Disc suggestions please... - Transfered from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

I have been using a tiller for years, but I've be minimizing tillage as I've learned more and more about soil science. My larger tiller had the frame crack and enough damage occurred as a result that it is not worth repairing. I still have a small JD tiller that I can use with our little tractor for specialized uses when I really need a tiller.
We recently entered into an NRCS EQIP program and will be getting back into that or another NRCS program next year. This allowed us to put in firebreaks and do controlled burns. We intend to continue controlled burns every few years for the foreseeable future. So, I need a way to maintain firebreaks before a burn. This is not a job for a tiller, but a disc.
So, rather than replacing my larger tiller, I'm planning on buying a disc. I'd like to hear suggestions based on these needs:
1) Since firebreak maintenance is the main purpose, I need something in the 6' to 7' class. Any wider and I won't be able to turn around in some of the tight spots and may have issues crossing creeks and stuff on the firebreaks. Any smaller and my tractor tires would be wider than the disc for field use.
2) For the same reason, I need something that is 3-pt, not tow-behind.
3) My tractor is a Kioti DK45 4x4 with a FEL. I generally use CAT 2 arms and use bushings if I need a cat 1 piece of equipment. The lift capacity is about 2500 lbs so disc weight is probably not an issue.
4) I'd like an offset disc that has easily adjustable aggressiveness. I'd like to be able to angle it enough to effectively chew up my clay firebreaks before a burn but be able to straighten it for light disking in fields.
5) I'd like the heaviest duty disk I can find, preferably cat 2. When I look at most brands, it seems that most of the heavy duty grade discs are wider and only standard or medium duty levels are available in this size.
I'm looking at a Woods DM7 tomorrow. Does anyone have any suggestions for something heavier duty in this size?
Thanks in advance,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I know u listed 3 pt as criteria but u might take a look at pull behind with hydraulic lift for transport and turning around. You could get the weight with it..otherwise you could add some weights to any 3 pt and pull ok with the kioti. F irebreaks are tough so buy tough

I have an old 5ft fire break disc, it's made for that. The discs are twice the size of the typical disc and the are offset outside out aggressive. I use it on new plots, but it's too agressive on existing. Don't know of any specific brands, but the larger size discs make a big difference on hard or new ground.

If you wait a few days before purchasing I will find out the model that I have. It's exactly what you are looking for.

We use a 3 pt angle blade on our firebreaks and does really well. It can also be used for maintaining roads. I know you asked about a disc but it is something else to think about.

I used a heavy duty disc to cut up ground in new food plots two years ago. It did a great job and cut through stuff that surprised me. Dad picked it up used and he referred to it as a "bush and bog harrow". It is exactly what you describe. Google that and take a look at them.

http://wildlifespeciality.com/PinePlantation.html
I used to hunt with a guy that had a 7' model of the Brushmaster that was a very impressive disc. He was not able to burn a significant portion of his pine plantations and would use this to maintain a 3 year rotation of strip discing.
The way it is set up it functions like an offset disc that is split down the middle so you can straddle the stumps. You can also adjust the gangs back together to cut a single strip.
They aren't cheap, but they are certainly heavy duty.

I have over 1 mile of 12' wide fire breaks for CRP controlled burns. I have a 6' tiller and a 7.5' disk from KingKutter. I originally established the breaks by using a single shank sub-soiler pulled at 2' spacing. I then used the tiller (after killing all vegetation with 2% gly solution).
Now each year I just pull the disk (3 point). One thing I did was order this disk with notched blades on both front and rear gangs. It does a good job for me, I have not had a fire escape. I do 12' because I was told go 2X the height of the grass which doesn't get much over 6'.
When I have a little extra cash I frost seed clover which has worked as a fire break as well as bare dirt, if burning in the spring after green-up.
Hope that helps. I basically had to make do with the equipment I had. I use the same disk for my food plots but then pull a 12'X8' drag harrow to break up the clods caused by aggressive disk plates.

