Do You have a Favorite Hunting Show?

[Steve Bartylla]

Bill is a really good guy and has a good amount of legit habitat Improvement, deer management and hunting experience, combined with a very sharp mind. I bounce any deer management observations off him at the end of each year to get his input. I also bounce the same observations off of John Ozoga, Keith McCafrey and a close friend no one would have heard of, but is the best deer manager I know (Chad John). Of everyone I know (and it's a real small industry, where everyone that's established knows everyone from "Dr. Deer" himself to Tiffy and most in between), they are the 4 I have the most respect for, as it applies to deer management. Whether they agree or disagree with my observations does a lot to help me determine if I may be on to something or if the answer is really much deeper.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Steve, your saying a lot of these shows are ruining there own business basically? Pretty much happens in every line of work from what i can tell. What are the big names going to have to do to keep themselves and the industry afloat then? Because it sure seems a lot of guys are not happy with the way the shows are aired the way they are! Any thoughts?

 

[SD51555]

Low capital solutions are the ankle biters that take down mature industries. I've flirted with the idea of doing my own videos and starting on youtube. Won't be high quality, full of product placement, or even very successful in terms of harvest. But i've been starving for something more real and practical. I've been toying around the last couple years with my newer standard def camera, and it puts out a good enough quality video.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

MO,

I don't think the TV situation is a big impact on the hunting companies in the long run either way. TV doesn't drive demand for most product groups (whether every TV show went belly up tomorrow or not, people will still need bows, arrows, heads, most every major product category). It merely helps push buyers towards one or the other (The Boone Collectors are so cool and they shoot _______ heads (no clue what arrow heads they shoot, but insert whichever they are sponsored by). since I want to be cool like them, I'll buy the same thing.).

As far as the "big names" go, they're also in good shape. Some companies want to be associated with them because the key decision maker legitimately star struck by this one or that one and wants to become buddies with them (go out partying and hunting with them). Other companies believe they'll help them move the extra $50,000-$500,000 they pay them in products and more. Yet others believe sponsoring them will give them the exposure they need to break into their niche market better. There's a long list of reasons that companies believe the very top names are worth gobs of $.

The ones in TV land that are headed for trouble or already neck deep in it are the TV shows and "stars" that aren't Lee & Tiffy, Bill Winke, Pat & Nichole, Bone Collectors, Jim Shockey and so on. If people like those listed make up the top two tiers in TV Land, it's a lot of those 3rd tier on down shows and "stars" that are hurting or most likely going to be in the not distant future.

We are approaching what will likely be the 3rd revolution of a repeating cycle of TV shows and stations folding, as the TV world shrinks. It builds and builds, then corrects its size by a station or two going bankrupt and taking a bunch of shows with them, only to starting growing in the number of stations and shows again.


SD, I have no doubt you can get a lot of viewers. The catch 22 is for those trying to make a living in that niche of the industry. If they don't pimp products, how do they cover their costs and get paid? You can get product sponsors (where they give you no $, but give you free product...More than a few shows on the hunting channels do that, because they can't fill all their sponsorship slots and they believe the audience and potential future sponsors will take them more seriously if they pretend _____, ______ & ______ sponsor their show, instead of being 3 sponsors short). Sponsors won't pay if they don't feel they are getting more than whatever they charge back in sales. Something like that may eventually get a few paying members to view the videos, if the youtube channel got enough viewers and became established, not many would even pay $1 a month, because they can watch so much stuff for free. Charging for anything when free alternative exist is a tough road.

 

[SD51555]

I hear ya. I am not considering it to make money. My first motivation would be to do something I enjoy, and that is getting outside and documenting it. If I found a way to make even enough money to pay for gas, it'd be a bonus. I have been thinking a lot about finally working on something I enjoy and focusing less on the almighty $. Still need to eat, I get it. So I won't be quitting my day job anytime soon. Deep down, It would be neat to gain some notoriety for creating a valuable show in terms of content and people enjoying it vs one where you hope its ok and you can struggle through the intense promo.

 

[bryant]

SD, my experience pre dates the hunting channels(VHS days). You mentioned not quitting your day job but if you want to do a series on you tube similar to a season on a cable channel, plan for working a second full time job. I would recommend writing a series outline and outlines for each episode in advance of shooting video. Time is one of the hindrances and having an outline will cut down on wasted time shooting video that isn't useful. One benefit from a production standpoint is that a show with a heavy emphasis on habitat as well as hunting will spread production time out much more than just a hunting show limited by season dates.

Another thought on that type of show would be to organize teams in various parts of the country. As we all are aware of here, my habitat here in arkansas and growing season is much different than what is found in the upper and lower midwest or the northeast. It would be a lot easier to capture that with local teams rather than trying to fit in the travel and I think it would expand viewership more than say just shooting in AR or MN.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I hear ya. I am not considering it to make money. My first motivation would be to do something I enjoy, and that is getting outside and documenting it. If I found a way to make even enough money to pay for gas, it'd be a bonus. I have been thinking a lot about finally working on something I enjoy and focusing less on the almighty $. Still need to eat, I get it. So I won't be quitting my day job anytime soon. Deep down, It would be neat to gain some notoriety for creating a valuable show in terms of content and people enjoying it vs one where you hope its ok and you can struggle through the intense promo.

