clover over rated?

[JoshAnderson]

trying to answer all questions in one post.. my PH is around 7.5, i have exclusion cages and no difference i mow the clover as soon as it starts blooming so there is always fresh growth coming and most of my clover plots are actually in my more remote plots i do have some in a bigger field and id see deer tracks all over the field but no browse in the clover. this year i planted 4 acres of soybeans and clover bordering it and the soybeans hammered the clover not. i just cant get deer to eat clover.. maybe for a week in the fall but thats it.. way much success with rye, brassicas, soybeans.. i still think clover is a piece but a small one at least for me

 

[Tap]

trying to answer all questions in one post.. my PH is around 7.5, i have exclusion cages and no difference i mow the clover as soon as it starts blooming so there is always fresh growth coming and most of my clover plots are actually in my more remote plots i do have some in a bigger field and id see deer tracks all over the field but no browse in the clover. this year i planted 4 acres of soybeans and clover bordering it and the soybeans hammered the clover not. i just cant get deer to eat clover.. maybe for a week in the fall but thats it.. way much success with rye, brassicas, soybeans.. i still think clover is a piece but a small one at least for me

You can pretty much apply this to any aspect of plots, weeds and a few other things that we have a common interest in...What is desirable (or a troublesome weed), or a needed piece of the habitat puzzle in one region can be the exact opposite in another region...and sometimes those regions can be fairly close to each other.
If I were you, and deer were not eating my clover, I would strongly consider converting those clover plots to something else like cover... Switchgrass possibly? Ask Don Higgins what Switchgrass stands have done for his property

 

[sagittarius]

For afixing free nitrogen back in the soil, adding green manure, giving the soil a break from N loving plots and tillage, offering a change in herbicide use ...... nope, I don't think clovers are overated .... more like a requirement. But if the deer, grouse, turkeys, cranes, and rabbits eat some of it, that is ok too.

 

[yoderjac]

Another thing to consider here is your objective. Folks trying to do QDM on scale have very different goal than someone trying to improve hunting. For QDM the key is plugging holes in your BCC Bucket. This is not the case for folks that are hunting focused only. When deer are ignoring any particular food source, it is simply because there is some other food source that they deem preferential on the risk/reward scale. The most attractive and nutritious food source can be ignored by deer if they perceive the risk to access it high and a less attractive but sufficient food source is available at a perceived low risk.

For folks focused on hunting, the attractiveness of the crop, the location of the crop with respect to cover, the amount of human activity, the timing of the crop's peak, the relative attractiveness compared to other options during hunting season, are the primary factors that come into play.

For folks doing QDM, the key is figuring out when nature is stingy with quality food and providing a quality food source during that period. If nature is stingy, the food source does not need to be particularly attractive, just high quality. When deer have nothing else, they will use it. Location is less important because when food is scarce, deer will tolerate more risk.

Clover is king for QDM in most areas. That is because it provides quality food over more months of the year for a lower cost than anything else I can think of, and it is not picky about soil conditions. Once established, it can handle heavy browsing. My clover plots are not the most likely feeding locations for deer during hunting season in my area. Nature is bountiful in the fall and early winter here. On good mast crop years it is rare to see deer in the fields. Clover is the anchor of our QDM program. While it is easy to identify primary stress periods like the dead of winter and heat/drought of summer here, there are many smaller lulls that nature has that are much less obvious. Since clover is available for such long time periods it covers many of these. We still plant soybeans or some warm season annual to cover the major summer stress period when clover may be dormant. We also plant crops like turnips to cover that winter period when clover goes dormant or may become inaccessible.

If I was hunting focused, I would use clover where it worked, but it would not be my anchor. If deer were not using it during the time period I was trying to attract them, I would first look at location and human intrusion during that period, and then try another crop. I've found nothing that will pull my deer off acorns on a good mast crop year. If my focus was on QDM and deer were not using my clover, I'd do a reassessment of the foods available over the year within a 3 mile radius and try to get a better handle on local stress periods. I would also double check to make sure I'm not misreading the use of clover over the 12 month period.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[j-bird]

trying to answer all questions in one post.. my PH is around 7.5, i have exclusion cages and no difference i mow the clover as soon as it starts blooming so there is always fresh growth coming and most of my clover plots are actually in my more remote plots i do have some in a bigger field and id see deer tracks all over the field but no browse in the clover. this year i planted 4 acres of soybeans and clover bordering it and the soybeans hammered the clover not. i just cant get deer to eat clover.. maybe for a week in the fall but thats it.. way much success with rye, brassicas, soybeans.. i still think clover is a piece but a small one at least for me

Soil pH of "around 7.5".....is it maybe even higher? If so that may be an issue. Most plants (most clovers included) do best in pH of 6.0 to 7.0 - maybe as high as 7.5, but beyond that and things start to go down hill.

Also....a summertime trial of soybeans vs clover....isn't a fair fight. It's a good combo, but not as a head-to-head sort of comparison. The clover should interest the deer from green-up until the beans are planted. Once the beans sprout....clover? What clover? is what the deer are thinking. The deer will certainly focus on the fresh soybeans. Then as summer progresses most perennial cool season clovers will stall out in the heat of the summer, and the soybeans will continue to grow (as long as the deer have not wiped them out). Once the cooler temps come and the beans start to dry down the beans will loose their value and the clover will again come to life and shine. This is also a great time to over seed brassica and cereal grains into those beans to provide yet additional food.