Y, i have been using a LandPride 3pt disk that you should consider.
it is the 2572 model, 6' wide with two gangs of disks that are adjustable. this disk can with cat I or Cat II. It does a great job and is very heavy duty. Built like a battleship.
I will also add that it is not "easy" to adjust. when i adjust the gangs, it involves a sledge hammer and multiple swings. A quality piece of gear.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for all the responses! I'll try to answer some and the questions and update folks on my progress.
First, there is no rush. Although I personally owned the tiller, if we buy a disc, it will be purchased by the LLC, not me personally. I need to get 4 other owners on board. We just completed the controlled burn of our thinned pines and our hardwood clear-cuts. Our young pines are probably 5 years from thinning. So, our next burn will be 2 or 3 years out. Between my Kasco no-till Versadrill and the small tiller, I can get by without it for spring planting.
Some of you mentioned other equipment. I also have a small rear blade that fits our small Ford 1300 (16hp) tractor. This is also the tractor that the small tiller fits. I also have a 4' rear blade for that tractor and a larger 7' rear blade that I use on my bigger Kioti DK45.
Our soil is heavy clay. The land is rolling with lots of small creeks to cross. The firebreaks run along thin pines, young pines, and hardwoods. I've operated tow-behind JD disc with behind a 65hp 4x4 tractor with a FEL when I did volunteer work at Quantico. There topography is similar to mine. I often got into predicaments transporting the disk on a logging road only to find a tree blown down across the road. Trying to turn around was problematic at best. I know I don't want to go this route.
The brushmaster that one of you suggested is probably more than I can handle. It is 2600 lbs and wants to see a 60 hp tractor. My DK45 has a lift capacity of 2500 lbs and is only 44 hp.
Today I looked at a Woods DM7. It wash heavier duty than the angle iron stuff they had, but still looked a little light to me. It is Cat 1 only and weighs about 900 lbs. It uses 3" square tubes.
I have not seen one in person, but the specs on the DH2572 someone mentioned look interesting. It looks like it weighs between 950 and 1050 lbs. It looks like they use 3x3 tubing for the frame and 3x4 tubing for the gangs. It think it has something like 47 lbs/disc.
I friend of mine bought a tufline TL43. I have not seen the unit, but from the specs it looks like the heaviest duty. It is cat 1 and cat 2. It is heavier at 1479 lbs but not too heavy for my tractor. You can get it with combo spacing front and rear (9" - 7 1/2") which might be a good compromise for me. I think it is closer to 60 lbs/disc.
The pricing of these three looks roughly around $2K, $3K, and $4K respectively. Right now, on paper, the tufline TL43 looks like the best fit.
One more thing that I'd like to hear about (especially from owners of any of these three) is what kind of gang angle changing mechanisms to they have and how easy is it to change gang angle. I would guess I would be changing from aggressive for firebreaks to very non-aggressive for light tillage.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I have a Land Pride 6 foot disc with the tubular frame and adjustable gangs . The model number eludes me at this time. It is built like a tank. I find adjusting the gangs to be a task, but never had to use a sledge hammer. I use if for fire breaks on my controlled burns and other light to medium tasks. I pull it with a 34 HP Kubota diesel 4x4 tractor.
Land Pride will cost more than other brands, but is well worth it in my book.

We use a 6 1/2 wide 300 series Dirt Dog disc harrow for firebreaks and we have a lot of firebreaks. 22" diameter disc. Manufactured about 45 minutes from farm in Commerce, GA. Weighs about 1200 lbs.
My forester uses disc harrows by Brown Manufacturing. Check out their offset harrows on their website. Lots of forestry guys use Brown due to supposedly being indestructible and no issues running over pine stumps left from thinning operations. They are very pricey. $3K plus.
Prolly any harrow with 22" quality disc in the 1200 lb range will do you a good job. If possible, spend the extra to get the mechanically adjustable type. Having to adjust the angle by "elbow grease" can sometimes be a challenge.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9565443
Best 3 pt ever made. Little tough to find parts for, but you can re engineer the bearings if need be. I've made two for mine, and its still smashing rocks.