SD, one thing I can tell you is, you do everything in life with making money in mind! You can enjoy your ventures a lot more with cash in your pocket!;)

 

[Jordan Selsor]

From what I am reading in all these posts, is there may be a good opportunity for some actual real life Hunter to put a Hunting/Habitat show together that would be 95% everything else to do with hunting and only 5% killing, or no killing at all. Is there a show like that out there? Or is the killing of a big buck the only way to get most people to watch?

You could get people attention real quick by comparing seed prices to the buck on a bag "food plot mixes". Could call it managing for whitetails in the real world!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

You could get people attention real quick by comparing seed prices to the buck on a bag "food plot mixes". Could call it managing for whitetails in the real world!

Funny!

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I would like to elaborate a bit more, for those that aren't familiar. Meat Eater is not a habitat show, it is a show about why we hunt, the instinct within, and how we (should) respect the process by utilizing the animal. He often introduces people to hunting, I don't even know what brand of rifle he uses (there is obviously advertising, but it is less obnoxious than any other show I watch) and he emphasizes the experience more than the "trophy" and prestige gathering. If you're looking for a management show, it ain't for you; if you're looking for an enjoyable show by someone that you would like to share camp with, you should check it out.
Natty: I guarantee you he would be down with that type of hunt, but he would want some kind of meat to cook during the episode, so that could be a problem. ;)

Steve is a great spokesman for our hunting heritage! FYI he shoots Caralina custom rifles;) My buddy works there. Would love to have them build me a 7mmmag! Maybe some day

 

[MoBuckChaser]

My idea for a show name would be "BuckChaser The Series" We could film habitat work, Film deer and deer hunts, then head to the bar at night like my old man and kick the crap out of infidels for fun!:D

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Steve is a great spokesman for our hunting heritage! FYI he shoots Caralina custom rifles;) My buddy works there. Would love to have them build me a 7mmmag! Maybe some day

Now you are starting to catch my attention. Tell us more about these guns grasshopper!

 

[Jordan Selsor]

My idea for a show name would be "BuckChaser The Series" We could film habitat work, Film deer and deer hunts, then head to the bar at night like my old man and kick the crap out of infidels for fun!:D

Dude! Put me on the payroll haha
I would need a few months to get back in fighting shape though!

 

[sandbur]

Bill is a really good guy and has a good amount of legit habitat Improvement, deer management and hunting experience, combined with a very sharp mind. I bounce any deer management observations off him at the end of each year to get his input. I also bounce the same observations off of John Ozoga, Keith McCafrey and a close friend no one would have heard of, but is the best deer manager I know (Chad John). Of everyone I know (and it's a real small industry, where everyone that's established knows everyone from "Dr. Deer" himself to Tiffy and most in between), they are the 4 I have the most respect for, as it applies to deer management. Whether they agree or disagree with my observations does a lot to help me determine if I may be on to something or if the answer is really much deeper.

I read everything form Ozoga and McCafrey that I can get my hands on. They have good information that I can relate to.

Does D and DH print a north and south edition anymore?

It seems to have drifted away from the type of magazine that I used to see and prefer.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Now you are starting to catch my attention. Tell us more about these guns grasshopper!

CCR check them out online! They ain't cheap but they sure build a nice rifle. A friend of mine that we vacation with annually works there part time. I bet we could get em right if we ordered 2!

 

[Steve Bartylla]

SD, I'm not trying to dissuade you in the least. My comments were with all the "I hate the product plugs" comments overall in this thread in mind. It wasn't intended as a "you can't do that" statement. I get it. Frankly, I got in the industry when it was a LOT easier, and it was darn near impossible back then. Because I started very small, I was able to gain these people's trust/build relationships with them. My first video I did was on a "give me a gallon of Scent Killer and sell me a bow at cost and I'll list you both as sponsors of the video basis, and used a professionally done proposal to deliver that request, after having a brief phone convo with them...If I was just starting out and tried that today, the proposal wouldn't even be looked at, as all the companies I targeted as having the best stuff/wanting to be associated with have numerous people hitting them up every single day. When I broke in, it was every week, not every day. The long and short of it is that, if you want to watch hunting shows today, you will be exposed to products or the show be done.

Now, in your case specifically, if you want to do this, don't let anyone stop you. It could be a fun hobby (we all pour $$$$$ into habitat stuff...this isn't any different: i.e. pouring time and money into something you enjoy). If you or anyone else want to turn it into a business, the trick is figuring out how to generate a revenue stream before you begin. those that don't almost always fail gloriously.

Art,
No, they don't do a N/S edition any more.

With that, I'm off to try swap chips, reset a handful of existing stands and try to get a stand up in one of the biggest oaks I've ever tried using...It will take 2 straps just to get the climbing sticks around the darn thing, but it's the only tree that works in the "right" spot.

