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Tree Spud said:
Not my bar, I don't make the rules. I just want it to stay open so we can engage in the conversation.

To your point, you are telling me I cannot have an opinion and share it ... suppression is when only one view is allowed in a conversation.
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I didn’t say you couldn’t have your opinion or share it. My comment was because you want to limit someone else. I think anyone should be able to say their view here without someone whining about a statement involving politics.

If you want this place to be more like Facebook/Twitter censorship instead of free speech, you certainly have the right to be wrong.
 
Masks have repeatedly been shown to be utterly useless against everything. If they work so well then how come after the illegal mandates did numbers across the country explode?
Besides, that FACT what are you guarding against anyway? Getting a cold? Its totally ridiculous that anyone would be affraid of this made up pan demic.
98+% survival rate? Yeah terrifying...
And yes it does make you sheep imho. The difference is I am not infringing on your rights to wear one. If a kleenex over your mouth makes you secure, bu all means go for it. On the other hand because you are affraid of a cold your telling me I must wear a kleenex to protect you..... be a grown up, protect yourself. Stsy home if your affraid. Me? Im living my life along with the millions of others who have survived this terrifying sniffle episode.
And lastly the fact that you and others lile you dont get is the most terrifying thing about your whole above statement.
 
I think knerhke is fauchi, undercover to make the masses of us unwashed finally "see the light".... lol
Just kidding with you k,
 
That and virtue signaling. A way for the wearer's to "show" everyone that tbey care so much.
The way this "pandemic " and government has made this country weak and the speed at which it was accomplished is what is truly terrifying.
 
Knehrke said:
Bill, as usual I have no idea where you get your facts - if you support the science, then you know that masks, when worn properly, reduce transmission rate, viral load, and infectivity. Overall, they slow the spread of the disease. The studies are numerous and convincing. Surgeons, nurses, and interns all wear masks in the operating room for a reason.

It's the same as washing your hands. Not perfect, but better than nothing. I truly don't get it. Why is this such a thing? Both science and common sense support wearing masks, and simply respect says that you don one when you're around somebody who's concerned about the virus.

Just because a bandana or tee shirt pulled up is useless but legal some places doesn't mean that all masks are useless.

And wearing a mask doesn't make you a sheep, or weak, or the government's lapdog. Honestly.

Okay, that's two minutes of my life I will never get back lol.
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Utter non-sense. The guru, top scientific person on the planet refuted this in the first months of the pandemic. Name was Fauci. If mask wearing was as you say, backed by science all along exactly where did Fauci go to school? Where was all this great scientific proof? Apparently Fauci wasn’t aware that masks were the answer until about May. Good to know we have such well informed people showing the science. LOL. Oh wait, I guess Fauci learned about effectiveness of masks after a few months of the pandemic His credibility is shot. He is on record countless times saying people shouldn’t be walking around with masks on. Virus 101. He must have missed the class.
 
Now we should wear 2, wait 3, maybe 4, maybe more, oh wait dont wear one, nope wear 2... lol what a joke.

But make sure you wash your hands... its like a nationwide kindergarten
 
Knehrke said:
Bill, as usual I have no idea where you get your facts - if you support the science, then you know that masks, when worn properly, reduce transmission rate, viral load, and infectivity. Overall, they slow the spread of the disease. The studies are numerous and convincing. Surgeons, nurses, and interns all wear masks in the operating room for a reason.

It's the same as washing your hands. Not perfect, but better than nothing. I truly don't get it. Why is this such a thing? Both science and common sense support wearing masks, and simply respect says that you don one when you're around somebody who's concerned about the virus.

Just because a bandana or tee shirt pulled up is useless but legal some places doesn't mean that all masks are useless.

And wearing a mask doesn't make you a sheep, or weak, or the government's lapdog. Honestly.

Okay, that's two minutes of my life I will never get back lol.
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Honest question...if it does in fact reduce viral load for those on the other side of the mask, would it increase viral load of those on the "inside" of the mask? I.e. with the possibility of making them sicker?
 
hesseu said:
Honest question...if it does in fact reduce viral load for those on the other side of the mask, would it increase viral load of those on the "inside" of the mask? I.e. with the possibility of making them sicker?
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Great question!! Generally, the viral load in your nasal passages far exceeds anything you would breathe into your mask, but I suspect that sneezing wouldn't be advised...for more reasons than one lol!

For the record, I HATE masks. With a passion. Within a couple minutes of donning those blue surgical masks, my sinuses rebel. But as I watch the numbers in our ICU exceed 95% capacity and see folks dying who were otherwise healthy, I prefer a runny nose to infecting somebody else.

Funny story about masks. Two weeks ago, I was shooting 3D with a buddy of mine who had a heart transplant three years ago, and we've been shooting mornings to avoid the crowd. Out of respect I also wear a mask on the range. At the third station, I was complaining to him about how the mask took at least twenty points off my score, and after I shot, he said, "wow, that was loud, where'd the arrow go?!?".

I told him that it was right in my quiver, where it had been since I started complaining about masks.

Yep, I blew up my Elite. It was ten years old and didn't owe me anything, but still...

And so now I have a new bow, Tommy has an embarrassing story about me, and the shop owner is richer by far. But you know, with all of that, I still wear a mask around him. Because it would suck to survive heart failure at age 48 only to die at 53 from COVID.
 
Well k, there's one thing we have in common, elite bows! Love mine!
 
10 years old, send it in they will probably replace it.
 
Knehrke said:
Great question!! Generally, the viral load in your nasal passages far exceeds anything you would breathe into your mask, but I suspect that sneezing wouldn't be advised...for more reasons than one lol!

