Couple pics at my place

[sandbur]

That'd be your ph at the depth you took soil samples....how about at 5'+?

Do you mean 5 inches or feet?

Does pH need to be adjusted for apple trees for their total root reach as far as depth?
Do crab apples tolerate a lower pH?

 

[foggy]

Do you mean 5 inches or feet?

Does pH need to be adjusted for apple trees for their total root reach as far as depth?
Do crab apples tolerate a lower pH?

Ooooooooooh. DUH! OK. NOW I get your point. It's all low PH sand at feet deep. Although.....the best apples are on the edge of a swamp.

 

[wiscwhip]

I don't know about up in your location, but the sand at our old place in central WI tested in the low 4's for ph at 4' of depth.

 

[sandbur]

^^^pretty common in light, sandy soils...especially where jackpines grow/grew natively. Hence the need for heavy, annual applications of pell lime...at least when trying to grow fruit trees.

That's why I like the idea of augering down and applying pel lime. However, I imagine very small areas near the hole have a very high pH.

Ed Spin used to have some information in his books on how far surface applied pel lime would travel per year.

 

[sandbur]

I'm just speculating here, but.....
On droughty soils, could wet years cause trees to outgrow their root systems. Then you hit a dry period and the tree has larger amounts of stress? Or should one turn to rootstock that are used in the prairie areas to counter act this?

What rootstocks are used in the Dakotas?

 

[foggy]

Don't many areas in the Dakotas have high native ph? I thought so for some reason. No idea what the soil composition(s) are that way. Big difference from dry, loamy, high ph soil to dry, sandy, low ph soil.

Ive seen some alkaline rimmed water holes out west. You may be right about high PH's.

 

[sandbur]

Don't many areas in the Dakotas have high native ph? I thought so for some reason. No idea what the soil composition(s) are that way. Big difference from dry, loamy, high ph soil to dry, sandy, low ph soil.

Agreed.

I was thinking of a rootstock that might tolerate the wet/dry cycles better-like you mention in post 35.
Does B118 have a long history?

 

[MoLandOwner]

I have heard MM111 rootstock is one that is very hardy. I know nothing about rootstock, most seem to be of smaller stature trees. Is there one overall MN rootstock that will work in all soil types?

 

[sandbur]

John-Baileys must have a pretty good rootstock in their standard sized trees. I'm not sure what it is, but I think they sell throughout the state and probably also Sconny. A couple of people have seen dolgo on a few of their labels, if my memory is correct.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Now you guys have me thinking I need to add more lime to my orchard in Rusk County. I never really thought about the pH at lower depths, but it makes sense. I have a bunch of ag lime, so I might have to take a few buckets with me every time I go up there. I know surface spreaded ag lime will take a long time to work its way through the soil, but I guess it can't hurt.

And for John's question about rootstock, I will start off by saying I'm no expert, but I really like what I've read about the antakova (spelling) rootstock from St. Lawrence Nursery. They're a Russian standard sized rootstock, so they're supposed to be cold hardy and grow a full sized tree. They take longer to produce fruit, but I like the idea of planting an orchard only once in a lifetime. I had a few die in Rusk County WI this spring, but I think that was from SW injury last winter and isn't related to rootstock selection. I'll be painting the trunks annually from now on to reduce the likelihood of that happening again. I've had 100% survival so far from about 15 or so of these trees that I planted in SE MN.