Enjoy

 

[scott44]

MO,

I don't think the TV situation is a big impact on the hunting companies in the long run either way. TV doesn't drive demand for most product groups (whether every TV show went belly up tomorrow or not, people will still need bows, arrows, heads, most every major product category). It merely helps push buyers towards one or the other (The Boone Collectors are so cool and they shoot _______ heads (no clue what arrow heads they shoot, but insert whichever they are sponsored by). since I want to be cool like them, I'll buy the same thing.).

As far as the "big names" go, they're also in good shape. Some companies want to be associated with them because the key decision maker legitimately star struck by this one or that one and wants to become buddies with them (go out partying and hunting with them). Other companies believe they'll help them move the extra $50,000-$500,000 they pay them in products and more. Yet others believe sponsoring them will give them the exposure they need to break into their niche market better. There's a long list of reasons that companies believe the very top names are worth gobs of $.

The ones in TV land that are headed for trouble or already neck deep in it are the TV shows and "stars" that aren't Lee & Tiffy, Bill Winke, Pat & Nichole, Bone Collectors, Jim Shockey and so on. If people like those listed make up the top two tiers in TV Land, it's a lot of those 3rd tier on down shows and "stars" that are hurting or most likely going to be in the not distant future.

We are approaching what will likely be the 3rd revolution of a repeating cycle of TV shows and stations folding, as the TV world shrinks. It builds and builds, then corrects its size by a station or two going bankrupt and taking a bunch of shows with them, only to starting growing in the number of stations and shows again.


SD, I have no doubt you can get a lot of viewers. The catch 22 is for those trying to make a living in that niche of the industry. If they don't pimp products, how do they cover their costs and get paid? You can get product sponsors (where they give you no $, but give you free product...More than a few shows on the hunting channels do that, because they can't fill all their sponsorship slots and they believe the audience and potential future sponsors will take them more seriously if they pretend _____, ______ & ______ sponsor their show, instead of being 3 sponsors short). Sponsors won't pay if they don't feel they are getting more than whatever they charge back in sales. Something like that may eventually get a few paying members to view the videos, if the youtube channel got enough viewers and became established, not many would even pay $1 a month, because they can watch so much stuff for free. Charging for anything when free alternative exist is a tough road.

Steve, Thanks for a little insight to the industry! I't good to have someone that's been on both sides.

 

[Jason]

From what I am reading in all these posts, is there may be a good opportunity for some actual real life Hunter to put a Hunting/Habitat show together that would be 95% everything else to do with hunting and only 5% killing, or no killing at all. Is there a show like that out there? Or is the killing of a big buck the only way to get most people to watch?

midwest whitetail puts out mostly habitat videos. they've had some kills already this year. if you havent alrady, i think you should check out their web site. tons of videos out there that are mosly habitat.

i always wonder when these shows are going to catch on to the fact that so many people (seems like most people) do not care about the kills at all and want to see what lead up to the kill ore - the habitat work, stand setup & layout of the place they're hunting.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

SD, I'm not trying to dissuade you in the least. My comments were with all the "I hate the product plugs" comments overall in this thread in mind. It wasn't intended as a "you can't do that" statement. I get it. Frankly, I got in the industry when it was a LOT easier, and it was darn near impossible back then. Because I started very small, I was able to gain these people's trust/build relationships with them. My first video I did was on a "give me a gallon of Scent Killer and sell me a bow at cost and I'll list you both as sponsors of the video basis, and used a professionally done proposal to deliver that request, after having a brief phone convo with them...If I was just starting out and tried that today, the proposal wouldn't even be looked at, as all the companies I targeted as having the best stuff/wanting to be associated with have numerous people hitting them up every single day. When I broke in, it was every week, not every day. The long and short of it is that, if you want to watch hunting shows today, you will be exposed to products or the show be done.

Now, in your case specifically, if you want to do this, don't let anyone stop you. It could be a fun hobby (we all pour $$$$$ into habitat stuff...this isn't any different: i.e. pouring time and money into something you enjoy). If you or anyone else want to turn it into a business, the trick is figuring out how to generate a revenue stream before you begin. those that don't almost always fail gloriously.

Art,
No, they don't do a N/S edition any more.

With that, I'm off to try swap chips, reset a handful of existing stands and try to get a stand up in one of the biggest oaks I've ever tried using...It will take 2 straps just to get the climbing sticks around the darn thing, but it's the only tree that works in the "right" spot.

Enjoy

So if I send you free seed, would you put me in one of your upcoming shows Steve? I could have the Barracuda come with and hunt in here Bikini! Maybe pull a Janet Jackson with a accidental on purpose Nip Slip on Camera! I could drink beer and help edit the show! I could play My banjo for the closing credits. I think we have something Steve!!!:D

 

[wiscwhip]

^^^LOL, you could have your own segment MO. "Habitat Minute with MOBuckChaser"...then make it last about 15 seconds each time.;):D