Yoder, keep in mind the Brushmaster comes in a number sizes. Here is a spec sheet on their models. http://wildlifespeciality.com/img/Brushmaster Specifications.pdf
You mention the TuffLine TL43 and that is actually the same disc I have. It is a good disc and certainly heavy duty but it is not on the same level as that brushmaster. The TL43 is a rugged agricultural disc and the brushmaster is intended for working in the woods.
That being said, on the TL43 to adjust the gang angle you have a pin for the front and rear with pre-drilled holes that adjust the angle. To adjust it you need to pull the pins, lift the disc and slide the gang to the angle you want, put the pin back in and go. You will want to keep a hammer and pair of pliers on the tractor because it often needs a little encouragement. There is a model with a screw crank that adjusts the angle and it is great provided you use it often and keep it greased. To me I like the pins on the one I have better than the crank.

I'm happy with an 82" everything attachments disc that weighs 1250lbs. It was the heaviest I could find. Adjusts easily. It is cat 1 or 2.

Everything attachments...i got mine there..great products

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm slowly narrowing down what I'm looking for. Since I'm planning on a dual use, I'm looking hard at a 9-7 spacing combo with 22" discs.
When I look at weight per disk here is what I get from looking at specs:
Brown BDH-600-1822: 53 lbs $3.2K
DirtDog 300-8: 65 lbs $2.2K
Tufline TL43-971822: 72 lbs $3.5K
LandPrid DH2572: 51 lbs (Didn't see mixed spacing) $3.5K
Everything Attachments ETA-XD-LG-BF-DH-20-22: 62 lbs (Didn't see mixed spacing) ~$2.6K
WildlifeSpeciality: 90-100 lbs (but over $7K and didn't offer mixed spacing)\
Based on this, I think I can knock a few off my list. The Brown and LandPride have significantly less weight than the Tufline for about the same price.
It looks like the Everything Attachments and Dirt Dog are a little lighter than the Tufline but about a thousand less expensive. The Everything Attachments doesn't have smooth discs for one row but the site says "coming soon".
So for now, I think I'm going to focus on the Tufline for the higher end and the Dirt Dog for the lower end unless a new option comes up.
Someone reported that the Tufline gang angles adjust pretty easily with the pins. Can the guy with the Dirt Dog report back on how easily the gang angles adjust?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

$2200 seems like a lot for that disc. Unless you're set on having something new, there are used discs like that on my local (within 2hr drive) craigslist everyday for less than $1000, so there are probably the same on yours. I think we paid $750 for ours and then put about $300 in steel and welding to make it bulletproof. It's 20 years old, 20" pans, and sealed bearings.
The tubes that the discs attach to on that Dirt Dog look very small and the slot they go in doesn't seem very beefy. We found the rotational torque of the disc was causing the tube to wear out that slot in just a year. Also we couldn't get the clamps on those tubes to hold the discs where we wanted them, so we tack welded the tab.
We also found that we never adjust the disc. We thought we could put it on the least aggressive setting for minimal till and all it did was leave small straight cuts in the ground.
IMO it's better to buy used and beef it up, than buy new and end up beefing it up anyways. You could use the savings to buy a seed drill or something!!
As bought for $750:

Initial strengthening. Notice beefing up of all corners and 3pt hitch. Notice the hooks welded on the back to hook up a drag:

New tubes after the original ones wore in just one year of discing. Gang tabs welded. Sleeve welded inside tube where bolt goes through. Hole where tube goes through beefed up:

