Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Has he posted anything yet ??
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dipper
Guest
The guy wouldn't give me 5 minutes, claiming he was so busy. The call bs!
buckvelvet
5 year old buck +
It's not like created an account called Steve cummins. Just sayin what I saw.
Jordan Selsor
5 year old buck +
I've never had any business dealings with cummins but I bet OL dipper is pretty good at pushing buttons if he sets his mind to it hahahaha
Just a speculation with the "testing the backbone" comment ;)
Just a speculation with the "testing the backbone" comment ;)
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dipper
Guest
Yup I have expectations for products I pay for. To me, nothing impresses me more than a company that backs the products they sell. I didn't see that with cummins. He didn't back his product, and I let him know that was disappointing.
Steve Cummins
Buck Fawn
Hi Everybody, This is my first time on a discussion forum. The prevailing wisdom in the new world of social media and instant discussions is for a business to not respond. I guess I am breaking this bit of wisdom. Rather than get into a he said, she said debate with Dipper, I will try to address a few horticultural issues instead.
Rootstocks..... MM111, M.7, MM.106, M.9, M.26.... These are all clonal rootstocks and are grown in stool beds. One of the traits that these rootstocks exhibit is the ability to send out roots and the ability to sucker. Suckering and root initiation are really nice for the rootstock grower, but they are not desirable in the orchard. Burr knots or root initials can really be a problem on these rootstocks http://www.extension.org/pages/60605/burr-knots-on-apple-trees#.VXzR6edF9sU The Geneva rootstocks are great in the orchard for many reasons, but they are not friendly to either nurseries or rootstock propagators. One of the traits that Dad (Dr. Jim Cummins) selected against were burr knots. Burr knots are super for easy and heavy rooting, hence a beautiful looking stock such as MM.111 for the grafter. Geneva rootstocks do not have big heavy root systems as a general rule. Because they do not have heavy root systems, they require extra care at the time of grafting and especially at the time of planting. OHF pears are produced via hardwood cuttings. A cutting is taken from an established mother plant and is then rooted. The rooted cutting is then grown for a full season. OHF pears have a very coarse root system (not many small fibrous roots that look so nice on MM.111) Like the Geneva rootstocks, pears must also be given extra care at the time of planting and subsequent weeks. Essentially, different rootstocks are different.
Replacement policy..... When there is an issue we like to look at each case individually. Unlike many of the large nurseries, we don't simply send a replacement tree. Unless there are multiple reports of a variety/rootstock combination having trouble, we ask that the customer assume some of the risk of survival. If we feel that the customer is probably at fault, we ask that they assume the cost of shipping, and we will assume the cost of replacement. Planting a tree is like following a souffle recipe. Not performing one step properly can cause the souffle to fail.
Customers and Service.... I doubt if there is a nursery in the country that gives more service than Cummins Nursery. When you call or write to us, you are not communicating with a secretary, you are communicating with Alan, Tino, Dr. Cummins or myself.... a lot of experience. Literally, tens of thousands of emails and phone calls each year and we grow the trees! Most of our customers purchase less than 100 trees at a time so the "little grower" is our bread and butter. We think that our customers have the coolest hobby that there is and this is why we give as much personal touch as we can.
Dipper, I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience with us. You lost 4 OHF rootstocks out of 10. You wanted a refund. I stated that we would ship you 4 replacements next spring if you would cover the cost of the shipping (or throw them in with an additional order). I did go out and check the OHF rootstocks in our nursery that we planted a month ago. Your stock and our stock were all from the same source that we bought in from the west coast. Out of 1500 (ungrafted stock or liners) planted we lost 3 so I stand by my statement that something on your end was probably to blame. Pear stock are not the easiest to transplant and when you throw a graft onto the plant that is just one more step for failure. On the bright side you did get 6 out of 10 to survive and that really is pretty good for a pear graft. I hope we can shake virtual hands and move on.
Thanks for your time everyone.
Steve Cummins
Rootstocks..... MM111, M.7, MM.106, M.9, M.26.... These are all clonal rootstocks and are grown in stool beds. One of the traits that these rootstocks exhibit is the ability to send out roots and the ability to sucker. Suckering and root initiation are really nice for the rootstock grower, but they are not desirable in the orchard. Burr knots or root initials can really be a problem on these rootstocks http://www.extension.org/pages/60605/burr-knots-on-apple-trees#.VXzR6edF9sU The Geneva rootstocks are great in the orchard for many reasons, but they are not friendly to either nurseries or rootstock propagators. One of the traits that Dad (Dr. Jim Cummins) selected against were burr knots. Burr knots are super for easy and heavy rooting, hence a beautiful looking stock such as MM.111 for the grafter. Geneva rootstocks do not have big heavy root systems as a general rule. Because they do not have heavy root systems, they require extra care at the time of grafting and especially at the time of planting. OHF pears are produced via hardwood cuttings. A cutting is taken from an established mother plant and is then rooted. The rooted cutting is then grown for a full season. OHF pears have a very coarse root system (not many small fibrous roots that look so nice on MM.111) Like the Geneva rootstocks, pears must also be given extra care at the time of planting and subsequent weeks. Essentially, different rootstocks are different.
