Durability of legacy hunting camps

[Howboutthemdawgs]

The whole hunter numbers dropping is bullshit. I’m still out there grinding on public land and there is more pressure than ever. I think Matt Rinella was onto something - until we have landowners begging us to come shoot B&C deer - let’s chill on the recruitment thing.

While technically there are less hunters now than peak boomer snake belly years - there are more hunters squeezed onto to a dwindling # of acres. Fragmentation, Development, Out of state landowners, serious hunters want their own property. How many farms in the 80s had 3-8 guys hunting them? Lots. Now those same farms are leased to 1-2 guys who shoot booners every year.

Matt Rinellas “rant” was epic and spot on. He took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

The other thing about the deer camp thing - my experience is that deer camps are usually where there are vast acres of public woods. That’s usually low density hard hunting. If I’m going to spend my weekends and vacation working on something - it better be productive as far as punching tags. My guess is any millennial who is willing to work hard at a deer camp - probably feels the same way.


Say what you want about sitting in the woods listening to the birds chirping - but I’m out there to kill deer. I really get tickled watching my kids kill deer. Because I was that 12 year old walking around the “Big Woods” not killing deer - thinking “this sucks - I’d rather be riding my dirt bike with my friends”.

I thought about this a good long while. It’s why the property I bought is 3 hours away but in farm county. When I could have bought something for half the price/ half the distance away in the Adirondacks.

 

[Spike_Horn_Shooter]

Plus those areas in the Northwoods used to be a lot better hunting. I would guess due to less logging and the reintroduction of wolves.

Maybe with the exception of PA - nobody is talking about how hot the hunting is in Maine, NH, ADK, UP or Northern MM

 

[SD51555]

The whole hunter numbers dropping is bullshit. I’m still out there grinding on public land and there is more pressure than ever. I think Matt Rinella was onto something - until we have landowners begging us to come shoot B&C deer - let’s chill on the recruitment thing.

While technically there are less hunters now than peak boomer snake belly years - there are more hunters squeezed onto to a dwindling # of acres. Fragmentation, Development, Out of state landowners, serious hunters want their own property. How many farms in the 80s had 3-8 guys hunting them? Lots. Now those same farms are leased to 1-2 guys who shoot booners every year.

I saw that coming when I was a teenager. Don't forget to add in all the habitat the feds and DNR destroy to force the tallgrass prairie 'restoration'.

Before owning property, I never had even half decent property to hunt on, and I was always one up and coming nephew from being booted from that. Unless you've got some major habitat improvements up by me, it doesn't even pay to hunt. A couple guys in my camp go hunt deep on the public, and they've probably seen one deer for every three years on stand. That kind of failure seems to crush a guy's spirit for the big woods, and then they migrate south into zone 2 where they can at least see some deer.

When I first started running into the politics of tight land as a kid, I made up my mind that as soon as I was able I was going to get my own land, no matter how crappy, so that I always had a place to go. Still haven't killed a deer up there, and have only seen one potential wall mounter in 15 years, but at this point it's the best it's ever been, and that's still pretty awful compared to even moderately more appealing areas. But it's mine, and there are no politics. It's kind of like being the president of Albania. Nobody takes you seriously, but you're still president, and that's good enough.

My area is lottery this year, and I half wonder if it shouldn't be bucks only after last winter.

 

[bwoods11]

My kids and their friends are serious hunters and they have hunted more states than I have, including elk, antelope and mule deer hunts.

They are die hard archery hunters and they do occasional gun hunts as well. I think the popularity is strong in my area of Minnesota with the young hunters.

 

[Kooch]

That's cool, good luck. I remember your posts about your way up north 80 and how it was a challenge but you thought you were making progress.

Yep. The place was looking pretty good. The clover and chicory in the old skinny plot was beautiful this year. We were up last weekend to collect the last of our stuff and say our goodbye. Bittersweet. On to new things in the prairie.

Here’s a picture of the big north plot we cleared last year. I poured the lime and winter rye to it last year. I think this year would have been special.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skeeter]

Sure but not when you own a couple hundred acres in another state and pay taxes and utilities, etc. But whatever, there are bigger fish to fry. Just seems inequitable for landowners.

Could be worse. I had an uncle with two and a half sections in SD and he couldn't get a firearm deer tag for the last number of years because the residents buy up all the tags before they become available to the NRs.

 

[Triple C]

Copied the below comments from the GON forum that is based here in GA. This is happening on an almost weekly basis here in GA.

Our lease of 38 years gone in the blink of an eye.
no issues, no problems, no warning....just get out.
Gut punch
RIP Coleman Creek Hunt Club. Est 1984
We're sad :(

Never have I seen more guys losing long-term leases. Guys that have been hunting together for decades in the same camp are losing their leases.

So thankful I bought my own piece of dirt years ago. Covid along with urban/suburban social unrest has caused a flood of folks wanting their own "bug-out" place to get away. Rural land prices have skyrocketed.

As far as my place, it's just family for the most part and invited friends from time to time. 1 non-family member who is treated like family with the green light to hunt and stay anytime he wants. He goes above and beyond to contribute with whatever needs to be done.