Interesting idea. I have considered the used market, but it only makes sense if it is local. I have not seen much in the class I'm looking for locally. Most farmers here that are not going no-till have larger tow-behind disks with much larger tractors. I am keeping my eye on the local market but I'm not counting on it.
There is another factor here as well that argues for new. I don't have much in the way of mechanical or welding skills. So, any repair requires transport to a shop and paying their rates for the repair. If we buy this, it will be bought by the LLC not me personally. They will want to have their investment pretty well bounded. If we buy something new and on the heavy-duty side, given our planned use, the purchase price should be the only investment for 10 years.
As for your point for not adjusting the gang-angle, I think that is true for most folks. That is why I'm asking for folks with experience adjusting it for their feed back with adjusting particular models. I have really been minimizing tillage. When I use my tiller now, I lift it so I'm only touching the top inch or so of soil. With a heavy disk, I would assume I would need a pretty small gang angle to have a similar effect of just throwing enough soil on the vegetation for the soil microbes to break it down more quickly.
My other application is preparing firebreaks right before a controlled burn. This is where I want the heavy-duty frame and weight along with an aggressive gang angle. These breaks were made with a dozer, so there are no stumps, but I need to through enough dirt around that fire can cross it. They will likely be covered with pine needles, leaves, and broomsedge bluestem. So, I'm not worried about hitting stumps, but these are going across some terrain and I'm sure will encounter rocks and such from time to time.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Reading this reminded me of a time that I DID have a fire escape several years ago...Yikes!
I had a sufficiently wide fire break that day, but two things combined to bite me that day. In retrospect, it was too windy that day to be burning and that is totally on me...but there was another factor that I thought I would mention here to help others when they are executing a burn.
I happened to place my downwind fire break on the lee side of a sidehill for no other reason than that is where I wanted to have the fire stop. I will always remember lighting the backfire and watching it slowly crawl uphill, into the wind as it should have been...when the fire crested the hill and met the too stiff breeze, the problems started.
There at the top of the small hill the wind whipped the fire and launched multiple "tornadoes of fire" that were then carried by the wind down wind and downhill OVER the fire break. And away it went...
So, the moral of that story is that even a wide fire break may not be sufficient if you place it at the bottom of a hill. Consider also the terrain features when deciding how wide of fire break is needed.

Great point! I do plan to take the controlled burner class. We hired a burn coordinator for the controlled burn we just executed. It seems like the right weather is everything when it comes to getting a good burn without loss of control.
One thing I learned what how much wind is created by fire. We were burning a hardwood clear cut that was a little too early to burn. It was a very calm morning and it was still slightly shaded. We started on the sunny side but were struggling to get the fire going. We ignited a pile of tops in the center and everything changed. That pile created an updraft that created enough wind for the fire to carry to it from all sides of the clear cut.
It was a very interesting phenomenon that I had not seen before. There are lots of things to learn before I try to conduct one on my own, including the effects of terrain.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

All of the Woods stuff I have ever seen has been built heavy duty. I doubt if you would have any problem out of it. I have an old 6' Tuffline disc that I traded a few goats for many years ago. It is heavy enough to do anything we need. It is easy to adjust the cutting angle. You just have to pull the pins and push the gangs until they are where you want them. I have replaced a few bearings and disc blades over the years and the parts are not hard to come by.

Thanks! I was looking at the Woods book tonight. The only problem with Woods is that they have a hole in their line right where I'm looking. The sell 3-pt standard and medium duty discs in the width I need, but their heavy duty models are either too wide or are the tow-behind type.
Thanks for the info on the Tufline. That is what I'm leaning toward recommending to the LLC right now, but I still have time to be educated.
Thanks
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Look at the smallest athens 55, I think they make one under 7'. I have one of the larger 55's. Love it. Its one of a very small number of 3pt disks heavy enough to do the job. Also, get the widest spacing (fewest disks) offered.

Thanks HR,
It looks like this sits in between the Dirt Dog and Turfline in terms of weight per disk. I like the idea of mixed spacing since I plan to use this for fields as well as firebreaks.
How hard is it to adjust the gang angle with the Athens?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Give me 2 more days to get you the info on my disk. I will be there Wednesday. It's exactly what you described what you were looking for in your initial post.

