Cost Effective forb Species

[DRG3]

Would you folks please share some examples of forb species that I could broadcast in with a NWSG mix, that are not nescisarily pollinators?
What I am finding around here is that some of the local seed providers pre-mix for CRP plantings and pollinator plantings that folks do cost share on. That's great except that for me, the problem is, I don't cost share. It seems forb/pollinator species like false sunflower, Bundleflower, Coneflower and Black eyed susan are pricey.

I don't necessarily need pollinator species, but I would like a strong forb component in my NWSG planting and hopefully at a lower cost than "pollinator forbs"

Any species recommendations, along with seeding rates in a NWSG mix would be much appreciated. Also, if it matters, I am wanting to key in more on Turkey than Deer for this particular case.

 

[Telemark]

You might try a few taller varieties of clover. Maybe ragweed? I struggle to get anything other than grass to grow in a stand of grass.

 

[DRG3]

You might try a few taller varieties of clover. Maybe ragweed? I struggle to get anything other than grass to grow in a stand of grass.

I hadn't even thought of ragweed. Deer seem to browse that well around here, and it seems to grow well naturally.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Ragweed for sure. Price is not bad for the seed and you don't need a lot of it to get it established and it is a prolific seed producer. I just ordered some to add to my mix. A small percentage of alfalfa would be good and its relatively inexpensive for the non GMO varieties.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Chicory is an awesome forb that I find in early successional growth. It can definitely come up and compete with other grasses, as I find it as a "weed" in tall fescue stands all the time.

I love the idea of this thread so I will follow it closely. I am converting several cool-season pastures to NWSG + forbs and am definitely interested in what others have to say. I have been working NRCS to plan out some of these conversions. Like you, I am trying to see what I can get by with without having to plant some of the more expensive forbs.

 

[bigboreblr]

Burnet is becoming more popular as a food plot forb. Crabgrass. Lupine. Plantain. Vetches. Hemp might reseed too.

 

[BenAllgood]

What I found doing a pollinator planting, was getting enough NWSG wasn't the problem. I have too much at the expense of not as many forbs as I wanted. And, I planted a very low rate of NWSG. If doing it over, I would go even lighter on the grasses. You may not have to introduce any extra forbs. There may be some there ready to pop up if you can lower the rate of grasses in the mix.

 

[SD51555]

Be sure to look at how many seeds you get per pound. They may look expensive, but a lot of them you don't need more than an ounce or two per acre to have a place in the blend. Black eyed susan is expensive by the pound, but a pound will get you 1.5 million seeds. That is one I'd include if you're going to try. That's been the most successful wildflower I've planted on my place if you don't count chicory.

You can get ragweed at Roundstone Nursery for $12/lb. I've planted it and will continue to plant it whenever I start a new plot. At $12/lb you only get 55,000 seeds/lb.

Willowherb seed is $400/lb. That is bananas. It's also $25/oz and an ounce, and an ounce will get you 375,000 seeds.

So, 375,000 ragweed seeds would cost you $81. 375,000 willowherb seeds will cost you $25.

In reality, assuming equal germination and success rates, $12 ragweed is 3x more expensive than $400 willowherb.

 

[DRG3]

Does anyone know what the seeding rate would be for rageeed going into a nwsg mix? This is fantastic. Thanks to all for the great information.

 

[buckdeer1]

American meadows had alot better seed than a cheaper place i tried.I will say I don't think forbs would last in my switch or better ground where the big blue is and would get choked or flooded out.One of the reasons I got out of the CRP renewal after they told me I had to keep forbs.I may lightly disc some of my NWSG after I burn to see what pops up

 

[somich]

I can't imagine anyone would want ragweed on their property.

It's burrs stick to everything. My WPG and 2 GWP would have green sweaters after being out on our property.

If anyone in your area has allergies, they will hate to have you introduce it to your area.

We have what some will call invasives on our property, multiflora rose and autumn olive. The ragweed is a tremendously more invasive plant with no additional use.

After 25 years I can't make a dent in ridding my property of this crappy plant.

Not trying to be a total negative on ragweed. If you have no forbs or food on your property, then ragweed would, still not be an option I would take. There are a tremendous amount of better forbs.