It sounds like the deer are telling you they need at least some sort of summer forage. You have/need to respond to that need. If you need to consume some clover area to do that, then fine, but don't walk away form the clover all together. You may simply be too heavy on the cool season perennial side of the balance your area needs. That's ok - you monitor the situation and adapt as needed.

Also make sure you have enough data over at least 2 or 3 years. other environmental things can affect plot usage. Nearby logging efforts, nearby plotters, acorn crop conditions and the like all can make deer seemingly vanish and leave plots un-used.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I'm in the exact same boat and have reduced clover plantings to 1/6 of my total plots. If I would calculate total acreage of plots is would be even less that 1/6th the total.

I have sprayed a clover plot recently that I will be converting to a TNM brassica plot. What I have found doing this is that some of the clover will bounce back and there will be patches of clover mixed in with the brassica. In this case I see the clover actually getting mowed to the ground because the deer hardly touch the brassica I plant until mid Feb most years.

I can easily get 1/4 acre bean plots to produce plenty of pods.

I will also be planting a new clover plot this fall in what is a failed soybean plot. I will be planting Alice grazing white and freedom mr red clovers with oasis chicory. I am going to seed at a 60:40 rate favoring chicory because the deer have showed me they prefer chicory over clover. I basically am planting the clover for the N fixation and for a little variety.

The deer absolutely eat the clover but I have found over the years that I don't need near as much of it as what most would say you should plant.

I have been doing the plotting thing long enough to realize that what works great for some won't work at all for others. The key is to constantly be experimenting with something different to find out what YOUR deer like. Take good notes of what you plant in which plots and when you plant it along with any amendments you have made. Keep an open mind about it and always strive to learn new things. It's way to easy to just plant what others say they have good results with even when the deer are trying to tell us something else.

 

[Tree Spud]

For afixing free nitrogen back in the soil, adding green manure, giving the soil a break from N loving plots and tillage, offering a change in herbicide use ...... nope, I don't think clovers are overated .... more like a requirement. But if the deer, grouse, turkeys, cranes, and rabbits eat some of it, that is ok too.

I just disced under two 1 acre clover plots that were 3 years old. Did not spray as I wanted the green manure to increase the OM level of the soil. Over seeded with clover, PTT, GH radish, and some oats for a fall crop. Should do well because of the nitrogen.

 

[H20fwler]

I'm in the same boat as you, but I am surrounded by agriculture. The deer at my place will hit it but not like they should and usually very late through the snow. I have a beautiful clover field that hardly gets used. I am in the process of plowing half of it under for a winter plot

I'm in the same boat too, lots of ag all around me over 90% of the county here.
Deer are very finicky with clover at my place just browsing on the move rare to ever see them just standing still for any period of time eating it. Turkeys like to nibble on it and chase bugs in the plots all afternoon.
I like clover to help keep weeds down, it's good for the soil and bees and butterflies love it besides the forage for deer. Seems like deer hit chicory and brassicas much harder than clover here but that is usually just in late fall.

I will keep planting it the benefits far outweigh the cost&labor of having it.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It may be a simple as adding some sulfur. Red clovers especially benefit from it and with the low sulfur diesel fuels that are being used we are not getting the sulfur we once were every time it rained. Sulfur also reduces PH and could aslo be an issue as well. I know I dont soil test as much as I should and unless you specify most aren't even going to test for that much anyway.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Clover gets hammered at our farm. Doesn't matter what kind. They seem to like cheapo med red just as much as the Ladino's. Our clover on high ground does lose attention when it gets hot and dry but bottom ground gets good activity from March to Dec. High ground clover always bounces back with Sep rains. That 3 to 4 month clover lull can be filled with winter wheat, triticale, and rye in Mo.

 

[SD51555]

Am I the only one that thinks clover is wayyyy over rated? I've planted Reds and whites and ive planted alfalfa, they get fertilized, mowed everything and the deer hardly ever hit it.. its almost like for a deer to be out in the plot it has to be lost. i have cameras out and hardly get pictures of deer in the plots. I have no Ag around me for over 8 miles and a fairly high deer density and they will not touch it. I planted clover because everyone said it was one of the first plants to green up in the spring... this spring i determined that was a lie. I planted .5 acres of rye last fall and as soon as the soon melted it was dark green and i had 8-10 deer in the field feeding at any given time... the clover didn't green up for another 3 weeks after that.... even after i worked the rye the deer still wouldn't touch the clover. Again i apply 150 Lbs of 12-40-0 with 10 pounds of sulfur and 150 pounds of 0-0-63 and nothing, the clover grows amazing... just nothing eats it.

Up your sulfur to 40 lbs/ac before u plow any more under. I had the same problem even where food was not plentiful. I put on 42 pounds of S and the deer switched on soon as spring started and have never quit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gator]

Deer rarely stand and eat just one thing (except soybeans). With that said, maybe breaking the plot up into strips will work better. If you have a strip of clover between two rows of brassicas or similar they are probably likely to eat some clover while moving about. Just a thought.

 

[SwampCat]

I plant eagle seed beans, durana, wheat, and winter rye. Deer prefer the durana over everything and the winter rye less than anything. Experiment - not all things work the same for everyone on every piece of ground. Bachelor herd of 16 bucks lived in some durana of mine last year