 

[H20fwler]

When I was a kid we had very low deer numbers locally and throughout a lot of the state.
There were lots of deer in the southern part of state and a few pockets to the north. We had an old mobile home up in the NW corner of the state on a small farm that my Dad, uncles and close friends would hunt during our week long gun season between about 8-10 guys maybe five or six deer would get shot a year.
It was a lot of fun, good company and great eating. Camp kind of dissolved as family members got old and deer hunting got better all over the state.

I’ve been a member of a duck camp in Ontario for a little over 30 years. We lease a house from Sept-January. The membership rotates from 8-12 guys. We call it a club and do have some “group” property we leave there year round, sixty or so decoys and some assorted hunting gear if needed.
Almost all the hunting is on public with members bringing most of their own gear. Some guys do like hiring Indian guides on the local reservations.
The dues cover the cost of the house lease and our rules are pretty simple, you can bring guests but same guest only twice a season no matter how long the stay, if they want to hunt there more than that they need to join. Everyone splits cost of common household groceries and items. Any food left in fridge is public domain, clean up house before you leave, beds and rooms are first come first serve with members getting priority. All game laws must be followed. We try to keep any rules to a minimum.
Membership has rolled over a lot over the years, have hardly ever had an issue with our few rules and it has been a great time especially late in year when lots of members are there.
Have had a few older members pass on, that has sucked. When I first started I was one of the younger guys..now I’m the senior member.
Covid really put a hit on us and the mandatory vaccination crap and booster checks at border have been a huge strain..now game birds can’t be transported over the border, that may finally be the end of our club.

 

[SD51555]

Copied the below comments from the GON forum that is based here in GA. This is happening on an almost weekly basis here in GA.

Our lease of 38 years gone in the blink of an eye.
no issues, no problems, no warning....just get out.
Gut punch
RIP Coleman Creek Hunt Club. Est 1984
We're sad :(

Never have I seen more guys losing long-term leases. Guys that have been hunting together for decades in the same camp are losing their leases.

So thankful I bought my own piece of dirt years ago. Covid along with urban/suburban social unrest has caused a flood of folks wanting their own "bug-out" place to get away. Rural land prices have skyrocketed.

As far as my place, it's just family for the most part and invited friends from time to time. 1 non-family member who is treated like family with the green light to hunt and stay anytime he wants. He goes above and beyond to contribute with whatever needs to be done.

I've got the feeling that there is a limitless amount of money sloshing around out there to buy up land, and it's only getting worse as more entities get in on eliminating the problem.

 

[MRBB]

The whole hunter numbers dropping is bullshit. I’m still out there grinding on public land and there is more pressure than ever. I think Matt Rinella was onto something - until we have landowners begging us to come shoot B&C deer - let’s chill on the recruitment thing.

While technically there are less hunters now than peak boomer snake belly years - there are more hunters squeezed onto to a dwindling # of acres. Fragmentation, Development, Out of state landowners, serious hunters want their own property. How many farms in the 80s had 3-8 guys hunting them? Lots. Now those same farms are leased to 1-2 guys who shoot booners every year.

well its rather ignorant of you to say something like this, as FACTS are in here in PA< lic sales SHOW dropping numbers of hunters
its not a opinion I have, its a FACT
maybe where your at its different, but that doesn't mean its that way every where
feel free to come take a ride about ANY northern public lands the second week of rifle deer season and see how EMPTY the woods are
the ONLY places that seem to STILL have high numbers of hunters are in area's where hunt able LAND is in low amounts!
and so many flock to the closest land they can hunt ion!

but that doesn;'t mean there are tons of hunters EVERY WHERE there is public land, far from it!
as a fact its FAR from that in most places as you get farther from the populated ares!

so, before bashing someone for stating some facts, maybe learn about things
hunting lic's sales reflect HOW many hunters are in a state and them sales of lic's are dropping in pretty much EVERY state
PA right now has lost lic sales every single yr for the past 12+ yrs in a row, the number of hunters IS DROPPING< FACT!
don't like it, tough cookies, but it is a fact!
Kids are NOT getting into the sport as they once did, FACT, as well!

 

[Mortenson]

But hasn't the gripe from PA always been that there's way too many hunters? Maybe things are just now getting to where they need to be. I personally don't think all the public lands of the nation need to be chock full with hunters. If you go farther off the beaten path, you're supposed to be rewarded right?

 

[MRBB]

But hasn't the gripe from PA always been that there's way too many hunters? Maybe things are just now getting to where they need to be. I personally don't think all the public lands of the nation need to be chock full with hunters. If you go farther off the beaten path, you're supposed to be rewarded right?all comes down to maybe what you want

this is a IMO a loaded question,
, as what one hunter wants another may not! so I am not answering it with my personal choice!

but the sport in itself, is where hunter numbers matter most !
as once you stop getting NEW kids into the sport, it doesn;t matter HOW many OLD Hunters you have, hunting "X" amount of acres!
as once there gone, without new blood to replace them, and to keep the sport THRIVING< things can go down hill fast!
as its LIC sales that FUND the game dept's
its there MAJOR income for things, raising lic sales will only go so far in sustaining things, as , prices rise, it also means MANY will STOP buying them, making matters worse! NO better!

