provide places to HUNT for the public, be them more or less crowded, its ALL they are doing! there providing places where game can live yr round and the PUBLIC can access it to use it!
MANY MANY MANY people kill BIG bucks on public land every yr, many ADAPT to how they hunt based on location and PRESSURE
if you again DON"T like that, well, again its NOT the state game dept's job to make you happy on type of pressure a public land gets
NEXT
you mention how in the 60-70-80's and so on when hunter numbers were much higher
well keep in mind, places like PA for example, also had MORE DEER
as a fact they claimed PA to have over a million deer back in its prime when it also had a MILLION hunters
you keep saying PRESSURE based on number of hunters and show examples of how leased land with less hunters gets what BETTER quality deer
well again, thats not rocket science
and that is exactly WHY so many BUY there own land and GROW better deer and have CONTROL over pressure on THERE LAND
you say with today's tech, all the spots are easy to find
MAYBE,. but that doesn't mean many actually take the time to GET to them after finding them
every study I found on HOW far from the truck the average hunter goes, its FEW that go very far
' most are under 300 yards from there vehicle!
in MOST states ONLY about 15% of deer hunters kill a BUCK
and of those that do so regularly, there more DIE hard hunters than the average OPENING day folks
and these are also the guys that BUY There own land to hunt and have that control over!
and IMO why so many KIDS are not getting into or staying in the sport, they DON"T have there own land to have it how they FEEL they need it to be successful or enjoy hunting
so they rather NO hunting over learning how to hunt in more pressured places!
But either way you slice it, hunter numbers are dropping, NO BS< just facts
and to be honest after owning a gun shop, being part of dozens of hunting clubs and talking with hunters often, more and roe hunters that PLAN to stay hunters BUY there own land and STOPPED hunting public lands YRS ago!
so these folks are NOT adding pressure to public lands or the amount of hunters using them!
long term die hard hunters are BUYING there own land, NOT migrating to public lands!
or at least in the states I travel too and folks I talk too! and in ALL my travels about public lands in hunting season, where after opening day, there rather empty anymore!