 

[SD51555]

Does anyone know what the seeding rate would be for rageeed going into a nwsg mix? This is fantastic. Thanks to all for the great information.

Conservative approach: Figure on 10% of a full rate per acre or 20,000 seeds per acre.

My approach: Go hot with the wild cards and let nature figure it out on the likelihood that some/most species won't take very well. If 4 out of 5 will fail to establish, you want enough of #5 to fill the gap. Don't be afraid to try either. You can get a good dose per acre with darn near anything for $10, and that risk is too low to not try.

I went hot with ragweed, black eyed susan, and purple coneflower in my blends the past few years. I got no purple coneflower, very little ragweed (like 1 every ten feet) and lots of black eyed susan.

You might also throw the sweet clovers in your blend. Those are also really cheap per acre.

 

[Turkey Creek]

What I found doing a pollinator planting, was getting enough NWSG wasn't the problem. I have too much at the expense of not as many forbs as I wanted. And, I planted a very low rate of NWSG. If doing it over, I would go even lighter on the grasses. You may not have to introduce any extra forbs. There may be some there ready to pop up if you can lower the rate of grasses in the mix.

That is exactly what I am going to experiment with this year. I am starting to renovate my cool season, grass hay ground this year. I am not in a CRP contract so I can do as I see fit. I am planting one pass with the no-till drill that is heavy on the forbs with a slight NWSG percentage. Next section over/ next drill pass will be a Pheasants Forever forb only mix, which I am going to spike by adding ragweed and burnett. Alternating passes with the drill one with the NWSG component and one without. I already told my private lands biologist who I am getting the seed with the NWSG in that I am going to experiment with lightly disking on a rotation of some type, burning and spraying Clethodim in patches or possibly late growing season burns to keep the grass component on the light side.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Conservative approach: Figure on 10% of a full rate per acre or 20,000 seeds per acre.

My approach: Go hot with the wild cards and let nature figure it out on the likelihood that some/most species won't take very well. If 4 out of 5 will fail to establish, you want enough of #5 to fill the gap. Don't be afraid to try either. You can get a good dose per acre with darn near anything for $10, and that risk is too low to not try.

I went hot with ragweed, black eyed susan, and purple coneflower in my blends the past few years. I got no purple coneflower, very little ragweed (like 1 every ten feet) and lots of black eyed susan.

You might also throw the sweet clovers in your blend. Those are also really cheap per acre.

I forgot about sweet clovers, probably a good addition. They get tall around here though so if you are wanting it more open for poults and chicks I would probably go light on the seed rate.

 

[bigboreblr]

A mature ragweed easily will cover 12 square feet. About 4ft diameter. 3600 seed that germinate will be an acre. A season of ragweed can look like a 5 year old Christmas tree.

 

[Native Hunter]

Improved (tall) varieties of Partridge Pea. It is moderately browsed and competes aggressively with grasses. Check with Roundstone Native Seeds.

You quail people will love it too. Few other plants are any better for quail.

 

[Gravel Road]

I can't imagine anyone would want ragweed on their property.

It's burrs stick to everything. My WPG and 2 GWP would have green sweaters after being out on our property.

If anyone in your area has allergies, they will hate to have you introduce it to your area.

We have what some will call invasives on our property, multiflora rose and autumn olive. The ragweed is a tremendously more invasive plant with no additional use.

After 25 years I can't make a dent in ridding my property of this crappy plant.

Not trying to be a total negative on ragweed. If you have no forbs or food on your property, then ragweed would, still not be an option I would take. There are a tremendous amount of better forbs.

Are you talking ragweed or giant ragweed? Giant ragweed is really what you want. Yes, it sucks if you have allergies, but the deer hammer it and quail love the seeds. Ragweed doesn't have burrs as far as I know.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Maybe be worth your time to call or email Ernst seed. They're definitely have suggestions

 

[somich]

Are you talking ragweed or giant ragweed? Giant ragweed is really what you want. Yes, it sucks if you have allergies, but the deer hammer it and quail love the seeds. Ragweed doesn't have burrs as far as I know.

We have lots of common ragweed at my place. This is not my pic its from interwebs.

All those little burrs cover my dog when we're out

 

[Catscratch]

I've never noticed ragweed seeds sticking to stuff. I wonder if sticktights or beggars lice might be the culprit?