Replacement policy..... When there is an issue we like to look at each case individually. Unlike many of the large nurseries, we don't simply send a replacement tree. Unless there are multiple reports of a variety/rootstock combination having trouble, we ask that the customer assume some of the risk of survival. If we feel that the customer is probably at fault, we ask that they assume the cost of shipping, and we will assume the cost of replacement. Planting a tree is like following a souffle recipe. Not performing one step properly can cause the souffle to fail.
Customers and Service.... I doubt if there is a nursery in the country that gives more service than Cummins Nursery. When you call or write to us, you are not communicating with a secretary, you are communicating with Alan, Tino, Dr. Cummins or myself.... a lot of experience. Literally, tens of thousands of emails and phone calls each year and we grow the trees! Most of our customers purchase less than 100 trees at a time so the "little grower" is our bread and butter. We think that our customers have the coolest hobby that there is and this is why we give as much personal touch as we can.
Dipper, I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience with us. You lost 4 OHF rootstocks out of 10. You wanted a refund. I stated that we would ship you 4 replacements next spring if you would cover the cost of the shipping (or throw them in with an additional order). I did go out and check the OHF rootstocks in our nursery that we planted a month ago. Your stock and our stock were all from the same source that we bought in from the west coast. Out of 1500 (ungrafted stock or liners) planted we lost 3 so I stand by my statement that something on your end was probably to blame. Pear stock are not the easiest to transplant and when you throw a graft onto the plant that is just one more step for failure. On the bright side you did get 6 out of 10 to survive and that really is pretty good for a pear graft. I hope we can shake virtual hands and move on.
Thanks for your time everyone.
Steve Cummins
sandbur
5 year old buck +
aerospacefarmer
5 year old buck +
Bravo Steve. Well said. I continue to be a loyal customer of Cummins Nursery. You and your staff have never been anything but amazing and I have learned so much from you and your crew. I would never have come this far in my endeavor without Cummins so please stay in the forum and continue to share your knowledge with this great group of people in this forum. In regards to the issue with rootstocks and trees as they say poop happens and as non professionals we make mistakes and we can't blame all of our mistakes on the product. You have always delivered a quality product and I commend you as a fair and honest merchant and one smart Apple guy ......maybe I should give some credit to your dad lol
Paul Wengen
Paul Wengen
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I've never ordered trees from Cummins in the past, but I am impressed that Steve responded. To me that replacement offer seems fair. I went against common sense and bought some trees from a big box store that had a 100% guarantee and I had an 80% failure rate. All the trees planted from SLN at the same time with the same care survived. My time and gas money needed to pick up the replacements cost more than the shipping cost, so I think that is a fair compromise. Now that SLN went out of business, maybe I'll try some trees on B118 rootstock from Cummins next spring.
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dipper
Guest
a lot different response than our phone conversation. Glad to see you respected my forum comment. This was a lot more than "4 rootstock".
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dipper
Guest
Your average grower is still best off ordering locally.
I peeled back some bark with my fingernail, 2 still have green bark. I think they'll be toast if they don't throw out a bud. I've yet to loose one of your apple rootstock, but I'm definitely done with pears for the time being, anyway. I've got over 25 pears from this year's grafting, and some awesome varieties. That's more pear trees I'll ever need, and than some.
I peeled back some bark with my fingernail, 2 still have green bark. I think they'll be toast if they don't throw out a bud. I've yet to loose one of your apple rootstock, but I'm definitely done with pears for the time being, anyway. I've got over 25 pears from this year's grafting, and some awesome varieties. That's more pear trees I'll ever need, and than some.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Luckily Cummins is close enough to me that they are local. Otherwise I would have ordered from one of the other recommended nurseries and had shipped to me. I do not know of any other local nursery that could provide what I wanted.
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dipper
Guest
I'm gonna start propagating my own.
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dipper
Guest
What do they call it stooling, I'm filled up with pears, so only apples from here on out
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Thanks to Steve Cummins for jumping in on this forum. I've always had great service, technical info, planting info, etc. from Cummins Nursery. I've spoken to the Steve, Alan, &Tino on the phone and by e-mail and all were very professional and helpful. I'll be placing an order for this coming spring again. I hope Steve feels free to comment on here with any breaking news on the fruit tree front, like any new DR varieties or new releases available to the public !!
For Ben Wi/Mn - I heard SLN is going to open up with new owners in a year or 2. FYI.
For Ben Wi/Mn - I heard SLN is going to open up with new owners in a year or 2. FYI.
Or even just a to inform us about varieties that we have questions on. As noted earlier, he's a wealth of information.