SO< if you loose that income to the point they are unable to sustain things, and the first things that will go is LAND< , thru sales to afford things

SO< if one's goal is to have the woods to themselves, well you may view less hunters as a GOOD thing, for NOW!
but that will change as time passes as lis costs increase and increase to compensate for lost sales
will it happen tomorrow NO it won't
but loosing a few generations of kids from getting into the sport, doesn't suggest a BRIGHT future for a sport so many HERE i gather love!

 

[Mortenson]

It's loaded for sure. I think hunting and space need to go hand in hand. Just from a safety perspective. Maybe it finally dawned on some hunters that they don't like the crowd, and they quit. I know that doesn't help the license sales. They might need to lay off a few state workers and streamline the budget a hair. I fully realize we as hunters need to stick together or we'll lose it all. Too much is still too much. We booted hunters off our place because the hunting sucked. Could care less about the lost comradery or license sales. Highest priority was placed on my family's hunting and safety. I know others have different situations. The guys we removed found other places to hunt. A few of them who didn't really seem to like hunting all that much just quit. They were the type to show up, take their deer and leave.

 

[MRBB]

It's loaded for sure. I think hunting and space need to go hand in hand. Just from a safety perspective. Maybe it finally dawned on some hunters that they don't like the crowd, and they quit. I know that doesn't help the license sales. They might need to lay off a few state workers and streamline the budget a hair. I fully realize we as hunters need to stick together or we'll lose it all. Too much is still too much. We booted hunters off our place because the hunting sucked. Could care less about the lost comradery or license sales. Highest priority was placed on my family's hunting and safety. I know others have different situations. The guys we removed found other places to hunt. A few of them who didn't really seem to like hunting all that much just quit. They were the type to show up, take their deer and leave.

safety is also why I gather BOW hunter numbers have held there own or have grown, as many places that USED to open for rifle/gun hunting, have now become archery or archery shotgun only area's
which I gather a lot more places BOTH public and private will end up as human expansion keeps going!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

safety is also why I gather BOW hunter numbers have held there own or have grown, as many places that USED to open for rifle/gun hunting, have now become archery or archery shotgun only area's
which I gather a lot more places BOTH public and private will end up as human expansion keeps going!

IMO there are a number of contributing reasons for archery season participation growth beyond areas being closed to gun hunting:
- It greatly expands your hunting season dates
- If the only places you have access to are public land or private that is highly pressured during gun season, there's a good chance you can hunt archery season with less crowds
- Even if a place is crowded with archery hunters you dont have a side concern of some dumbass slinging lead without concern for what's behind the target, shooting at movement, etc
- Archery Equipment has become much easier to get proficient with. If crossbows are allowed in archery season the barrier of becoming proficient with a bow that keeps gun hunters from hunting archery season is eliminated.

 

[PatinPA]

But hasn't the gripe from PA always been that there's way too many hunters? Maybe things are just now getting to where they need to be. I personally don't think all the public lands of the nation need to be chock full with hunters. If you go farther off the beaten path, you're supposed to be rewarded right?

Where I am in PA the private farms that still allow public hunting are far more crowded than the public land. And I'm fortunate enough to be surrounded by some good public land with maintained food plots. My future brother in law lives in SE PA and he says the public lands there are always crowded. If you go to the northern parts of the state with very large public lands you can hunt for a week without seeing anyone.

 

[H20fwler]

Recent phenomenon here in Ohio…archery hunters now harvest over half the deer taken in a season. And half the deer killed overall are antlered bucks.

 

[yoderjac]

The whole hunter numbers dropping is bullshit. I’m still out there grinding on public land and there is more pressure than ever. I think Matt Rinella was onto something - until we have landowners begging us to come shoot B&C deer - let’s chill on the recruitment thing.

While technically there are less hunters now than peak boomer snake belly years - there are more hunters squeezed onto to a dwindling # of acres. Fragmentation, Development, Out of state landowners, serious hunters want their own property. How many farms in the 80s had 3-8 guys hunting them? Lots. Now those same farms are leased to 1-2 guys who shoot booners every year.

Nationally, the number of hunters is demonstrably decreasing. That does not mean the number of hunters is diminishing or amount of hunting pressure decreasing in any specific local. Your point about the amount of accessible public land decreasing is well taken.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Nationally, the number of hunters is demonstrably decreasing.

We had accepted that as fact for a while but more and more are starting to call bullshit. I do buy that much of that notion is from people trying to sell something.

Hunting: number of participants US 2021 | Statista

In 2021, the number of people who participated in hunting in the United States (aged six years and older) amounted to approximately 25.87 million.

www.statista.com

We Actually Have No Idea How Many Hunters There Are in America

How many hunters are there in America? Turns out, no one is quite sure. License data varies so wildly from state to state that there’s no accurate accounting of overall hunter numbers. Here’s why that’s a problem and what’s being done to fix it.

www.outdoorlife.com