Jack
I dont have any direct experience with a Tuffline so it may be the best option but I have two Browns and absolutely love them. Had a Kingcutter that I kept bending and breaking blades on and weight is a big issue but heavy weight blades are key in my book because I have heavy clay and rocks. I iniitally got the medium width Brown with the 22 inch blades and liked it so much I got the smaller one with 20s for my M5200 Kubota. I want to think the smaller one weighs 1300 lb but would have to look at specs. Very easy to adjust and I got scalloped blades on front and back gangs for extra agressive cut and no comparison in my book to the standards disks like KingCutter, etc. Got my Browns from James River Equipment although I had to do some digging to get one. I use the big one on an 85hp JD and we till up some incredibly rough ground. My habitat consultant said the Brown is better than any disk he has used before so I can highly recommend it. I wanted a Brushmaster as they are really tough but price tag is pretty ridiculous and Brown was a much better value. Wish I had seen a Tuffline in action to compare but thought I would weigh in at least.
TGS

 

[yoderjac]

Mine is a Hardee. Meant to take a picture today but forgot.
http://www.hardeebyevh.com/categories.php?cat_id=67
It's heavy, has an 8 foot cutting width, is easily adjustable, and 3pt.

Thanks Cutman. I took a look at the specs on your link. It looks to be in the same class with the Landpride and Brown. I only saw cat I hookup. Am I looking at the right specs?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

The specs are here, Jack:
http://www.hardeebyevh.com/images/shopcart/items/122_1.pdf
It looks like maybe these aren't quite has heavy duty as you need. Speaking from experience, though, these discs can make darn good firebreaks, and they are small enough to transport through tight spaces.

Thanks. Those are the ones I was looking at.

 

[yoderjac]

I know Woods equipment I top notch but I don't have one of their disc.
What I do have is a Brown and it is built like a tank. Buy once! Cry once! It's expensive and heavy but if you take care of it you will go to your grave before that disc does.

Sorry, been playing in the snow. Pull a pin, adjust to desired angle, replace pin. It's a piece of cake.

Jack if this is for firebreaks you really should consider an offset disk besides a typical disk harrow. They go by several names and have heard them called dozer disks before. They are designed as a primary use tool. I have used one of these that cut into sod pasture with consistent results.

Farm auction season is coming up. You can buy equipment for pennies on the dollar.

Smallplot,
Can you show us a pic of what you're calling a "dozer " disc? I can't think of what you're describing??
Vhorn4

I know this is a full sized disk but it is a great picture showing an offset disk

IMO, if I were to ever buy another disc, I would look for the heaviest one that my tractor can handle. Weight really matters and could be the difference in having to go over unbroken ground twice instead of three or four passes. I have a Hardee and it is pretty good but my friend has a really old disc that my tractor can barely lift and the difference between the two is significant. The heavier one cuts up new ground like a knife going through hot butter whereas mine would take multiple passes in order to achieve the same result. Weight matters.

Thanks Smallplot. I understand by seeing the pic. I've heard them call Hardland as well, but I'm not sure what the "official" name is for them.
Thank you.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack if this is for firebreaks you really should consider an offset disk besides a typical disk harrow. They go by several names and have heard them called dozer disks before. They are designed as a primary use tool. I have used one of these that cut into sod pasture with consistent results.

Thanks! I'm looking for something that is heavy duty enough and aggressive enough for firebreak maintenance, but that also can be adjusted for minimal tillage. I'm thinking a heavy (per disk weight) unit with mixed front and rear spacing and mixed scalloped and smooth might be the sweet spot. I'm concerned that an offset disk may be too single purpose.
Thanks,
jack

 

[yoderjac]

I have not taken the time to read every post so apologies if my comment is a repeat. I have an off set disk similar to the one in the picture. One feature worth mentioning is that you can pick the wheels up completely for deep tillage as needed by a firebreak.
You can also let the wheels roll keeping the discs up thus less contact with the ground for light tillage. Pick the tractor speed up with the discs held high by the wheels and does a good job fluffing top layer of soil. You can go as deep or shallow as you want.
I also have a standard disc but it never gets used anymore simply because of the versatility of the off set.