For the record, I HATE masks. With a passion. Within a couple minutes of donning those blue surgical masks, my sinuses rebel. But as I watch the numbers in our ICU exceed 95% capacity and see folks dying who were otherwise healthy, I prefer a runny nose to infecting somebody else.

Funny story about masks. Two weeks ago, I was shooting 3D with a buddy of mine who had a heart transplant three years ago, and we've been shooting mornings to avoid the crowd. Out of respect I also wear a mask on the range. At the third station, I was complaining to him about how the mask took at least twenty points off my score, and after I shot, he said, "wow, that was loud, where'd the arrow go?!?".

I told him that it was right in my quiver, where it had been since I started complaining about masks.

Yep, I blew up my Elite. It was ten years old and didn't owe me anything, but still...

And so now I have a new bow, Tommy has an embarrassing story about me, and the shop owner is richer by far. But you know, with all of that, I still wear a mask around him. Because it would suck to survive heart failure at age 48 only to die at 53 from COVID.
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What was normal ICU capacity utilization in winter before rona?
 
Here is the current chart for daily cases in Wisconsin. We've been under a mask mandate since August. How does the use of masks since then have any correlation at all with the number of daily cases?

Stacked_cases_by_day.PNG
 
we were made by god to exhale our used breath to get ot away from your body and more importantly your mouth and nose. Rebreathing your exhaled air is horrible for you over a long term basis.
In my profession we have had extensive training in the use and care of respirators and masks. Before this whole fakedemic osha would tell you a n95 mask is completely useless for anything other than keeping rocks from breaking your teeth. They do not block even nuisance dust. Now, if an n95 doesnt block dust how in gods name can it possibly block a virus? Answer , it cant, doesnt, and wont. I know i know, the mask is stopping your spit, maybe. But it does not stop the virus from going through.
But for sure, a lightweight t shirt is a life saver... lol
 
This is all very entertaining and enlightening. Kinda' like a prize fight! Each side bashing the other. I suspect most of you have firmly entrenched opinions. You might think they are facts but you probably make them so as to support some pre-ordained position. You don't like to be told what to do. I get it. Me either, unless the 'telling' is well founded. Well, look, we are in the middle of a great big experiment. There's not a lot of hard fact available and maybe not even after its over - by the Grace of God.

We are learning as we go. All we have to fight any battle is ingenuity, information from the past, and what we learned yesterday. So, today, we need to mix it all together to figure out where to go. Masks. At first, as I understand it, historic evidence from other virus outbreaks suggested transmission wasn't by aerosol. New day, more information. Well, it seems like we've discovered it is. Hence, the mask. Does the mask help? Who knew. Who knows. It's a small price. I'll pay it to protect my family and my friends. It may not be helpful, but it really doesn't cost me anything. Politics has nothing to do with my decision. I understand the scientific uncertainty.

I am a scientist. I believe in the process. That doesn't make all science good. But, there's a lot of potential good comes from it. Notice I have not inserted any political party into it. I think they all are bastards. I read almost everyday. My mother said I should learn to read - and I'm glad she did. My father said I should learn to reason. And I did. So, I practice what they wisely taught me -the same things I taught my two sons.

What I have learned is that I have an open mind about the vaccines. I think, on the surface the two available are likely wonderful - but you go first.

What I read today might validate those of you against wearing mask and not for political reasons. Come on guys, think for yourself. But, wearing a mask costs nothing.
So, here's just ONE study. It seems well done, but it's just ONE piece of evidence - just one. Let's not jump to conclusions. It's just one piece of evidence.

It's a reputable source. That's important. It's just one source though. If you're like most people and it supports your position you'll parade it around like it was the Holy Gospel. Let's keep it in perspective.

I hit the edit button because I want to add to it. I ended by fighting for lives - as in staying alive. But, here's the think - if you get COVID, and survive you might come out the other side fully intact...but maybe not. We don't know. No scientist will give you that certainty. Nobody know....

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30293-4/fulltext

The point is masks seem to work, but they are not the goose that laid the golden egg. It appears they can be part of the effort to reduce the viral load - but not all of it.
Take the politics out of it and consider your impact on family and friends. If your the least bit considerate, you'll at least stop and think about this for a moment. Stop fighting politics and fight for you life and the lives of others close to you.
 
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I respect that position, well stated.
Thing is i dont need studies, I've been trained with and work with respirators and masks for 20 plus years.
A paper mask filters little or nothing, a t shirt is completely useless.
Facts are facts, if you can smell things through a mask its doing nothing, if your glasses fog when you wear a mask its doing nothing.
The masks are nothing more than a power move by the government and virtue signaling by most of the public i.e. "look at me and how much i care and you obviously dont".
At the end of the day if and its a big if there really was anything to worry about with this virus i might worry enough to wear one just because. As it is, the realastic numbers dont lie. Corona as a virus is about as damgerous as corona the beer.
 
Bill Loser said:
I respect that position, well stated.
Thing is i dont need studies, I've been trained with and work with respirators and masks for 20 plus years.
A paper mask filters little or nothing, a t shirt is completely useless.
Facts are facts, if you can smell things through a mask its doing nothing, if your glasses fog when you wear a mask its doing nothing.
The masks are nothing more than a power move by the government and virtue signaling by most of the public i.e. "look at me and how much i care and you obviously dont".
At the end of the day if and its a big if there really was anything to worry about with this virus i might worry enough to wear one just because. As it is, the realastic numbers dont lie. Corona as a virus is about as damgerous as corona the beer.
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The wearing of the mask costs me nothing.
 
Didnt say it did. Not wearing one saves me my sanity.

Hitting on a post above from k, if the masks work so well how come the hospital is nearly full?
 
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