Baker,
Thanks, but I'm looking for something that is 3pt. There are some places on firebreaks in my terrain where I would not want to try to turn around a towbehind.
Thanks,
jack

 

[Bill]

Not to put a damper on the disc idea but there are other ways to make fire breaks in some situations. If I wanted to use my disc I might have to use a chainsaw to get to it.

I don't have the guts to throw a match on my native grass fields but I did set one up with edible fire breaks in case I ever work up the nerve.

Here is an aerial shot of clover fire breaks and one on the ground.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

You are absolutely right. We do the same in our fields. The firebreaks I'm talking about are in planted pines. There is not enough light for clover and needles and grasses eventually build up. The idea is once established by a dozer, we will have individual management units that we can disk right before burning a section.

 

[yoderjac]

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm resurrecting it. Things have changed a bit for us. Originally, I was looking for a disc primarily for firebreaks and for my Kioti DK45. At the time, my partner's tractor was a 16 hp Ford that could not really contribute to discing. He has since upgraded to a JD 790 4x4 with FEL. His rear lift capacity is 815 lbs. I also used to have a 6' tiller that died. I would lift it for min-tll operations. It died a few years ago. I still have a 4 JD tiller that I used to use on my partners little ford that died, but it is too small for my Kioti. I could probably use it with his JD, but even with min-till, tiller tines wear pretty quickly, so I'm considering using a disc for this min-till. I borrowed a small angle iron frame disc to test out the concept and it seemed to work for min-till.

We have two options:
1) Continue on the previous path and buy one of the 60+ lbs per blade discs discussed previously in this thread and just do the frebreaks with the Kioti and use the tiller on the JD 790.
2) Buy a disc in the 40 lb per blade range near the limit of what the JD can handle. This would let us use this disc with either tractor for either task. It probably would not be quite as effective for heavier tillage on firebreaks but it would probably suffice.

Right now we are leaning toward option 2. If we go this route, one important factor is ease of adjustment of disc angle since we will want it very aggressive for firebreaks, and not very aggressive for min-till food plots.

My leading candidate is the Everything Attachments ETA-XD-BF-DH-20-20. It is fairly heavy duty tubular design with welded end caps and a screw type infinite angle adjustment rather than pins. It comes in at 810 lbs which looks like it is near the capacity of what the JD 790 can lift. The JD may not have enough HP to pull it at the most aggressive setting but we should be able to adjust it so the JD can get as much as it can handle.


- Has anyone used Everything Attachments tubular type (not angle iron) discs? If so, what is your experience with them.
- Has anyone use another disc in this class that has easy angle adjustments?

Thanks,

Jack
-

 

[rocksnstumps]

No input to the Everything Attachments side but would be wary of a disc that weighs close to max spec of friends tractor 3 pt. Those specs are normally at 24" from back and a heavy weight box or box blade is probably ok but things like rotary cutters and 3 pt discs are going to hang off the back a lot more. With center of gravity so far back, might be a no go even if the weight numbers "appear" ok. Might need to lighten up for that tractor and frankly anything lighter is probably marginal for performance.

 

[SwampCat]

No input to the Everything Attachments side but would be wary of a disc that weighs close to max spec of friends tractor 3 pt. Those specs are normally at 24" from back and a heavy weight box or box blade is probably ok but things like rotary cutters and 3 pt discs are going to hang off the back a lot more. With center of gravity so far back, might be a no go even if the weight numbers "appear" ok. Might need to lighten up for that tractor and frankly anything lighter is probably marginal for performance.

I agree with this. I have a jd 790 and that is going to be a load. I would start with a lighter disk and add weight as needed.